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Topic: Diving into the Principles
Message: Posted by: Brad Ballew (Jan 22, 2019 01:09PM)
I have always been fascinated by the mathematical principles used in card magic. I am looking to dive a little bit deeper into these different principles and to see if there are any I've missed.

Here's what I've read up on:

The Gilbreath Principle: I have used "Up the Ante", "Mockingbird", and "Three Degrees" ... Always interested in more recommendations

Triskadequadra Principle: Very clever, and more straightforward than Gilbreath when it comes to the shuffle. I have only read about this in John Hostler's book. Has anyone else explored this principle in other literature?

Cato, Catto, Parity Principle (All the same I think?) The only one I have ever really messed with is "Degrees of Freedom", which I love. However, I would love to explore this more and find more effects that use this principle.

UnDo Influence ( A bit different from the above, but a very clever bit of handling ) I have "Try the Impossible" but nothing else that deals with this idea.

Endless Chain: I know that I have read a couple of tricks that have used this but I can't think of their names off the top of my head. One, in particular, involved divining several court cards one at a time from a shuffled deck. Doesn't necessarily have the complicated workings of some of the above, but will completely fly over a spectator's head. A simple idea that no one will ever think of.

Any other interesting principles along these lines or any new literature released on this stuff that might not be mentioned in the older threads?
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jan 22, 2019 02:00PM)
The Gerats Principle by by Ferry Gerats
http://www.lybrary.com/the-gerats-principle-p-892786.html
Message: Posted by: saxonia (Jan 22, 2019 02:50PM)
A great source is the book "Card Concepts" which covers exactly this topic.

Its contents is listed at https://magicref.net/magicbooks/booksjr/mactierarthurcardconcepts.htm

Another good source (and much cheaper) is "Magical Mathematics" by Persi Diaconis and Ron Graham.
Message: Posted by: saxonia (Jan 22, 2019 02:54PM)
I forget to mention Colm Mulcahy's "Mathematical Card Magic". It also includes a section on the Triskadequadra principle.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jan 23, 2019 05:52AM)
[quote]On Jan 22, 2019, saxonia wrote:
I forget to mention Colm Mulcahy's "Mathematical Card Magic". It also includes a section on the Triskadequadra principle. [/quote]And his book
Colm Mulcahy: "New Mathematical Principles Applied to Card Tricks"
Message: Posted by: Brad Ballew (Feb 3, 2019 02:29PM)
So I think I may have found my new favorite Gilbreath trick:

"The Lone Stranger" - The Card Magic of Nick Trost

I made a couple of tweaks to keep almost completely hands off. I also have a better motivation for removing the 2 cards and the spectator is the one who does it. The 2 removed cards come back in play at the end so it doesn't seem like they were removed for no real reason.

In fact the only time the performer handles any cards in my version is when he gets his half of the deck at the end.

I think this trick is a real miracle when you keep it completely hands off. I can't see how anyone would be able to even begin to wrap their head around it.
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Feb 4, 2019 06:48AM)
In my Magica 1-4 books I haved developed some terrific effects using the Chinese Remainder Theorem.
[url=www.barnowskymagic.com]Click here for more info[/url]
Message: Posted by: Hushai (Feb 10, 2019 01:58AM)
How about the Automatic Placement? John Bannon's book Destination Zero has some great tricks using this principle. Also see Rick Lax's "Where It Has to Go" available from Penguin. And tricks in Karl Fulves's "Self-Working Card Tricks" books, such as "Hidden Power" in My Best Self-Working Card Tricks. And Peter Duffie's "Psychic Math" in his book Cards Insight.
Message: Posted by: Brad Ballew (Feb 18, 2019 10:34AM)
I was messing around with one of my favorite principles yesterday and sort of stumbled upon a new effect... well new to me at least. I haven't seen this anywhere else... yet. I am calling it the "Anti Card Trick" It's a methodical, precise trick that takes place completely in the spectator's hands. It's very direct and impossible. There is no way anyone could backtrack it or figure out how it's done unless they were pretty familiar with this principle... and this is not a principle well known among lay people. In fact, the only other way I could see this effect being achieved would be to use a confederate. This is exactly what I love about these types of effects/principles. When utilized right, they can create something utterly impossible.

I am going to work on it more and perform for a while and may share it in the secret area once it's been road tested. This is my 50th post, so now I can finally visit the secret area. :-)
Message: Posted by: Hushai (Feb 19, 2019 09:58PM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, Brad Ballew wrote:
I was messing around with one of my favorite principles yesterday and sort of stumbled upon a new effect... well new to me at least. I haven't seen this anywhere else... yet. I am calling it the "Anti Card Trick" It's a methodical, precise trick that takes place completely in the spectator's hands. It's very direct and impossible. There is no way anyone could backtrack it or figure out how it's done unless they were pretty familiar with this principle... and this is not a principle well known among lay people. In fact, the only other way I could see this effect being achieved would be to use a confederate. This is exactly what I love about these types of effects/principles. When utilized right, they can create something utterly impossible.

I am going to work on it more and perform for a while and may share it in the secret area once it's been road tested. This is my 50th post, so now I can finally visit the secret area. :-) [/quote]
Sounds great! I would love to know more.
Message: Posted by: Brad Ballew (Feb 20, 2019 08:10PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2019, Hushai wrote:

Sounds great! I would love to know more. [/quote]

I'll be showing it to some pro card guys tonight, so it will interesting to see if they can catch on to the method.

I had an epiphany today that I could add another layer of shuffling before the card is selected. Not a controlled shuffle but a genuine do whatever you want shuffle. This addition might even make it hard for people who know the principle.

It still needs road testing but I can't wait to share this once it's been through a good vetting. :-)
Message: Posted by: captainsmiffy (Mar 5, 2019 08:22AM)
Brad, I would also be very interested to hear of what you have come up with at some point. Please keep us posted.

Best

Martyn Smith
Message: Posted by: Ben Blau (Mar 21, 2019 09:32AM)
Both of my books, as well as Unfazed, contain quite a bit of this sort of thing.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Apr 26, 2019 02:36PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2019, Ben Blau wrote:
Both of my books, as well as Unfazed, contain quite a bit of this sort of thing. [/quote]

In terms of application of these types of concepts, Ben Blau's work definitely has some great approaches. A few of which were very reminiscent of John Bannon, who has also been mentioned here. Going back to Ben Blau, for example, his 12th of Never (I believe that is the name) is a great combination of principles many people may be familiar with but with a great premise and approach.

If you are more interested in the nature of the math principles themselves, this is a book on theory, giving some examples how it is applied in magic:
Magical Mathematics: The Mathematical Ideas That Animate Great Magic Tricks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691169772
Message: Posted by: maratekin (Apr 26, 2019 09:05PM)
Where can I find “New Mathematical Principles Applied to Card Tricks"?

Thanks -

Mark
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Oct 28, 2019 08:30AM)
In Magica V, I have effects using Proizvolov's Identity, Chinese Remainder Theorem, Gilbreath Principle, and Hummer's CATO Principle.
More info [url=http://www.barnowskymagic.com/MagicaV.html]at this site[/url]
Message: Posted by: blackstone99 (Nov 14, 2019 07:02PM)
Excellent book. Best use of some of these principle in magic.

Paul
Message: Posted by: alea (Feb 16, 2021 04:40PM)
[quote]On Feb 18, 2019, Brad Ballew wrote:
I was messing around with one of my favorite principles yesterday and sort of stumbled upon a new effect... well new to me at least. I haven't seen this anywhere else... yet. I am calling it the "Anti Card Trick" It's a methodical, precise trick that takes place completely in the spectator's hands. It's very direct and impossible. There is no way anyone could backtrack it or figure out how it's done unless they were pretty familiar with this principle... and this is not a principle well known among lay people. In fact, the only other way I could see this effect being achieved would be to use a confederate. This is exactly what I love about these types of effects/principles. When utilized right, they can create something utterly impossible.

I am going to work on it more and perform for a while and may share it in the secret area once it's been road tested. This is my 50th post, so now I can finally visit the secret area. :-) [/quote]

Great! According to your description it looks like a diabolical principle!!
Where did you find it ?