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Topic: LANCE Burton ON NBC
Message: Posted by: sc24evr (May 11, 2004 09:59PM)
Lance Burton will be on the tonight show tonight (tuesday night) incase anyone cares to watch.
Message: Posted by: xformer7 (May 12, 2004 08:32AM)
Thanks for making me stay up until 12:30 last night ;)
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 12:03PM)
I hate the card trick he performed. It is overdone in Vegas, as in most shows perform it. What is it called anyway?
Message: Posted by: Bill Beach (May 12, 2004 12:31PM)
It's called "Phil", sold at many magic dealers. The card Lance showed last night he had named "Bill". Coincidence?

Bill Beach
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 12:38PM)
I saw Steve Dacri perform this trick at his Vegas show, and I was disappointed and the laypeople around me were even more so disappointed. Terrible.
Message: Posted by: S.Segal (May 12, 2004 01:28PM)
I have performed "Phil" numerous times to great reactions... Weird...

S.Segal
Message: Posted by: Danny Diamond (May 12, 2004 01:33PM)
I missed the performance, can somebody explain the effect to me?
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 01:37PM)
It just isn't amazing. It is an average run of the mill trick. My wife (a lay woman) can't stand seeing that trick performed, and she left when Burton pulled it out.
Message: Posted by: xformer7 (May 12, 2004 01:54PM)
It would be interesting to understand how Mr. Burton decided on that effect. "Let's see....I'm going to be on national television with time for one close-up effect. Which one trick can I do that will blow the nation away.....hmmmmm.....think I'll go with 'Bill'."

On the other hand, I was amazed at his first illusion. I can't figure out how he was able to replace the silicon with helium.
Message: Posted by: Bill Beach (May 12, 2004 02:33PM)
A-HAH! The old silicon/helium switch! So that's how she levitated! I would have figured it out eventually.

Bill Beach
Message: Posted by: xformer7 (May 12, 2004 03:06PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 13:31, hdoctor wrote:
It's called "Phil", sold at many magic dealers. The card Lance showed last night he had named "Bill". Coincidence?

Bill Beach
[/quote]

I wonder if this effect can be adapted for a card named "Jill?"
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 03:26PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 14:54, xformer7 wrote:
It would be interesting to understand how Mr. Burton decided on that effect. "Let's see....I'm going to be on national television with time for one close-up effect. Which one trick can I do that will blow the nation away.....hmmmmm.....think I'll go with 'Bill'."

On the other hand, I was amazed at his first illusion. I can't figure out how he was able to replace the silicon with helium.


[/quote]

LoL. I didn't get it at first (I am a bit slow), but man...thanks for the good laugh!


Yes, why would he have chosen this effect to go before MILLIONS of people? He has so many other great effects. Heck, even the invisible deck would have been ten times better than that.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Lozoff (May 12, 2004 03:35PM)
[quote]
Heck, even the invisible deck would have been ten times better than that.
[/quote]

"Even" the Invisible Deck? How could any card trick be better than that? That would have been a great choice for Burton, but he probably felt it was too common in magician's circles to get any respect with it. Got to hand it to Blaine, who's courageous enough to only care what laypeople think of him.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 03:47PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 16:35, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
[quote]
Heck, even the invisible deck would have been ten times better than that.
[/quote]

"Even" the Invisible Deck? How could any card trick be better than that? That would have been a great choice for Burton, but he probably felt it was too common in magician's circles to get any respect with it. Got to hand it to Blaine, who's courageous enough to only care what laypeople think of him.
[/quote]

I agree.

Maybe Lance Burton needs a magic counsellor to help him pick out tricks....

I should make a resume.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 12, 2004 03:47PM)
The "Phil trick" is a version of the classic "Oscar" effect. "Phil" however uses a different method.

The effect is a killer one, notwithstanding your wife's reactions. It has been a feature in many magicians acts and various versions of the effect have fooled coutless of audiences, both laymen and magician alike.

Like with so many of these tricks, few performers give proper thought to how to maximize the effect's impact. So we have people learning from having watched those who do not understand the trick properly.

I would not discount the power of this effect.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 03:49PM)
That is the thing....it does fool people. Maybe sometimes it does....but the times I have seen it...it didn't fool hardly anyone.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 12, 2004 03:56PM)
Then I would say the performer is not doing something correct. If indeed the PHIL deck was in use, I find it curious how a layperson could surmise the actual working. If the original Trost method was in use, I have a hard time seeing how a payperson would suspect such a strategem. And if the "fred" variation was employed, I KNOW the layperson would not catch on as too many trick use the principle successfully.

Why do you think it has failed on the occasions you have seen it do so?
Message: Posted by: kenny kadabra (May 12, 2004 03:57PM)
I bought "phil" from Mr Roy Walton's shop in Glasgow 4 weeks ago, I decided to take myself for a pint of beer on the next street to the shop. I opened it up,read the instructions, played with it a bit, loved it.Two pints later, the guy at the next table was very curious and asked what I was doing, as only a friendly Glaswegian would do,I said "my name's Kenny" what's yours? yes you guessed it "Phil" was the reply! What a guy to try it out on for the first time eh? Kenny
Message: Posted by: Gianni (May 12, 2004 04:33PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 16:49, Astinus wrote:
That is the thing....but the times I have seen it...it didn't fool hardly anyone.
[/quote]

Astinus: are you really saying that your wife figured this out? Or laymen figure this out? I can't imagine more than 1% of spectators figuring this out if they see it performed.

Gianni
Message: Posted by: sc24evr (May 12, 2004 05:02PM)
What about the lev, what do you guys think of that, I'm still pondering methods.
Message: Posted by: Eight Spades (May 12, 2004 05:10PM)
It's a pretty standard levitation in stage shows. He did it very well, but it was nothing new.

I made another post about this and I'm glad to find there are people here that agree with me. It was a pretty lame choice for a card effect. I personally just don't like how corny it is, but it also is just a sad choice when you have the attention of the nation. Maybe it's just what he was comfortable with though.

-Christian
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 12, 2004 05:28PM)
It isn't that hard of an effect to solve...And I think that is why the wife did it. Plus, through experience in my methods, she probably figured it out.

My point is...it could be the most advanced and mysterious technique ever....but it is still just a STUPID trick.
Message: Posted by: Payne (May 12, 2004 05:44PM)
The Oscar trick is one of the only card tricks I do and I have never failed to absolutely kill with it.
I feel that it is far stronger than the invisible deck as well ands if I had to choose between the two Oscar would win evertime. If I had a single trick to perform on Television again Oscar would most like be what I would choose
Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make it a bad trick.
Frankly I hate most card tricks but that doesn't impede magicians from doing them, nor should it.
Message: Posted by: ashah (May 12, 2004 06:18PM)
I just read a description of the Oscar trick online. If the effect is what I read, I would say it's one heck of a miracle.
Message: Posted by: Chris Berry (May 12, 2004 06:40PM)
[quote]Heck, even the invisible deck would have been ten times better than that[/quote]


Actually Lance made a VERY good decision. HOW many magic shops are there in Vegas?

HOW many people do you think that deck is pitched too while they are in the area? I bet you a TON.

I think Lance weighed the options and went with Phil for a good reason.


Chris
Message: Posted by: ABlair36 (May 12, 2004 06:45PM)
I don't know for sure about Phil being a good idea, but I completely agree with not using the invisible deck.
Another reason is that how many people do you think would say "oh, David Blaine did that."
I would of hated that.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (May 12, 2004 06:56PM)
I've been thinking about the tricks mentioned, and if it isn't too tangential, how about deconstructing the Oscar effect (not methodology) a bit.

Essential Oscar and the invisible deck are the same effects. Spectator names a card and that card is seen to be altered. (Or spectator names one card which was previously identified be being altered). In the case of Oscar, the alteration is in the writing. In the Invsible Deck (well, ultra mental deck, to be correct) the card is seen to be reversed. It would seem to me that the writing would be a greater puzzler than a reversal, which could be more readily accomplished in the spectator's mind via some sort of sleight of hand.

So it seems to me, that phenomenologically, Oscar would be the more deceptive trick from a spectator rationalization point of view. (Likewise, Brainwave would be a greater puzzler as not only is the card reversed, but it came from an entirely different pack).

As to the corny-ness of it all, I know many audience members find the notion of handling "invisible cards" to be insulting and stupid. Now, when Don Alan performed it, he could make it fly.

I think, in thr right performer's hands, the notion of names on cards could be quite charming. Marlo had a handling of this effect which was both charming and funny. But I can't see how named cards are corny, but asking a spectator to believe in invisible cards isn't.

Thoughts?
Message: Posted by: twistedace (May 12, 2004 07:00PM)
Is the Oscar trick the same as Erma la Force on the Close video? If it is...I really love the trick BUT it's not practical for the walkaround performer.
Message: Posted by: Bob Johnston (May 12, 2004 07:10PM)
I get the decided impression that some posters on this thread assume that Lance selects tricks based on what magicians and want-to-bes would find impressive.

That would be an odd way for him to select a trick to do on late night TV. Some must think he is a sucsessful professional magician by chance, just a fluke. He probably has a hard time finding work.

Bob
Message: Posted by: MacGyver (May 12, 2004 07:43PM)
[quote]I wonder if this effect can be adapted for a card named "Jill?"[/quote]


Actually Marlo has a variation where the trick is done with female names, buried away in some of his later work.....

I heard he also experimented doing it with pet names, but never performed it.... You can find it in his later work too though.
Message: Posted by: C Christian (May 12, 2004 07:56PM)
Phil is a great trick I dare say the words, "To a lay audience it is a jaw dropper" and since The Tonight show caters to everyone around the world not just magicians I feel the the effect was strong and probably made a handful of magicians want to go out and buy it. My two cents worth Chris
Message: Posted by: JordanB (May 12, 2004 08:40PM)
I thought the performance was good. I mean, Lance Burton has a lot of experience as a performer and I would never knock his sleight of hand (his dove act is superb). Anyway, just my 2.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Godsey (May 12, 2004 10:00PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 16:47, truthteller wrote:
The "Phil trick" is a version of the classic "Oscar" effect. "Phil" however uses a different method.
[/quote]

I learned this trick from Don Alan roughly 40 years ago. Don Alan called it "Clyde" and, if I am not mistaken, he performed it on the Tonight Show sometime in the 1960's.
Message: Posted by: Richard Lucas (May 12, 2004 10:20PM)
Oh COME ON GUYS! Leave the poor guy alone.

He did the best he could with such little time. His levitaiton illustion is superb,and Lance seemes like an extremely likeable person, smiling the whole time and giving Pamela honors. The only thing to critize is that Leno did not give him the time he deserved - he was probably scheduled for more time but The Tonight Show has been notorious for short-timing guests going way back to Johnn Carson who often ran out of time and left a poor guest hanging. Of course if this were on Carson's show he would not have short-timed.

As we all know, it is not the age of the trick or the trick itself, but the presentation - IM(not so HO)Lance did a great job,and I liked him as a person.

So there!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 12, 2004 10:23PM)
Sounds like a WHOLE LOT OF SOUR GRAPES on this thread tonight.
Message: Posted by: geemack (May 12, 2004 11:09PM)
Like Glenn, I had the pleasure of learning "Clyde" from Don Alan, although I don't personally remember seeing him do it on the Carson/Tonight Show. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the effect over the years. As with most effects, it seems to fit some people's presentation style much better than others. Burton's presentation seemed a bit rushed, and I felt it was a bit weak because of that. But in the right hands it can be a pretty solid effect for laymen.

As for the levitation... I never saw the silicon/helium switch either, and I didn't take my eyes off 'em for a second.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Chris Berry (May 12, 2004 11:09PM)
Richard, I HIGHLY agree with you.

I think Lance did excellent. Everyone needs to remember, he didn't do it for magicians. Whine all you guys want, he did a great job.

Of course I might seem a bit biased, Lance has been my favorite magician since I was little.


Chris
Message: Posted by: RayBanks (May 13, 2004 08:38AM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 20:10, Wellington wrote:
I get the decided impression that some posters on this thread assume that Lance selects tricks based on what magicians and want-to-bes would find impressive.


[/quote]

Absolutely correct. Almost 12,000 members here and at least 11,500 of them think fooling magicians is what it's all about!

As for why did Lance pick this trick? Well, it was good, he did it well, it worked and, probably more importantly, it was quick.

Is it a better trick than ID? I don't think so, but I am a big ID fan. ID doesn't work well in the setting he was in. And it is too long.

Did I figure the effect out? Well, I figured out one way to do it. I don't know if it was the way that Lance did it, but it works for me (with a little more practice).
Message: Posted by: rickmagic1 (May 13, 2004 08:49AM)
If I'm not mistaken, Don performed "Clyde" on the Mike Douglas show.

Rick
Message: Posted by: Richard Lucas (May 13, 2004 11:13AM)
I could not figure it out, but then again, I'm not a smart man.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (May 13, 2004 01:17PM)
The levitation was great...

But I am still against his choice of card "effect". I was bored and not amazed...as well as the many other people that watched it in which I have spoken.

I just feel he could have done a LOT better...he is the "master magician" after all.
Message: Posted by: Chris Berry (May 13, 2004 01:33PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-13 14:17, Astinus wrote:
I just feel he could have done a LOT better...he is the "master magician" after all.[/quote]


Yes, but not "Master Magician for Magicians."


Chris
Message: Posted by: Payne (May 13, 2004 01:50PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-13 14:17, Astinus wrote:
The levitation was great...

But I am still against his choice of card "effect". I was bored and not amazed...as well as the many other people that watched it in which I have spoken.

I just feel he could have done a LOT better...he is the "master magician" after all.


[/quote]

Well when you get on Leno you can do whatever trick you want to.
Message: Posted by: M-Illusion (May 13, 2004 01:55PM)
It's funny that people mention the Invisible Deck...when he initially started to go into his close-up segment, I thought he was going to do that.

I don't think his choice of effect was that bad, sure he could have chosen something more powerful...but then again, it really seemed to impress the audience.

I've never used that one in a professional situation, but tried it out once during a sales pitch meeting for a show. It got a pretty good reaction and I got the show, so I guess it's just one of those things that depends on the person.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (May 14, 2004 09:28PM)
(Let us not forget that the card trick was just a little something extra for the 'bit.' The main part of the appearance was the Levitation; which was great. I'm sorry if some of you didn't like the card trick, but Leno seemed to like it.)