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Topic: Combo cups and balls routine
Message: Posted by: Kanawati (Feb 9, 2019 08:27PM)
Hi everyone. In a previous post someone asked about a combo set vs standard cups. Iíve had the same combo set since I was a teenager and Iím now 50. I suspect they are an inexpensive brand of cups but back then I didnít think the props were cheap! Hereís a new routine Iíve recently been working on. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QT7i7Ryx1c8
A key influence is Tommy Wonder and that last bit was from Johnny Ace Palmer. A couple of ideas in handling are my own. Itís a work in progress. Iíd welcome any feedback on how my routine, script or handling can be improved. Many thanks🙂 John
Message: Posted by: funsway (Feb 10, 2019 02:22AM)
You are offering some interesting things here - perhaps too many for a single routine. Who is the intended audience?

I always like the "unexpected results" or "magic is in control, not me" approach. The repeat adds a "Thematic Interlude" that is great.

At first viewing I thought that some sequences presume an audience with experience with C&B. Of review, I am not sure what today's audience will appreciate.

While most all of the moves can be accomplished without the gaff, its inclusion obviously makes it easier.
In balance, the handling of putting the ball in then immediately out seems "out of rhythm" - but possibly only to the magician's eye.

I have some other thoughts not suitable for an open forum. Write me ken@eversway.com if you wish. I might even send you a copy of "ChopSIgn" that has some ideas you might employ.

Regardless, your creative efforts will have their own reward no matter how this routine evolves.

A last thought is that an extra ball can be idled in a Chop gaff for later use (asynchronous) rather than immediate reveal.
One result can be the the ability to reenforce the idea that only two cups and two balls are in play with both hands shown empty.
This is not possible with a standard set. The "was empty - now a ball" unload feature never has to be used directly.

Not to say your handling isn't exciting - just priming the pump.
Message: Posted by: Kanawati (Feb 10, 2019 04:38PM)
Hi Ken, Many thanks for taking the time to provide feedback. I'm trying to develop this for a lay audience so I really appreciate the points you made. I also enjoy the magic is out of control type presentation. I hear what you are saying about the out of rhythm move. I'll see if I can set those moments up using a handling that's more consistent with the rest of the routine. John
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Feb 12, 2019 04:34PM)
I think your idea is very good in general, but I found certain parts of the routine confusing because you work at high speed without pausing when something different than expected happened. I think you need to hold on and wait for the people to realize "the ball was suppose to be here and it is not" or vice-versa.
The first egg is nice, but because you did not show that the cups were empty, people will assume the egg was already in the cup, maybe a flustration move could help at the beginning (Mendoza and Ouellet do it very well, they are in youtube). The egg idea of showing up from time to time is very good, I like it.
Another example, when the 2 balls penetrate the cups and show up on the top (Tommy Wonder's move), the script should have said when you were covering the balls "the cups are used to keep the ball underneath or hidden but sometimes they managed to show up", and you do your move showing the balls on top. You did said something similar but when the balls were already on the top of the cups, so you lost the timing impact that the script could enhanced it.
Also I think in 2 instances you loaded from the back of the cup, and that raised suspicious, I would preferred to load from the front

In net, I think your routine and idea is very good, I enjoyed watching it, I think you should slow down and let the people see the magic, and maybe an adjustment in the script to help with what is going on, (without telling exactly what is going on)

Hope it helps
Message: Posted by: Kanawati (Feb 12, 2019 11:46PM)
Hi pabloinus, I really appreciate the feedback. With a couple of other routines, I've also been told to slow it down a bit and let the magical moments sink in more. Based on what you and Ken have said, I've already started making some adjustments to the routine. John
Message: Posted by: Paul R (Feb 21, 2019 07:05AM)
I really enjoyed that! I think you have some lovely ideas in there. I would agree with the suggestion above that you need to make sure you acknowledge applause points and allow the audience a time to take a breathe, but also recognise that that is a very difficult ask infront of a camera rather than a live audience. With a little more work on the scripting that provides some stronger motivation for some of the events I think you have a great routine. I'll be honest, I've never really worked with C&B before, I've played with a Ch*p cup, but you've inspired me to investigate further, and develop something in my style. Keep it up!
Message: Posted by: Hookem (Feb 27, 2019 01:24AM)
John, I like the work you have done. Like others, I found myself confused at certain points. I have found over the years it helps to slow down to make sure the audience is with you (and when you do, they will applaud if they're fooled). Lots of stuff is happening and you're moving along at a brisk pace. One small point: Why leave the egg in the background? It's clutter to the eye. If you need to leave it on the table, get it off the mat and place it to the side.
Message: Posted by: Wx4usa (Feb 27, 2019 05:42AM)
Very nice routine. I think with the adjustments Ken and pabloinus made, you have a great routine and thanks so much for sharing, I enjoyed it!
Message: Posted by: Kanawati (Feb 27, 2019 07:05AM)
Paul, Hookem and Wx4usa, Really appreciate your feedback! And glad you liked it! I recently performed this at my local IBM magic club and received a little more feedback. I think itís still a work in progress. There is at least one original move that Iím fond of but I know the rhythm and pace of the routine could be improved. A bit stilted to me. I think I need to be more natural and smooth in my moves. Iíll keep working on the script too. Iím glad you guys are telling me to slow it down because Iím not a good judge of my own speed. I was initially actually worried it was dragging out! And that I wasnít doing enough in terms of creating those magical moments! Thanks again for giving me some ideas and suggestions to work on. Iíve really been enjoying the process of trying to develop this. John
Message: Posted by: baronborrelli (Apr 11, 2019 11:22AM)
I prefer the standard set, made from wood; but I also have a metal chop/cup set. I have a very standard routine. Feedback would be appreciated.

For a chop cup, I like the leather type where you roll it up and snap it together. travels nice!