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Topic: How to create an irresistable magic offer
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 2, 2019 03:11AM)
One fundamental rule in all business is that you should never use price to differentiate yourself from your competitors. If you canít be the cheapest magician in town, thereís no point in being the second cheapest. Also, you donít ever want to be the cheapest magician in town. Itís the worst way of doing business.

So, where does that leave you?

How do you attract clients without lowering your prices?

Think about this for example. If you want to buy a magic trick, like Card-toon by Dan Harlan, you probably go to your favorite magic dealer and look at the price. Letís say it costs $12. You could, of course, search other dealers and perhaps get it for $10, or less.

But what if I told you that I could sell you Card-toon for $35, and you would be happy to buy from me (note, Iím not selling this, itís just an example).

How could this be possible?

Well, instead of lowering the price, Iím going to increase the value.

When you buy Card-toon from me, I will also give you 5 complete routines with scripts (20$ value), a recorded interview with Dan Harlan where he shares 5 secrets about the trick ($20 value ), 30 minutes of additional video training ($15 value) and personal support from me, should you need help with the trick ($45 value). The total value of my offer is $100. What would that be worth to you? Does $35 sound too bad now?

Do you see how you could change a product into an offer simply by adding more value?

You can do the same thing with your magic business. Instead of selling a product (be it mingle magic, a kids party show, etc.) you should sell an offer.

Try to bundle as much value as possible into your offer and present it to your potential clients.

Some of you might think that you should charge extra for this. But thatís the beauty of it allÖyou ARE charging extra, youíre just not presenting it like that.

You DONíT tell your client that you can personalize the trick for the birthday boy, for an extra $25, you simply bundle that value into your total offer, and charge accordingly.

When people feel theyíre getting more value than what they have to pay, price becomes irrelevant.

Your thoughts on this?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 2, 2019 08:55AM)
Sounds too much like late night infomercial to me. Maybe it is effective, but I would never associate myself or my business that way.

It also assumes people are dumb enough to fall for it. I don't like that feel. Too much used car salesman in it for me.
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Apr 2, 2019 09:59AM)
The key to getting an asking fee is to be worth it, in terms of perceived quality and uniqness.

I the OPís example, there is significant time and cost risk in producing all the add onís without knowing if there is a market for it. Itís not enough to just create what you believe to be valuable, put your price worth on it and then believe it leads to high volume sales. There is a reason CardToon sells at the low price point that it does. I realize this was just one example, but the point is that the creation of value needs to be part of a larger business model discussion. There are ton of successful entertainers who have a basic selling model and changing it could damage sales due to their current business model. Changing one aspect, without reconstructing their business model throws the whole thing off. Itís like Walmart transitioning to a boutique style store to increase their profit margin. How crazy would that seem?
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 2, 2019 04:29PM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
It also assumes people are dumb enough to fall for it. I don't like that feel. Too much used car salesman in it for me. [/quote]

It has nothing to do with people being smart or dumb, it's about how we perceive things as humans.

[quote]On Apr 2, 2019, charliecheckers wrote:
The key to getting an asking fee is to be worth it, in terms of perceived quality and uniqness.[/quote]

Yes, exactly!

[quote] Itís like Walmart transitioning to a boutique style store to increase their profit margin. How crazy would that seem?[/quote]

But Walmart is heavily focused on price, that's their thing. They buy in bulk and cut prices. If you have a store, you can't compete with that. Then it could make sense to change your business model since you cannot be cheaper than Walmart.

If anyone wants their business model to be focused on price alone, that's fine. I just think there's a better way.

Let's say you're a parent looking for a magician for your child's birthday. You ask two magicians for a quote.

Magician A will provide a 40-minute magic show for kids for $50
Magician B will provide a 20-minute show for kids, then make balloon animals for the children and finally, as a finale, do a special trick with the birthday boy. All this for $80. Total time 40 minutes.

Which magician do you think the parent will hire (note: I have no clue on the actual rates for a birthday magician in the US...think of this as an example)?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 2, 2019 04:48PM)
Yea maybe this will work for birthday parties. I have no idea.

But I said it is about how you are perceived as a person. I do not want to be perceived the way this silly idea would result in. Again too much late night infomercial and used car salesman like.

NOTHING wrong with either of those things. I just don't want to seem like either one.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 2, 2019 05:01PM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
But I said it is about how you are perceived as a person. I do not want to be perceived the way this silly idea would result in.
[/quote]

And that's the beauty of free speech and good forums...we don't have to agree on everything...but we can still have a constructive conversation about it.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 2, 2019 11:01PM)
No doubt.

I am not a fan of affiliate programs. I am not a fan of so much of the "guru" stuff out there. Others are and that is just as valid a position to take. What one thinks works, another will simply dislike.
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Apr 3, 2019 09:24AM)
I think it is good to consider various business models and ways to offer value. For me, I see the real opportunity being tied to offering a better base product in the markets where I compete. That means offering talent and a unique performance. In reality, anyone can add balloon animals, gifts for children, or specific upsellll props, so doing so only gets you so far and can actually detract from the perceived value in certain cases. Getting the client to hire you for your reputation lands you further ahead than any bundling strategy. That doesnít mean one should not consider the broader offering potential, beyond the performance, it only means everything should be considered from a branding and image perspective - not just simply trying to ďadd valueĒ.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 3, 2019 09:35AM)
Charlie EXACTLY. ANYONE can add value just by adding things others can add like balloon animals and such. All it does is give you more things to be compared to that others do exactly the same. It does nothing to make one stand out as a reason they should be hired as opposed to another.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 3, 2019 09:46AM)
Lol, like Dany said it sounds like a late night infomercial. But wait, there's more!.... And if you book right away, you'll also get....
Act now and receive our Special Bonus Offer - get a second additional one and you only pay for shipping!

That's two performances, plus balloon animals, plus a half hour of close-up magic all for the low price of $XXX, and we'll even let you pay with our Extended Payment Plan - that's right, only $9.97 a month for 60 months, and best of all - No Credit Needed, Now Money Down.

For only $9.95 a month you can give your kids memories of a lifetime! Act Now!

(And next year you can do it for your other kid too!)
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 3, 2019 09:49AM)
I think Charliechecker's makes a great point about "just trying to add value." There are different types of value and your real value should align with your business model, positioning, and branding.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 3, 2019 11:28AM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2019, AndreJ wrote:

Well, instead of lowering the price, Iím going to increase the value.

When you buy Card-toon from me, I will also give you 5 complete routines with scripts (20$ value), a recorded interview with Dan Harlan where he shares 5 secrets about the trick ($20 value ), 30 minutes of additional video training ($15 value) and personal support from me, should you need help with the trick ($45 value). The total value of my offer is $100. What would that be worth to you? Does $35 sound too bad now?
[/quote]

and

[quote]Let's say you're a parent looking for a magician for your child's birthday. You ask two magicians for a quote.

Magician A will provide a 40-minute magic show for kids for $50
Magician B will provide a 20-minute show for kids, then make balloon animals for the children and finally, as a finale, do a special trick with the birthday boy. All this for $80. Total time 40 minutes.[/quote]

I've seen this in advertising copy before. I have multiple show packages on my website, but I never break down the "value" of certain components.

Three problems that I see with this approach are:

1) You give a valuation to certain items / services that is not the same valuation that the customer sees.

2) You offer to include add-ons / services that the customer doesn't really want included when buying from you.

3) When you put value on certain items / services, by breaking them down into components, people ask if they can just buy certain components rather than the full package.

For example (for 3), no, I'm not interested in doing ONLY 10-15 minutes of balloons at your child's birthday party for $50, even though birthday option #1 is a 30-minute magic show for $200, and birthday option #2 is a 30-minute magic show followed by 10-15 minutes of balloons for $250.

My minimum fee for an hour of balloon twisting (or portion of an hour) is $200. I ended up putting that somewhere on my site because I was tired of people asking me to do 15-30 minutes of balloons at a child's birthday party, because they thought they could get it for lower than my magic show fee. I also solved this by including balloon twisting of some sort in all of my birthday show packages.

(BTW, I get non-birthday customers who hire me for an hour of balloon twisting, by itself or in addition to a magic show. But for birthday customers, I simply created show options that included some sort of balloon twisting, and that's usually for a shorter time frame because it's a smaller group size.)

One more thought - the solution to the debate of a customer choosing between Magician A and Magician B for their child's birthday, is to actually be Magician A offering options A, B, and C, so the customer has choices. And also being either the magician the child or parent wants (if the customer has seen or heard of you before), or providing enough proof / evidence of your quality and reliability (if the customer hasn't seen or heard of you before).

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 3, 2019 07:24PM)
Great points Donald. The thing with this is it doesn't really create a win-win situation. It may be a win for the performer of they take this "package", but it can also be the very thing that prevents someone form booking you.

To play devil's advocate here, it is not necessarily a win for the client. If they aren't interested in balloons or closeup or whatever you have "bundled" they may feel they are being steered away from what they actually wanted and pushed to take things they really didn't feel they wanted or needed.

To this type of a client, an ala carte list of services may be more applicable. Yes, you should let them know of your additional services and their availability but they may be more interested and satisfied if they can pick and choose what they want to kind of create their own "bundle." This would be a quite easy sell, and they may feel it much more of a win and more to their choices/interests, while not devaluing your services individually.

Still you must be care not to devalue each of the items, which is always the concern with "bundles."

A happy, satisfed customer should always be your #1 priority. That will result in mor eadditional profits than forced packages.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 3, 2019 11:19PM)
How many have been frustrated by chain restaurants that won't let you have salad instead of soup? They "bundled " it one way and that is the deal.

I think it is an idea that may work for some but is very problematic.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 4, 2019 12:02AM)
I know this will likely be taken the wrong way but I am not sure kids performers always truly understand the needs of these clients and what they truly want. They more or less operate from "this is what I offer" or "this is what you need," which is something that always can only be minimally effective.

For example, talk to many kids performers on what the top concern of parents planning their kid's party is and they will tell you it is usually price. This is actually incorrect, yet since its what many kids party magicians believe it becomes the position they operate from, correct or not. I think this "bundling" happens much in the same way.

The very same thing happened to me on Monday as Danny mentioned. I ordered breakfast in a restaurant but asked if I could have a pancake in stread or toast or muffin. They said no they couldn't substitute it. I asked why not and they explained because pancakes are more expensive than the toast or muffin. She said I can get you a short stack side for a small extra charge. I decided I wasn't interested but asked what that charge was. She said $6! So not only did she talk me out of it, but she ended up with a dissatisfied customer. It could have cost them my business, her a better tip, and most of all an unsatisfied customer (I should say I am also a regular there - very regular. I probably spend $200-$300 a year there and they can't substitute a single pancake (all I asked for)? Again, is this really good business?

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well. I think the topic of this thread closely applies under this topic as well.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 08:59AM)
[quote]On Apr 4, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well. [/quote]

It might be that my english is a little off, but that is the essence of my post. There are many ways to make the client experience better (lowering the price could be one) and my point is that when you find the clients pain points, and becomes the solution to them, price doesn't matter.

That's why a bundle could be more effective since you solve multiple problems for your client. It's NOT about selling stuff they don't want or need.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 8, 2019 09:19AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, AndreJ wrote:
[quote]On Apr 4, 2019, Mindpro wrote:

One of the things I speak on to corporate clients is the difference between Customer Service and the Customer Experience. I see many entertainers that struggle with this as well. [/quote]

It might be that my english is a little off, but that is the essence of my post. There are many ways to make the client experience better (lowering the price could be one) and my point is that when you find the clients pain points, and becomes the solution to them, price doesn't matter.

That's why a bundle could be more effective since you solve multiple problems for your client. It's NOT about selling stuff they don't want or need. [/quote]

I understand and appreciate your perspectives but, it comes off as a lot of today's "guru speak." One of the big guru things is "to find your prospects pain points - solve these problems and walla, you are their magical (forgive the pun) solution man/provider." While there is something to this to a point, most people take this grossly out of context. In operating this way, they are always looking for some negativity (pain points) from which to base their approach, and operating from this position.

What I am saying is it is better to have them want you because of you and what you offer and your true value, not to address their negative elements. A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.

I closed my therapy practice many years ago for just this exact reason. I don't want to deal with people who are focusing on their pain, problems or negativity. Sure, I could help them and I did, but it just wasn't what I wanted for my business foundation.

You can be their best, and in many cases, their real only choice in many other ways than operating from the pain point position.

The Customer Experience must be THEIR experience, not the experience you wish to put upon them. By bundling like you are discussing that is what is often occurring.

This is also what happens when entertainers follow this online marketing guru approach, perspective, and operation. We have seen many performers get nowhere quickly with this approach. That may be fine for schlepping marketing courses to unknowing wanna-bees, but that is not how entertainment is best offered or operated. Entertainment is based on wants and experiences. If you really want to serve your prospects and clients it is much better to operate from an entertainment-based foundation and position.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:01AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.
[/quote]

I never said you should focus on the pain points in your marketing or approach, just that you as a magician is a service provider and, like every other service provider, your job is to solve problems. Problems the clients may or may not know they have.

It might sound like "guru" talk, but one need to see the difference between tried and tested methods and "the latest shiny thing".
Solving real world "problems" for real world clients is, in my opinion, the bread and butter for most magicians and is in no way "guru talk".

I think many performers focus on their selves instead of focusing on the client. If you can both give your client a good experience and at the same time make more money...I don't see any problems with that.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 10:22AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, AndreJ wrote:
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
A pain-based business model, while certainly one approach, is not how I want my businesses operating and the foundation for my businesses.
[/quote]

Solving real world "problems" for real world clients is, in my opinion, the bread and butter for most magicians and is in no way "guru talk".
[/quote]

See I think it is the PROBLEM most magicians have. And it most certainly IS "guru talk". It is buzz word speak.

The bread and butter of most magicians SHOULD be doing a magic show. You can guru wrap it however you like but it is a problem most magicians CAUSE for THEMSELVES.

Your job is NOT to solve a problem they don't know they have. My lord how self centered is this approach? Your job is to do a show. I know the guru crowd want to sell as much as possible, and want to look like they are the one stop shop for answers. You invent problems for you to solve and yada yada yada. It is silly. Do a great show, do it at a price they can afford and understand and move on. Keep it simple.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:26AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:

The bread and butter of most magicians SHOULD be doing a magic show. You can guru wrap it however you like but it is a problem most magicians CAUSE for THEMSELVES. [/quote]

But WHY are you doing that magic show?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 10:28AM)
WHO CARES?

Do a great show, make it a memorable experience and move on. The self importance involved with being some sort of self appointed "problem solver" is just not needed.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:29AM)
Well...probably the guy who's gonna pay you for it...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 10:30AM)
Did he Google "problem solver" when he found your magic show? Don't force things on people they are not asking for.

He probably does NOT want that. But you KNOW he wants a magic show. No "probably involved".

Once you start to work in "probably" you are working from YOUR point of view and not that of the client. This is just silly to do.

Again that is "guru speak".
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:36AM)
He probably didn't google "memorable experience" either...

He googled "magic show *city* " or "magician *city* "...and that's the easy sale.

The hard one is the guy that google "entertainment wedding *city " ...why should he hire you, the magician, and not "Billy the shadow artist" or "Lisa the acrobat"? He will hire the one who he think will make his event a success. If you want the job, you better explain why a magician is a good choice...not just say "I do a magic show".
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 8, 2019 10:46AM)
There's flawed logic with that too. The last way to position yourself is just as I do a magic show. That lumps you in with every other magician. I certainly wouldn't be selling "a magician" or you will just ever be seen as an interchangeable magician.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:50AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
There's flawed logic with that too. The last way to position yourself is just as I do a magic show. That lumps you in with every other magician. I certainly wouldn't be selling "a magician" or you will just ever be seen as an interchangeable magician. [/quote]

I agree
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Apr 8, 2019 10:51AM)
This seems like an Execution versus Strategy discussion.

Do a great job and business will come to you (Execution)

Target a large, profitable, customer segment with an appropriate value proposition and you will be successful. (Strategy)

Most highly successful businesses do both. You can be successful with only great execution, but you can not be successful with only a great strategy.

Hudson
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 10:54AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, 55Hudson wrote:
This seems like an Execution versus Strategy discussion.

Do a great job and business will come to you (Execution)

Target a large, profitable, customer segment with an appropriate value proposition and you will be successful. (Strategy)

Most highly successful businesses do both. You can be successful with only great execution, but you can not be successful with only a great strategy.
[/quote]

Well put...and looking at your site, you certainly seems to have both.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 11:02AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, 55Hudson wrote:
This seems like an Execution versus Strategy discussion.

Do a great job and business will come to you (Execution)

Target a large, profitable, customer segment with an appropriate value proposition and you will be successful. (Strategy)

Most highly successful businesses do both. You can be successful with only great execution, but you can not be successful with only a great strategy.

Hudson [/quote]
Oh I have never advocated "if you build it they will come". No no not ever. It is a ridiculous way to do things. The idea of just do a great show and it will be booked is NOT what I am, or have ever advocated.

Selling yourself as some sort of "problem solver" for problems they don't know they have is what I am saying is silly. The two are NOT connected in any way.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 8, 2019 11:38AM)
The whole problem-solver thing is always taken waaay out of context. It is something that gurus use and is more prominent when selling educational products or training (that is NOT what entertainers do). You are selling it to people who are there specifically because of their blocks, barriers, lack of knowledge, and setbacks. Because they don't know something they don't know. They are there because of problems or pain. So of course, targeting your educational and training to assist with such problems makes much more sense in that forum, in that market to those exact types of targeted prospects. Thes era eon no way teh same as entertainment seeking prospects.

The problem (and I see this with so many that believe they need a marketing course, when in fact they need (entertainment) business training, education or course) is that isn't really applicable or adaptable to entertainment. Again, entertainment business is different than conventional or in this case - other specialized business (selling educational solutions to those with actual problems). It is this taking things out of context that both drives me crazy, and hurts both the performer and the industry.

The only thing worse is when performers or entertainers try to take the guru stuff (problem-solving approach) and attempt to repackage it and sell it to performers (we have seen this repeated in this very forum and we all know how that has turned out.) That is actually worse than the gurus - at least they are specializing and know their exact audience, their needs, and how to service them. I do not see this regularly with entertainers.

All people tend to see is "well this guy (the guru) says this, and he seems to be doing well or is successful, but you are not seeing and comparing two actual similar things. The online guru and online marketing/education world is in no way even closely related to selling entertainment or speaking services.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 8, 2019 12:14PM)
Can you explain why magicians (and other entertainers) should not be considered "problem solvers". I think you put to much power in the word "problem"...it doesn't need to be heavy pains or barriers. It could be a simple as "I need some good entertainment for my event".

Isn't that a "problem"? Isn't a magic show the solution to that problem?

What is it with this thinking drives you crazy?

I'm simply saying that you should give your customers the value they deserve and need.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 01:05PM)
It is guru speak and pointless. I have been on the receiving end of problem solving by entertainers and it sucks.

Now you want to spin it to mean something it doesn't. You want to change it so everyone agrees.

Do what you want, it is your business. But showing up, doing a fantastic job and leaving is the job.

Self aggrandizing with nonsense about problem solving does not suit me.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 8, 2019 08:07PM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2019, AndreJ wrote:
Can you explain why magicians (and other entertainers) should not be considered "problem solvers". I think you put to much power in the word "problem"...it doesn't need to be heavy pains or barriers. It could be a simple as "I need some good entertainment for my event".

Isn't that a "problem"? Isn't a magic show the solution to that problem? [/quote]

Sure. I thought I already had in my previous post above about those seeking guru training and education vs. those seeking entertainment services (one is seeking solutions to problems and pain, the other is not in any way), but I will again.

Prospects seeking entertainment services or information have interests, wants and needs, or...they are simply searching for ideas and possibilities, options. There is no problem or pain at play. Maybe they have specific questions such as "what do you do?" or "What do you charge?" There is no point implanting a problem or pain point just in order and in order so you can be their "solution."

This is not serving their interests or perspectives. By taking the pain/solution approach, you are changing the transaction and relationship dynamics. This is not the best foundation for a business approach to create a truly win-win situation or serve their true interests.

Also, when using this approach we are somehow to believe (as they (the performer) actually believes they can) you can provide "solutions to any pain or problem" they may have. You are their all-encompassing, master cure to all possible pain points or problems. This is ridiculous to assume or expect anyone to believe - especially from a performer.

One of the problems I see with performers is many take or accept bookings they shouldn't be for a variety of reasons. They may not be qualified, or perhaps experienced in the specific type of booking, venue, or market (we see that here all the time - "I just booked a trade show and have never done one before - who can help me with what tricks I should perform...") or they are not at the proper level of proficiency, or they booked it based on lies or untruths about their experience or familiarity with the type of booking, or a host of many other reasons.

However, most of all, the prospect does not have any pain or problems in most entertainment buying situations. They either are looking for options or they have decided on the type of performer they want and are simply looking, shopping and comparing what is available. These are interests and wants, not problems, pain, or whatever you wish to spin to as. It is best to focus solely on their interests and needs and what you offer to serve these - to exceed their expectations. There is nothing worse than when someone calls to either learn more info or to get specific information, only to be led way off course by the performer to their own agenda and interests evading their question and interests in the process. This is not serving the customer. Neither is the pain/solution approach if they clearly are not having pain or problems.

As an agency owner I can tell you the pain I hear the most is when a prospects calls us and says they have contacted 5 or 6 performers and none of them answered their questions, would give them direct or specific answers to their questions or areas of interest, or felt they were being "sold" into something that wasn't what they wanted. I love this when it happens because uninformed and qualified performers actually created pain and frustration that wasn't there and didn't exist when they were contacted, now it has turned them completely against them and they are turning to the professional specialists for a solution - to a problem that never needed to exist! It's crazy!

Time and effort would be much better spent on positioning, branding and market specialization so you separate yourself from, the competition and you can become their only true choice - without the whole problem, pain, solution thing at play at all.

There are many ways to position, present, sell, and book entertainment services without any of the guru nonsense approach. As an entertainment business owner, why would you want to take the lead and advice from an online marketing guru anyhow, let alone position and operate your business as such? There are so many better ways to operate and service your prospects and customers.

And no, a magic show isn't a solution to that problem as much as most magicians would like to think it is.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 8, 2019 09:16PM)
People call with a need not a problem.
Message: Posted by: AndreJ (Apr 9, 2019 01:10AM)
[quote] have interests, wants and needs, [/quote]

You call it "interests, wants and needs"...I call it "problems". Same thing in my mind.

But, I thank you for your input. Although I don't agree with all of it, I appreciate the discussion.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 9, 2019 09:10AM)
It may be the same in your mind but in the world not even close.

You don't "need solve". It is not even a thing.
Message: Posted by: bdungey (Apr 10, 2019 07:38AM)
"One fundamental rule in all business is that you should never use price to differentiate yourself from your competitors. If you canít be the cheapest magician in town, thereís no point in being the second cheapest. Also, you donít ever want to be the cheapest magician in town."

This is a fundamental problem, generally speaking, with artists selling art. I've been involved in a number of projects where original artistic creations are being sold. We (the artists in question) often have a hard time 'pricing' our products.

It's not too far from being a tradesperson, however, and if you really think about it - it's your expertise that you're selling. The price you come to should be a reflection of the time and spirit you put into your work. It's sometimes hard to put a price on that.

Don't underprice yourself, either. When confronted about your price, you should be able to articulate exactly why you charge what you do.

What do you provide that can't be had from anyone else?

Have you worked on an 'elevator pitch'?

Just some thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 10, 2019 09:00AM)
Yes sir. If price is your pitch it is a mistake in my view.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Apr 10, 2019 11:09AM)
[quote]On Apr 10, 2019, bdungey wrote:
"One fundamental rule in all business is that you should never use price to differentiate yourself from your competitors. If you canít be the cheapest magician in town, thereís no point in being the second cheapest. Also, you donít ever want to be the cheapest magician in town."

This is a fundamental problem, generally speaking, with artists selling art. I've been involved in a number of projects where original artistic creations are being sold. We (the artists in question) often have a hard time 'pricing' our products.

...it's your expertise that you're selling. The price you come to should be a reflection of the time and spirit you put into your work. It's sometimes hard to put a price on that. The price you come to should be a reflection of the time and spirit you put into your work. It's sometimes hard to put a price on that.

Don't underprice yourself, either. When confronted about your price, you should be able to articulate exactly why you charge what you do.

What do you provide that can't be had from anyone else?

Have you worked on an 'elevator pitch'?

Just some thoughts. [/quote]



As far as your pricing thoughts...While I don't ever suggest this, it is an actual business model than some have success with. It doesn't allow you much latitude and the positioning that comes with it may stink, but it is a business model (think Dollartree, .99 stores, or budget retailers). It is so defining and limiting, and it attracts the bottom-end of the market budget customer.

Next, very few magicians are what I would consider "original artistic creations" but I understand your point. In reality though to prospects, they (most) aren't really looking for or concerned with or about "originality" (or 995% of magicians would be out of business). That's not how they shop for entertainment. They have other and different concerns. It's not like painting or comedians where they want and expect original paintings or comedians are seen as a hack if they don't have their own material. Cover bands can be accepted but are always seen and accepted at a certain level or in a certain light.

I think many performers approach pricing the wrong way and therefore make it much more complicated and difficult than it needs to be. Your pricing reflects many things at once including your level of professionalism, your knowledge, and understanding of the performance market, the geographical market, and the needs of your prospects within these areas. I have always used a very simple formula for determining a performers price and it has never failed anyone yet. If anything, it provides much more clarity and direction for them and their business to proceed and succeed.

As far as a performer articulating their price, again this is where value and a few other elements come in. Offering pricing without these is always a formula for problems and disappointment. THIS is what most performers fail to understand and execute properly.

As far as unique offering and having and (truly proper and effective) elevator pitch, this is not the answer to all problems or concerns. Most don't have an effective elevator pitch, and then if they do don't understand how to properly use it effectively (most's are ineffective anyway) and unique material is only as good as how you position, brand or utilize it. None of these are an assurance of getting better pricing unless unerstood and used effectively.