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Topic: Impossible Whooper
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 25, 2019 04:24PM)
An awesomely interesting "behind the scenes" video about the new Burger King vegan "Impossible Whooper".

They say a lot of the things I've been saying here about vegan food being BETTER than animal-based products, only I've been talking about end-consumer issues (taste, flavor, texture, etc) whereas they reveal what persuaded BK to do this: it is also better for the restaurants.

Specifically, it tastes better longer meaning from the time it is taken off the grill to the time it is opened for the first bite; the vegan patty holds it's flavor longer in the wrapper. It also solves other problems, such as shrinkage - the vegan patty does not shrink at variable levels like meat does.

[youtube]ng4C2HMH664[/youtube]

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 25, 2019 04:33PM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
It also solves other problems, such as shrinkage . . . .[/quote]
In business, [i]shrinkage[/i] generally refers to something [b][i]much[/i][/b] different.

However, it may help with that problem as well.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 25, 2019 05:44PM)
They have also been talking about end-consumer issues

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271440/Burger-King-admits-selling-beef-burgers-Whoppers-containing-horse-meat.html
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 25, 2019 06:49PM)
[b]whooper[/b]
[i][ hoo-per, hwoo-, woo- ][/i]

noun
a person or thing that whoops.


... yep.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 25, 2019 06:58PM)
"Significant Shrinkage"

[youtube]GG2dF5PS0bI[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 25, 2019 08:14PM)
I am so hungry I could eat a whopping vegan horse burger.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 25, 2019 08:22PM)
[i]Impossible patties are made from soy protein concentrate and potato protein, with fat from coconut and sunflower oils, all bound together with methyl cellulose, a laxative.[/i]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/life/food/2019/04/24/burger-kings-new-impossible-whopper/3564128002/
Message: Posted by: Mary Mowder (Apr 25, 2019 10:17PM)
Even better.

- Mary
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 26, 2019 04:55AM)
[quote]On Apr 25, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
An awesomely interesting "behind the scenes" video about the new Burger King vegan "Impossible Whooper".

They say a lot of the things I've been saying here about vegan food being BETTER than animal-based products, only I've been talking about end-consumer issues (taste, flavor, texture, etc) whereas they reveal what persuaded BK to do this: it is also better for the restaurants.

Specifically, it tastes better longer meaning from the time it is taken off the grill to the time it is opened for the first bite; the vegan patty holds it's flavor longer in the wrapper. It also solves other problems, such as shrinkage - the vegan patty does not shrink at variable levels like meat does.

[youtube]ng4C2HMH664[/youtube]

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Why would Vegans want their vegetables to look, feel, and taste, like a dead animal on a bun?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 26, 2019 08:21AM)
Is it possible that Vegan Hot Dogs come in three varieties: shorthaired, wirehaired and longhaired, dripping in blood red Ketchup?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 26, 2019 09:39AM)
[quote]On Apr 26, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Why would Vegans want their vegetables to look, feel, and taste, like a dead animal on a bun? [/quote]

We don't ... we want something "better".



Quote from video: "It is kind of the Tesla of the Tesla of food if you think about it; it is full of new technology, it seeks to disrupt it's sector, and it has inspired thousands of sometimes heated conversation about the future. But one thing it hasn't been all this time is widely available in restaurants ... that is about to change, the Impossible Burger is coming to Burger King"



Man rode horses for thousands and thousands of years, why do you want a car?? Why are you not arguing that man should be riding horses that there is no need for nothing "better"?? That is just plain downright silly sounding.



I want something "better" to eat. So if you ever happen to see the warden of this "prison planet" we are on, do let him know that JoeJoe is refusing to eat the food and is demanding something "better" to eat.

:)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 26, 2019 11:58AM)
So, go eat your something "better," just stop trying to tell us that we secretly want it.

And the question, why are vegans so hot to make their food resemble meat?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 03:13PM)
[quote]On Apr 26, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
And the question, why are vegans so hot to make their food resemble meat? [/quote]

Your question still makes no sense - "beef" does not look like a "hamburger"; it is processed and ground-up and then covered in plant-matter until it is no longer recognizable as an "animal" product.

Neither a "Whopper" nor an "Impossible Whopper" look anything like an actual "animal". So your question comes from the presumption that hamburgers look like animals when in fact they do not.

So if you were born into a vegetarian society you would be wondering why animal eaters grind-up their cows and make them resemble bean and rice patties, culture bias.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 27, 2019 03:49PM)
Do they look like vegan leather?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 27, 2019 04:33PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 26, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
And the question, why are vegans so hot to make their food resemble meat? [/quote]

Your question still makes no sense - "beef" does not look like a "hamburger"; it is processed and ground-up and then covered in plant-matter until it is no longer recognizable as an "animal" product.

Neither a "Whopper" nor an "Impossible Whopper" look anything like an actual "animal". So your question comes from the presumption that hamburgers look like animals when in fact they do not.

So if you were born into a vegetarian society you would be wondering why animal eaters grind-up their cows and make them resemble bean and rice patties, culture bias.

-JoeJoe [/quote]

However, I was NOT born into that society, so the point is moot. Fair enough though, I will rephrase the question; Why does there seem to be a major industry in the vegan culture, making patties that look like hamburgers or sausage, and telling us "you won't be able to tell the difference!"? If we handed you a spiced, seasoned, smoked burger and said; "You won't be able to tell it's not vegan!" You wouldn't buy it for a moment.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 04:53PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
However, I was NOT born into that society, so the point is moot. Fair enough though, I will rephrase the question; Why does there seem to be a major industry in the vegan culture, making patties that look like hamburgers or sausage, and telling us "you won't be able to tell the difference!"? If we handed you a spiced, seasoned, smoked burger and said; "You won't be able to tell it's not vegan!" You wouldn't buy it for a moment. [/quote]

The only company making the claim that "you can't tell the difference" is the Impossible Burger brand; every other brand strives to make their burger have it's own unique taste and flavor knowing that the most popular options now will corner the market and become the most popular options in the future.

And their motivation is not to trick you into thinking you are eating animal, but to create a better product that will deliver the same taste without the devastating environmental, health, and emotional consequences that comes with the meat industry.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 04:56PM)
Joe Joe- "beef" does not look like a "hamburger"; 

Yes. Yes it does. When you run beef through a grinder, which I have done for many years, it comes out a certain texture, consistency, etc ., which is what vegetarians try to get their veggies to resemble. Why? Because they love hamburgers.
Same reason your friend made veggie tuna and put it on a sandwich- to imitate ground tuna.
Message: Posted by: hou_dini (Apr 27, 2019 05:26PM)
Cooked on the same grill as meat change your thoughts on a vegan burger?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 05:49PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
When you run beef through a grinder, which I have done for many years, it comes out a certain texture, consistency, etc ., which is what vegetarians try to get their veggies to resemble. Why? Because they love hamburgers.
Same reason your friend made veggie tuna and put it on a sandwich- to imitate ground tuna. [/quote]

You have to process your cows into "hamburgers" just like vegans do. Perhaps everyone wants the same "texture, consistency, etc...", not just meat-eaters or vegans.

This whole divide and conquer crap is just not going to work with me, we have more in common than you realize, but you won't know this until after you've tried both options.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 05:51PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, hou_dini wrote:
Cooked on the same grill as meat change your thoughts on a vegan burger? [/quote]

Vegans do not eat from the same grill as meat, that has always been a complication for vegans.

For example, french fries are often cooked in the same fryer with chicken ... which is why McDonald's has had no vegan options on their menu what-so-ever (today, many McDonald's have "dedicated friers" to solve this problem).

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 05:54PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Yes. Yes it does. When you run beef through a grinder, which I have done for many years, it comes out a certain texture, consistency, etc ., which is what vegetarians try to get their veggies to resemble. Why? Because they love hamburgers.
Same reason your friend made veggie tuna and put it on a sandwich- to imitate ground tuna. [/quote]

And incidentally ... not all beef has the same texture and consistency, many suppliers add fillers and additives to improve the texture and consistency, so even meat-eaters want "better" food. And if it was sold in a grocery store, it is sprayed with chemicals like ammonia and there is no legal obligation to list these chemicals on the labels.

The whole "I ate from uncle marvin's chicken soup" argument does not have any merit, corporations own farms now and they no longer operate the way you describe. In the last twenty-years, everything has changed. See previously posted "glass walls" video.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 06:57PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
However, I was NOT born into that society, so the point is moot. Fair enough though, I will rephrase the question; Why does there seem to be a major industry in the vegan culture, making patties that look like hamburgers or sausage, and telling us "you won't be able to tell the difference!"? If we handed you a spiced, seasoned, smoked burger and said; "You won't be able to tell it's not vegan!" You wouldn't buy it for a moment. [/quote]

The only company making the claim that "you can't tell the difference" is the Impossible Burger brand; every other brand strives to make their burger have it's own unique taste and flavor knowing that the most popular options now will corner the market and become the most popular options in the future.

And their motivation is not to trick you into thinking you are eating animal, but to create a better product that will deliver the same taste without the devastating environmental, health, and emotional consequences that comes with the meat industry.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Deliver the same taste? Interesting.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 07:00PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Yes. Yes it does. When you run beef through a grinder, which I have done for many years, it comes out a certain texture, consistency, etc ., which is what vegetarians try to get their veggies to resemble. Why? Because they love hamburgers.
Same reason your friend made veggie tuna and put it on a sandwich- to imitate ground tuna. [/quote]

And incidentally ... not all beef has the same texture and consistency, many suppliers add fillers and additives to improve the texture and consistency, so even meat-eaters want "better" food. And if it was sold in a grocery store, it is sprayed with chemicals like ammonia and there is no legal obligation to list these chemicals on the labels.

The whole "I ate from uncle marvin's chicken soup" argument does not have any merit, corporations own farms now and they no longer operate the way you describe. In the last twenty-years, everything has changed. See previously posted "glass walls" video.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Incorrect. Fresh ground beef is fresh ground beef. It is illegal to add anything without it being on the label.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 08:03PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Incorrect. Fresh ground beef is fresh ground beef. It is illegal to add anything without it being on the label. [/quote]

Nope - you were lied to.

Both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration have decided that ammonia is not an additive, but a processing aid so there is no legal obligation to list it as an ingredient, so beef treated with ammonia is still sold as "one-hundred percent beef".

They also use gases in the packaging to keep meat "red" even past it's expiration date, and again the gases are not required to be labeled because they are not actually "added" to the meat.

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/slimegate-should-usda-require-labeling-for-lftb/

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 08:10PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Incorrect. Fresh ground beef is fresh ground beef. It is illegal to add anything without it being on the label. [/quote]

Nope - you were lied to.

Both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration have decided that ammonia is not an additive, but a processing aid so there is no legal obligation to list it as an ingredient, so beef treated with ammonia is still sold as "one-hundred percent beef".

They also use gases in the packaging to keep meat "red" even past it's expiration date, and again the gases are not required to be labeled because they are not actually "added" to the meat.

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/slimegate-should-usda-require-labeling-for-lftb/

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Why would I lie to myself? I made ground beef for a living for nearly a decade. Nothing can be added to fresh ground beef trim. Even beef roasts that are not selling cannot be brought in from the counter and ground with fresh trim. You however, are lying to your self. Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. Take a steak off a cow, run it through a grinder, and you have ground beef. Period.
A fresh beet is a fresh beet, but I'm willing to bet I could find beets in a package with a bunch of crisp added yo it and provide you a link. So what?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 08:14PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:[quote]
The only company making the claim that "you can't tell the difference" is the Impossible Burger brand; every other brand strives to make their burger have it's own unique taste and flavor knowing that the most popular options now will corner the market and become the most popular options in the future.

And their motivation is not to trick you into thinking you are eating animal, but to create a better product that will deliver the same taste without the devastating environmental, health, and emotional consequences that comes with the meat industry.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Deliver the same taste? Interesting. [/quote]

"Their motivation" being the Impossible Burger company. They want their product to taste like beef, I understand their logic but it is not something I or most established vegans would want to eat.

My personal favorite veggie burger is Sunshine Burger's "garden herb" ... only five ingredients: rice, sunflower seeds, carrots, chives, and sea salt. I have a DIY version that uses cheaper peanut butter instead of expensive sunflower seed butter. It doesn't taste like "beef" at all, much sweeter.

https://www.sunshineburger.com/products/garden-herb/

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 08:23PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. [/quote]

Not anymore. Most of the beef sold today is sprayed with ammonium-hydroxide to kill germs and bacteria, and there are no labeling requirements. The family farm barely exists these days.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 27, 2019 08:23PM)
Https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/slimegate-should-usda-require-labeling-for-lftb/

The comments on this link are interesting.

[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote: Why would I lie to myself? I made ground beef for a living for nearly a decade. Nothing can be added to fresh ground beef trim. Even beef roasts that are not selling cannot be brought in from the counter and ground with fresh trim. You however, are lying to your self. Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. Take a steak off a cow, run it through a grinder, and you have ground beef. Period.
A fresh beet is a fresh beet, but I'm willing to bet I could find beets in a package with a bunch of crisp added yo it and provide you a link. So what? [/quote]

I believe the link/article is talking about large processing plants and not the local (fresh) markets. Frozen beef and such...
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 27, 2019 08:26PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. [/quote]

Not anymore. Most of the beef sold today is sprayed with ammonium-hydroxide to kill germs and bacteria, and there are no labeling requirements. The family farm barely exists these days.

-JoeJoe [/quote]

Better than getting E Coli. According to the link and comments a lot of products contain ammonia as well:
[i]Bread - 440ppm
Beef - 200ppm
Typical condiment (ketchup) - 400ppm
Cheese - 800ppm[/i]
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 08:49PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
Better than getting E Coli
[/quote]

Yes, I agree. In fact, I posted the same statement years ago when I was a meat-eater. That of course was before I got sick from crohn's disease.

That experience made me revise my logic: better to eat food that does not contain e coli in the first place so I do not need to spray toxins on my food. This goes back to "clean animals" verses "unclean animals"; clean animals are vegans and unclean animals eat flesh.

Here at the beach, unclean animals like cats contaminate our beach water with their poop because their poop contains harmful bacterias that drain into the ocean when it rains. While clean animals like horses can poop all over the beach and do not contaminate the water because they are vegans and their poop does not contain parasites.

On the video I posted where the lady questioned why we consider it okay to eat some animals and not others?? Virtually all of the meat in your grocery store is considered "clean". So even if you are not vegan, the animals you eat are. In general, man does not eat "unclean animals" such as dogs and cats.

I also don't consider all plants to be "clean" ... lettuce is famous for becoming contaminated with bacteria so I avoid eating lettuce. I prefer tomatoes from my vine, because the ones at the grocery store have been felt up by I don't know how many other people.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 08:50PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. [/quote]

Not anymore. Most of the beef sold today is sprayed with ammonium-hydroxide to kill germs and bacteria, and there are no labeling requirements. The family farm barely exists these days.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Incorrect. Go visit your local butcher shop.
Watch him grind the beef.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 08:52PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
Https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/slimegate-should-usda-require-labeling-for-lftb/

The comments on this link are interesting.

[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote: Why would I lie to myself? I made ground beef for a living for nearly a decade. Nothing can be added to fresh ground beef trim. Even beef roasts that are not selling cannot be brought in from the counter and ground with fresh trim. You however, are lying to your self. Gas? Processing? Ammonia? No. Trim goes into a grinder and a foot pedal draws it out onto a styrofoam tray as ground beef. No additives, no preservatives. No spices, no salt, no seasonings. Nothing. Take a steak off a cow, run it through a grinder, and you have ground beef. Period.
A fresh beet is a fresh beet, but I'm willing to bet I could find beets in a package with a bunch of crisp added yo it and provide you a link. So what? [/quote]

I believe the link/article is talking about large processing plants and not the local (fresh) markets. Frozen beef and such... [/quote]
Exactly.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 08:58PM)
Joe joe wrote, "clean animals" verses "unclean animals"; clean animals are vegans and unclean animals eat flesh."
This, of course is lunacy based on propaganda. Nature is balanced. From the paramecium to the Lion. Who do you think you are judging animals that have evolved to subsist on things other than organic kale smoothies. When you die you will be consumed and your shell will return to the ecosystem thanks to mother nature's "unclean" animals.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 27, 2019 09:09PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:

Yes, I agree. In fact, I posted the same statement years ago when I was a meat-eater. That of course was before I got sick from crohn's disease. [/quote]

Didn't they have an outbreak of E Coli in spinach awhile back?


[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:... This goes back to "clean animals" verses "unclean animals"; clean animals are vegans and unclean animals eat flesh.

Here at the beach, unclean animals like cats contaminate our beach water with their poop because their poop contains harmful bacterias that drain into the ocean when it rains. While clean animals like horses can poop all over the beach and do not contaminate the water because they are vegans and their poop does not contain parasites.[/quote]

You and animals can get parasites from water as well. With that logic you could say we should clean open wounds with urine; being that it is sterile. (the difference between sterile and a sterilizing agent)

[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:... On the video I posted where the lady questioned why we consider it okay to eat some animals and not others?? Virtually all of the meat in your grocery store is considered "clean". So even if you are not vegan, the animals you eat are. In general, man does not eat "unclean animals" such as dogs and cats. [/quote]

Can't speak for everyone but for me I don't eat predator mammals. (some cultures do eat cats & dogs)

[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:...I also don't consider all plants to be "clean" ... lettuce is famous for becoming contaminated with bacteria so I avoid eating lettuce. I prefer tomatoes from my vine, because the ones at the grocery store have been felt up by I don't know how many other people.

-JoeJoe [/quote]

Being self reliant is always a good thing. I believe in most cases of 'food poisoning' people are getting sick from improper handling (not washing their hands after trips to the bathroom) of the food as it is prepared.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 09:23PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Incorrect. Go visit your local butcher shop.
Watch him grind the beef. [/quote]

I don't think Burger King allows that. Nor does walmart.



[quote][quote]
I believe the link/article is talking about large processing plants and not the local (fresh) markets. Frozen beef and such... [/quote]
Exactly. [/quote]

So if you are agreeing with us, then why are you arguing with me?? I never said you couldn't buy meat that hasn't been sprayed with ammonia at your butcher shop, I said most meat sold today has been processed with chemicals and gases. I'm talking about places like Burger King and Walmart.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 09:25PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Joe joe wrote, "clean animals" verses "unclean animals"; clean animals are vegans and unclean animals eat flesh."
This, of course is lunacy based on propaganda. Nature is balanced. From the paramecium to the Lion. Who do you think you are judging animals that have evolved to subsist on things other than organic kale smoothies. When you die you will be consumed and your shell will return to the ecosystem thanks to mother nature's "unclean" animals. [/quote]

I am not judging any animals - I never said a lion shouldn't be eating animals.

I am saying a lion should eat what a lion was designed to eat, and a human should eat what a human was designed to eat.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 27, 2019 09:34PM)
I agree. Now I'm going to use my front facing, binocular vision to track down my prey, my incisors to tear its flesh, and my molars to grind my side dish of plant matter.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 09:48PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
Didn't they have an outbreak of E Coli in spinach awhile back?
[/quote]

Yes, which is why I don't eat spinach unless I grow it myself in my garden because I know my spinach is clean. I avoid store-bought greens in general.



[quote]
You and animals can get parasites from water as well. With that logic[/quote]

That doesn't change my logic. You shouldn't want to drink water from a potentially contaminated water source any more than you would want to eat food from a potentially contaminated food source. Many cats only drink from streams of moving water, because they know still waters can harbor parasites.

One of the strangest habits I think humans have is pooping in their water; I can't think of any other creature that does that (except maybe "fish" of course).



[quote]
Being self reliant is always a good thing. I believe in most cases of 'food poisoning' people are getting sick from improper handling (not washing their hands after trips to the bathroom) of the food as it is prepared. [/quote]

Yes - like when cutting boards getting contaminated when people cut raw meat and then cut vegetables (contaminating the cutting board with uncooked meat). So if you don't have raw meat in your kitchen in the first place, you don't have to worry about contaminating your vegetables. Simplicity. :)



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 27, 2019 10:24PM)
JoeJoe everyone is sad you have Crohn's disease. You keep INSISTING it is because you ate meat.

According to the Mayo Clinic that is NOT THE CAUSE! https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/crohns-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20353304

"The exact cause of Crohn's disease remains unknown. Previously, diet and stress were suspected, but now doctors know that these factors may aggravate but don't cause Crohn's disease. A number of factors, such as heredity and a malfunctioning immune system, likely play a role in its development.

Immune system. It's possible that a virus or bacterium may trigger Crohn's disease. When your immune system tries to fight off the invading microorganism, an abnormal immune response causes the immune system to attack the cells in the digestive tract, too.
Heredity. Crohn's is more common in people who have family members with the disease, so genes may play a role in making people more susceptible. However, most people with Crohn's disease don't have a family history of the disease."

Yes it might be aggravated by a diet of whatever. But CLEARLY it is not a cause. So your religious conversion to vegan is simply based on a lie YOU have either been told or made up for yourself.

I get it. You have your "truth" and you may not believe it but I respect it. I really do. I admire your commitment to the "truth" you have. But where you get REALLY annoying is your constant need to proselytize this false truth. The idea that your "truth" is somehow the way the world needs to bend is simply ludicrous. You do this with EVERY position you take and it is ridiculous.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 27, 2019 11:15PM)
[quote]I believe the link/article is talking about large processing plants and not the local (fresh) markets. Frozen beef and such..[/quote]

I believe magicfish and JoeJoe live in different countries. Probably not productive to talk as if there were no differences between the two countries' regulations.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 11:15PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
JoeJoe everyone is sad you have Crohn's disease. You keep INSISTING it is because you ate meat.

According to the Mayo Clinic that is NOT THE CAUSE! https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/crohns-disease/symptoms-causes/syc-20353304
[/quote]

I myself have no doubts that my Crohn's comes from MAP bacteria found in cows milk that have Joules disease; the bacteria has been proven to be able to survive pasteurization and it is nearly identical to Crohn's disease in humans and there is genetic evidence that it is zoonotic.

National Institute of Health article titled "Mycobacterium paratuberculosis as a cause of Crohn's disease" - will you click links I post from your own government, or are they not a creditable source either?? :)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894645/

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 11:20PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, landmark wrote:
I believe magicfish and JoeJoe live in different countries. Probably not productive to talk as if there were no differences between the two countries' regulations. [/quote]

That could explain the misunderstanding, here in America where I live virtually nobody is getting their food from a local farmer or butcher. People are being fed by corporations (ie: Burger King).

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 27, 2019 11:21PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I myself have no doubts that my Crohn's comes from MAP bacteria found in cows milk that have Joules disease.[/quote]
If I recall correctly, you also have no doubts that whales and dolphins are not mammals.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 27, 2019 11:29PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I myself have no doubts that my Crohn's comes from MAP bacteria found in cows milk that have Joules disease.[/quote]
If I recall correctly, you also have no doubts that whales and dolphins are not mammals. [/quote]

I could care less what you or your scientists define what a "mammal" is; I know a dolphin is a dolphin, a whale is a whale, and a human is a human.

So whatever fast-and-loose game you want to play with the definitions of words ... I will still have no doubts that I am not a dolphin nor a whale. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 27, 2019 11:49PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I myself have no doubts that my Crohn's comes from MAP bacteria found in cows milk that have Joules disease.[/quote]
If I recall correctly, you also have no doubts that whales and dolphins are not mammals.[/quote]
I could care less what you or your scientists define what a "mammal" is; I know a dolphin is a dolphin, a whale is a whale, and a human is a human.

So whatever fast-and-loose game you want to play with the definitions of words ... I will still have no doubts that I am not a dolphin nor a whale. :)[/quote]
I suspect that you mean that you [b][i]couldn't[/i][/b] care less.

And, of course, nobody said that you're a whale or a dolphin. But dolphins and whales are mammals, whether you care or not.

You really do need to lighten up. You'll give yourself an aneurysm.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 28, 2019 12:26AM)
Naturally that aneurysm will be caused by diet.

JoeJoe what you believe is irrelevant. I think the Mayo Clinic is a pretty informed source. Your mileage may vary. After all their information came from books and all.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 28, 2019 03:10AM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, landmark wrote:
[quote]I believe the link/article is talking about large processing plants and not the local (fresh) markets. Frozen beef and such..[/quote]

I believe magicfish and JoeJoe live in different countries. Probably not productive to talk as if there were no differences between the two countries' regulations. [/quote]
It doesn't matter. Beef through a grinder in a grocery store meat department in Ontario is the same as in the Carolinas.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 28, 2019 07:14AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
It doesn't matter. Beef through a grinder in a grocery store meat department in Ontario is the same as in the Carolinas. [/quote]

Beef passed through a grinder at the Burger King factory farm is not going to be the same as beef passed through a grinder at a local Ontario butcher shop.

The Burger King factory farm is going to process it with chemicals the local butcher is not going to use.

Your belief that all beef is the same is false.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 28, 2019 07:22AM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
And, of course, nobody said that you're a whale or a dolphin. But dolphins and whales are mammals, whether you care or not.
[/quote]

You just want to argue over the level of classification; it is a useless conversation.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 28, 2019 08:19AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
JoeJoe what you believe is irrelevant. I think the Mayo Clinic is a pretty informed source. Your mileage may vary. After all their information came from books and all. [/quote]

Mayo Clinic?? Here ya go, doctor from Mayo Clinic talking about a paper they did titled "is meat killing us?".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO08mOX7xAY

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 28, 2019 09:51AM)
Wonderful movement of the goal posts. Your disease is not caused by diet. Period.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 28, 2019 11:24AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 27, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
And, of course, nobody said that you're a whale or a dolphin. But dolphins and whales are mammals, whether you care or not.[/quote]
You just want to argue over the level of classification; it is a useless conversation.[/quote]
I don't want to argue over a level of classification.

I simply want to point out you sometimes you're quite certain of something that is completely, utterly, absurdly wrong.

In short: your certainty is no reliable gauge of truth.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 28, 2019 11:37AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Wonderful movement of the goal posts. Your disease is not caused by diet. Period. [/quote]

My doctors disagree with you ... I was told "there is nothing physically wrong with you". I have all their papers with their tests in a big manila envelope with that quote written in black magic marker on it.

They said exactly what the lady in the above video said, she is giving doctors advice on how to tell their patients to stop eating meat. Her approach is "baby steps" where if they can convince their patient to cut back their red meat consumption even a little is helpful. It was too late for me to take baby steps, I had to jump right into it.

The last five years of my life do not agree with you either; the avatar was taken after I went from 264 pounds to 131 pounds, a fifty-percent loss of body weight known medically as "wasting away syndrome", and this was while I was being prescribed the most powerful anti-nausea drugs available usually reserved for cancer chemotherapy patients.

Since changing my diet as suggested, I have not had to take any drugs to eat. I'll have a new picture soon, a more recent one. I am very much in great health again. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 28, 2019 11:46AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
I simply want to point out you sometimes you're quite certain of something that is completely, utterly, absurdly wrong.
[/quote]

I'm not wrong ... if you want to say dolphins are "mammals" then fine, I still consider them "aquatic mammals" and are not the same as "land mammals" ... but both dolphins and humans can still also be just "mammals" too. You just want to twist what I say around until you can claim "you are right and I am wrong". I'm not playing a "word game" - there are no winners or losers, there is no right or wrong.

Animals are covered in fur, human beings are covered in skin. It is not that difficult of a concept to understand.

I am not an "animal", I am a "human being". Your lack of comprehension of my words does not make either one of us right or wrong.

-JoeJOe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 28, 2019 11:53AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
I simply want to point out you sometimes you're quite certain of something that is completely, utterly, absurdly wrong.[/quote]
I'm not wrong ... if you want to say dolphins are "mammals" then fine, I still consider them "aquatic mammals" and are not the same as "land mammals" ... but both dolphins and humans can still also be just "mammals" too. You just want to twist what I say around until you can claim "you are right and I am wrong". I'm not playing a "word game" - there are no winners or losers, there is no right or wrong.

Animals are covered in fur, human beings are covered in skin. It is not that difficult of a concept to understand.

I am not an "animal", I am a "human being". Your lack of comprehension of my words does not make either one of us right or wrong.[/quote]
There most definitely is a right and wrong, and it's clearly wrong to try to try to teach you what's right.

I apologize.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 28, 2019 01:48PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
It doesn't matter. Beef through a grinder in a grocery store meat department in Ontario is the same as in the Carolinas. [/quote]

Beef passed through a grinder at the Burger King factory farm is not going to be the same as beef passed through a grinder at a local Ontario butcher shop.

The Burger King factory farm is going to process it with chemicals the local butcher is not going to use.

Your belief that all beef is the same is false.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
So Americans don't buy their ground beef from grocery stores?
Hmmm, I didn't know Americans got all their homemade meatloaf, lasagna, shepherd's pie, chili, from their local Burger king.
Interesting. You either get your ground beef from burger king or you have to go to a farm? And since when are farmers butchers?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 28, 2019 02:24PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, magicfish wrote:
It doesn't matter. Beef through a grinder in a grocery store meat department in Ontario is the same as in the Carolinas. [/quote]

Beef passed through a grinder at the Burger King factory farm is not going to be the same as beef passed through a grinder at a local Ontario butcher shop.

The Burger King factory farm is going to process it with chemicals the local butcher is not going to use.

Your belief that all beef is the same is false.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
So by Ontario butcher shop you mean Costco, Loblaws etc? Got it. Ok so my father's and my combined 63 years of butchering livestock, grinding meats, and food safety in both wholesale and retail environments is wrong, and you are right. Got it.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 28, 2019 04:45PM)
Tenderness is a most desirable quality in meat among other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=093GjYcDg-4
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 28, 2019 05:05PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
I simply want to point out you sometimes you're quite certain of something that is completely, utterly, absurdly wrong.
[/quote]

I'm not wrong ... if you want to say dolphins are "mammals" then fine, I still consider them "aquatic mammals" and are not the same as "land mammals" ... but both dolphins and humans can still also be just "mammals" too. You just want to twist what I say around until you can claim "you are right and I am wrong". I'm not playing a "word game" - there are no winners or losers, there is no right or wrong.

Animals are covered in fur, human beings are covered in skin. It is not that difficult of a concept to understand.

I am not an "animal", I am a "human being". Your lack of comprehension of my words does not make either one of us right or wrong.

-JoeJOe [/quote]

This has to be the most ridiculously uninformed post ever.

What may I ask is the fur of animals attached to exactly?

Reptiles have no skin? Fish have no skin?

You are the most unintentionally hilarious person I've ever read.
Message: Posted by: hou_dini (Apr 29, 2019 09:06AM)
JoeJoe—you missed my point. I believe that the BK’s across the states grill/will grill the impossible burger on the same grills as the meat patties. This would effectively negate a vegan choice at the fast food chain. Impossible burger is just that—impossible.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 29, 2019 11:27AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, hou_dini wrote:
JoeJoe—you missed my point. I believe that the BK’s across the states grill/will grill the impossible burger on the same grills as the meat patties. This would effectively negate a vegan choice at the fast food chain. Impossible burger is just that—impossible. [/quote]

Fire would most likely burn off any cross-contamination, fire takes care of everything. None-the-less, I'm sure larger BKs can use a dedicated grill, and smaller ones can can microwave the patty to avoid that problem.

If a vegan get animal fat into their system, it can make them sick (I've had that happen a couple of times). Nothing serious, not bedridden on anything ... the body just knows it doesn't belong and expels it. A body has to eat meat in order to be able to digest meat (more proof you are not naturally designed to eat meat).

I wouldn't eat an Impossible Whooper anyway, it has genetically modified ingredients. I would have loved to a few years ago, but not today. The Impossible Whopper is a food for meat-eaters to enjoy, not vegans ... it was not designed to feed vegans, but rather to give meat-eaters a better option on their menu:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/04/15/burger-kings-impossible-whopper-tastes-even-better-than-the-real-thing/?utm_term=.343b5b60922a

[quote]
It may take a genius to create an Impossible burger, but it doesn’t take one to understand why the mock meat fools so many: The bar is set extremely low. As I’ve noted before, the beef in fast-food burgers represents only a fraction of the sandwich’s total weight, about 30 percent for the Whopper. Most of what you taste in a Whopper is not ground beef. It’s a combination of sweet bun, fatty mayo, ripe tomato, raw onions and that famous “grill flavor,” which a Burger King representative told me last year was natural to the flame-grilling process, not artificially added.

"Few Whopper devotees probably do this, but the next time you try one, break off a hunk of the ground beef and taste it. The meat is so overcooked and juiceless that, if not for the grill flavor, the patty wouldn’t have much to recommend it. Whatever beef flavor remains is residual, an echo of the animal fat that’s all but rendered out. It’s a grill-flavored protein disc, which the Impossible version has no problem mimicking. In fact, I’d argue the Impossible Whopper patty, all by itself, has more flavor than the meaty one."
[/quote]

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 29, 2019 12:07PM)
BK cooks on a motorized wire rack (like a pizza oven) and not on a grill like Mc'D's.

Cross contamination could occur with the tongs though as I doubt they use separate tongs at the sandwich station.



I don't get the fuss over genetic modified foods.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Apr 29, 2019 12:15PM)
From the Washington Post article that JoeJoe linked to:

[quote]
After eating more than a dozen Impossible-branded burgers in St. Louis — including Red Robin’s thick-cut version, which had none of the chin-dribbling juices you desire from a big, sloppy grilled hamburger — I’ve come to the conclusion that the producer of this meat alternative is a master illusionist. After one bite, you swear the Impossible patty tastes just like beef. After a second bite, you begin to sense the illusion behind the science. After a third, you’re ready to invest in the whole enterprise. With time, the illusion becomes its own alternative reality: The product is close enough to beef that your brain is willing to fill in the rest of the flavors, even if somewhere in the dark recesses of your cerebral cortex, you know it’s all a lie.
[/quote]

It's interesting that although we are in a magic forum we miss the most interesting part of the review: the burger works! How? [i][b]As an illusion[/i][/b] that it is made from real beef.

I'm definitely gonna eat one when it becomes available here.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 29, 2019 01:15PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, stoneunhinged wrote:
It's interesting that although we are in a magic forum we miss the most interesting part of the review: the burger works! How? [i][b]As an illusion[/i][/b] that it is made from real beef.
[/quote]

EXACTLY!! What I've been trying to tell everyone ... I learned from old radio shows that relied on "sound effects" that sometimes the illusion can be more convincing than the real thing.

If you could make vegetable-meat taste better than animal-meat why would you not want to??

Sensorly illusion ... amazing!! I have plans to make more videos ... filming cooking is different than filming magic, I'm working on it. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 29, 2019 01:55PM)
The problem is when illusion becomes delusion.

JoeJoe not everyone wants to subscribe to your way of life. Get over it.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 29, 2019 02:09PM)
Joe joe wrote,
"If you could make vegetable-meat taste better than animal-meat why would you not want to?? "

1. Because I prefer animals.
2. There's no such thing as vegetable meat.
3. Because I love vegetables how they are.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 29, 2019 03:39PM)
I love okra and I love top sirloin.

I would never try to make okra taste like top sirloin. That's stupid. If I want the flavor of top sirloin, I'll eat top sirloin.

I would never try to make top sirloin taste like okra. That's stupid. If I want the flavor of okra, I'll eat okra.

Tonight, I'll be eating chili. Tri-tip, chuck roast, ground turkey, tomatoes, tomatillos, onions, garlic, chilies, black beans, pinto beans, celery, chili powder, and so on.

No top sirloin and no okra because I love other stuff as well.

Yum²!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 29, 2019 08:25PM)
I love human beings. Is it possible to get me a Long Pig Impossible Whooper?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 29, 2019 08:55PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, stoneunhinged wrote:
It's interesting that although we are in a magic forum we miss the most interesting part of the review: the burger works! How? [i][b]As an illusion[/i][/b] that it is made from real beef.
[/quote]

As I said earlier that the "industry" knows a "secret" - they already know this:

Kentucky Fried Chicken does not taste like chicken; it tastes like "eleven herbs and spices". If you put those same eleven herbs and spices on my potato nuggets, they will taste just like Kentucky Fried Chicken.

McDonalds breads their nuggets in corn, they don't taste like KFC nuggets. And Chick-fil-a uses a heavy dose of paprika so their nuggets don't taste like McDonalds or KFC.

People are not eating "chicken-flavored nuggets". There is virtually nothing left of the chicken in them at all, flavor or texture. At least the drunks at the bar are still biting meat off a bone with their nuggets, even if they are drenched with sugar-sauce to the point they are blatantly "unclean" to eat.

If people actually wanted "chicken-flavored nuggets", all these places would have nuggets that tasted the same, they don't.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 29, 2019 09:22PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
If people actually wanted "chicken-flavored nuggets", all these places would have nuggets that tasted the same, they don't.[/quote]
That, of course, is absurd.

Do all cooks make minestrone that tastes the same? Or bhindi masala? Or artichoke, asparagus, and mushroom risotto? Or salsa? Or kettle corn? Or mango chutney? Or whatever?

Of course not.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 29, 2019 09:40PM)
When you self-define what words mean...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 29, 2019 09:53PM)
Of course, they don’t use herbs and spices on their rotten horse meat for nothing.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 30, 2019 06:35AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
If people actually wanted "chicken-flavored nuggets", all these places would have nuggets that tasted the same, they don't.[/quote]
That, of course, is absurd.

Do all cooks make minestrone that tastes the same? Or bhindi masala? Or artichoke, asparagus, and mushroom risotto? Or salsa? Or kettle corn? Or mango chutney? Or whatever?

Of course not. [/quote]

That is exactly what I said, this is absurd!!

Why would you want all of your hamburgers to taste like "beef"??

You don't. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 30, 2019 09:45AM)
The next logical step in this thought process is "if you don't want your hamburger to taste like beef, then make it out of something other than beef".

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 30, 2019 10:00AM)
For our burger, which is a combination of gouda cheese, smoked maple bacon, lettuce, tomato, red onion, and our signature burger sauce, we won the best burger in Birmingham award. It is more of a ham than a beef burger, more of a bacon sarnie if you ask me.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Apr 30, 2019 10:05AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
The next logical step in this thought process is "if you don't want your hamburger to taste like beef, then make it out of something other than beef".

-JoeJoe [/quote]
You have a different definition of logical than the rest of the world. Also thought process means something different to you than others.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Apr 30, 2019 10:35AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
If people actually wanted "chicken-flavored nuggets", all these places would have nuggets that tasted the same, they don't.[/quote]
That, of course, is absurd.

Do all cooks make minestrone that tastes the same? Or bhindi masala? Or artichoke, asparagus, and mushroom risotto? Or salsa? Or kettle corn? Or mango chutney? Or whatever?

Of course not.[/quote]
That is exactly what I said, this is absurd!![/quote]
It's not remotely what you said.

But feel free to rewrite history as you will.

[quote]On Apr 30, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Why would you want all of your hamburgers to taste like "beef"??

You don't. :) [/quote]
And that's why we also eat turkey burgers.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Apr 30, 2019 11:29AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
If people actually wanted "chicken-flavored nuggets", all these places would have nuggets that tasted the same, they don't.[/quote]
That, of course, is absurd.

Do all cooks make minestrone that tastes the same? Or bhindi masala? Or artichoke, asparagus, and mushroom risotto? Or salsa? Or kettle corn? Or mango chutney? Or whatever?

Of course not. [/quote]

That is exactly what I said, this is absurd!!

Why would you want all of your hamburgers to taste like "beef"??

You don't. :)

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Yes I do. That's why I don't eat chicken burgers, pork burgers, turkey burgers, salmon burgers, or veggie burgers.
I will however make an exception for moose, elk, caribou. Wonderfully nutritious, and actually helps reduce cholesterol.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 30, 2019 04:54PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, tommy wrote:
I love human beings. Is it possible to get me a Long Pig Impossible Whooper? [/quote]


If corn oil is made from corn, what do you think baby oil is made of?
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Apr 30, 2019 05:06PM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2019, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Apr 29, 2019, tommy wrote:
I love human beings. Is it possible to get me a Long Pig Impossible Whooper? [/quote]


If corn oil is made from corn, what do you think baby oil is made of? [/quote]


...or Girl Scout Cookies.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Apr 30, 2019 07:58PM)
Soylent Green is people!
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 03:13PM)
Some quotes from: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/30/business/impossible-meat-shortage/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0oDjQuj0KTrIvJ9eyk_8AonuKEEqlQmIaAjQz1mk6dgjD3iwmF9T4enpA

"Interest in Impossible Foods' plant-based meat alternative is growing so much that the company is struggling to keep up, the company said Tuesday. The acknowledgment comes just after the company expanded its partnership with Burger King."

"In a statement, Impossible said that it "recognizes the inconvenience that this shortage is causing and sincerely apologizes to all customers, particularly those who have come to depend on the additional foot traffic and revenue that the Impossible Burger has generated."

"Impossible added that it is not facing a shortage of the ingredients it uses to make the plant-based meat. "We are facing short-term ramp-up challenges resulting from demand greatly outstripping supply," it said.

To keep up with demand, Impossible is increasing the number of hours its Oakland, California, plant is open. It's also hiring for a planned third shift. And it is installing a second production line that the company says "should double current capacity."

"Until the shortage is resolved, Impossible is encouraging its fans to call ahead to see if their restaurant has the meat in stock."


-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 03:21PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
"Until the shortage is resolved, Impossible is encouraging its fans to call ahead to see if their restaurant has the meat in stock."[/quote]
If it's not meat, why do they call it meat?

I wonder if in the hula hoop manufacturers in the late '50s issued similar press releases.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 03:26PM)
Because "meat" is not synonymous with "flesh", at least it wasn't until about a hundred years ago with the rise of the factory farm and all their lobbying and advertising money. Your belief system is the result of their propaganda.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 1, 2019 03:34PM)
[b]flesh [/b]
Word forms: 3rd person singular present tense fleshes , present participle fleshing , past tense, past participle fleshed

1. uncountable noun
Flesh is the soft part of a person's or animal's body between the bones and the skin.
...maggots which eat away dead flesh.
...the pale pink flesh of trout and salmon.
Synonyms: meat, food

2. uncountable noun
You can use flesh to refer to human skin and the human body, especially when you are considering it in a sexual way.
...the warmth of her flesh.
...the sins of the flesh.

3. uncountable noun
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft inside part of it.
Cut the flesh from the olives and discard the stones.
Synonyms: pulp, soft part, fleshy part
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 03:35PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Because "meat" is not synonymous with "flesh", at least it wasn't until about a hundred years ago with the rise of the factory farm and all their lobbying and advertising money.[/quote]
One hundred years is enough to establish a word's meaning, isn't it?

And meat was used as a synonym for flesh much longer ago than only 100 years.

Furthermore, I'm quite certain that your claim was not the company's thinking when they decided to call it meat.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 03:43PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
One hundred years is enough to establish a word's meaning, isn't it?
[/quote]

Long enough to change the public's perception of it's meaning. Your belief that "meat" is something that comes only from animals is a lie, it is just not true.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 03:45PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
One hundred years is enough to establish a word's meaning, isn't it?[/quote]
Your belief that "meat" is something that comes only from animals is a lie, it is just not true.[/quote]
As is your belief that you're not an animal.

As is your belief that whales and dolphins aren't mammals.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 1, 2019 03:46PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
"Until the shortage is resolved, Impossible is encouraging its fans to call ahead to see if their restaurant has the meat in stock."[/quote]
If it's not meat, why do they call it meat?

I wonder if in the hula hoop manufacturers in the late '50s issued similar press releases. [/quote]

"Meat SUBSTITUTE," proving that vegans want to eat something that tastes like meat because that won't (or can't) eat the real stuff!
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 03:51PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
"Until the shortage is resolved, Impossible is encouraging its fans to call ahead to see if their restaurant has the meat in stock."[/quote]
If it's not meat, why do they call it meat?

I wonder if in the hula hoop manufacturers in the late '50s issued similar press releases.[/quote]
"Meat SUBSTITUTE," proving that vegans want to eat something that tastes like meat because that won't (or can't) eat the real stuff![/quote]
So they don't really think that it's meat, but JoeJoe does.

Evidently they know more about this than JoeJoe.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 03:54PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
And meat was used as a synonym for flesh much longer ago than only 100 years.
[/quote]

According to Merriam Webster, the first use of the word "meat" was in the twelfth-century and listed it's first definition as "food, especially solid food as distinguished from drink".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meat

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 03:57PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
And meat was used as a synonym for flesh much longer ago than only 100 years.[/quote]
According to Merriam Webster, the first use of the word "meat" was in the twelfth-century and listed it's first definition as "food, especially solid food as distinguished from drink".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meat [/quote]
Interesting, but, as usual, not on point.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 04:02PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
Interesting, but, as usual, not on point. [/quote]

What are you talking about, you just told me meat has to come from animals by it's definition ... that is a lie, I just showed you that. The word "meat" was first used to mean "food", the most significant portion of what you eat is the meat of your diet.

But the factory farm gave your government who knows how much money to buy their product and give it to you and tell you it is the only meat there is - and that you must eat it to be healthy.

It is a lie. It is not true.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 1, 2019 04:15PM)
Another face to foot technique as has been pointed out.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 06:15PM)
"give it to you" meaning your "school lunch". We were taught to eat meat by previous generations.

I've heard schools in California are now offering students vegan options, so things are going to change.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 07:32PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
Interesting, but, as usual, not on point.[/quote]
What are you talking about, you just told me meat has to come from animals by it's definition . . . .[/quote]
I told you no such thing.

I did say that [b][i]one[/i][/b] definition of [i]meat[/i] is animal flesh. You said that it's meant that for only 100 years. But your citation didn't say anything about when it was first used to mean animal flesh, so it's not on point.

As usual.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
. . . that is a lie, I just showed you that.[/quote]
Only because you conveniently chose to omit all other definitions of the word.

By the way, if you don't like me using the word [i]meat[/i] to mean animal flesh, you have only yourself to blame: in the title of [url=https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=666266&forum=32]this[/url] thread, [b][i]you[/i][/b] used it to mean animal flesh:

[b]Every meat eater wants to be a vegan and I can prove it to you[/b]

You're the one who established the working definition of [i]meat[/i] for these threads, and that definition is [i]animal flesh[/i].
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 07:37PM)
But I don't go by strict dictionary word use like you do ... I think everyone here understands that when I say "meat eater" they know I am referring to people that eat animal meat.

You however, for whatever reason, insist on using the dictionary to say I am wrong ... please stop, Seriously - I am not here to play word games, please stop wasting my time, glad we had that conversation and even even more glad that is is now over, thank you very much. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 07:41PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
But I don't go by strict dictionary word use like you do . . . .[/quote]
Of course you don't.

You use it to mean one thing when you want it to and another when you want it to, but God forbid that someone else try to do the same.

It's pathetic.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 07:43PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Seriously - I am not here to play word games, please stop wasting my time, glad we had that conversation and even even more glad that is is now over, thank you very much. :) [/quote]
Nor am I.

If you stop writing stupid stuff, I promise to stop saying that it's stupid.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 07:44PM)
What exactly if your beef with me?? What word did I change the meaning of that you disagree with?? And in what way does that make "you right and me wrong"??

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 1, 2019 07:45PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
...I am not here to play word games[/quote]


Most ironic post of the year.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 07:53PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
What exactly if your beef with me?? What word did I change the meaning of that you disagree with?? And in what way does that make "you right and me wrong"??
[/quote]

That I am a "human being" and not an "animal"??

Animals cannot "talk" nor can they "count" ... I can do both. That means I am not an animal.

I don't care what words you use or definitions your dictionary gives you ... I am not an animal and I will not let anyone treat me like I am an animal.

I don't care what your books say. If your books tell you I am an animal, then they are lying to you - I am telling you I am not an animal - I have that ability, an animal does not. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 1, 2019 08:10PM)
Wow.

Talking is simply a form of communicating. Animals do that all the time. I have a friend who is unable to talk. Does this mean he is not human? Several primitive tribes may not be able to count, are they not human?

The things you point out are in no way indicative of humanity. Your apparent inability to learn seems odd in a creature as evolved as you claim to be. My dog learns very quickly.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 1, 2019 08:12PM)
Animals cannot "talk" nor can they "count".

Incorrect. There is a species of Hominid from the Order Primata of the Class Mammalia that can do just that. They are called Homo Sapiens. Fascinating animals.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 08:14PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
What exactly if your [b][i]beef[/i][/b] with me??[/quote]
That's a good one!

No sarcasm at all; I mean that sincerely.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
What word did I change the meaning of that you disagree with??[/quote]
[i]Meat[/i].

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
And in what way does that make "you right and me wrong"??[/quote]
When did anyone say that I'm right and you're wrong?

You're starting to sound paranoid.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 1, 2019 08:16PM)
" I have that ability, an animal does not."
It must. You just said it.
  
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 1, 2019 08:16PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Wow.

Talking is simply a form of communicating. Animals do that all the time. I have a friend who is unable to talk. Does this mean he is not human? Several primitive tribes may not be able to count, are they not human?

The things you point out are in no way indicative of humanity. Your apparent inability to learn seems odd in a creature as evolved as you claim to be. My dog learns very quickly. [/quote]


Ever have an argument with a 4 year old?
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 08:25PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
What exactly if your beef with me?? What word did I change the meaning of that you disagree with?? And in what way does that make "you right and me wrong"??[/quote]
That I am a "human being" and not an "animal"??

Animals cannot "talk" nor can they "count" ... I can do both.[/quote]
Some animals can. Human beings, for example. And other primates can certainly count.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
That means I am not an animal.[/quote]
No: it means that you have a poor understanding of what it means to be an animal.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I don't care what words you use or definitions your dictionary gives you.[/quote]
That's abundantly clear.

That's to your detriment, not mine.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I am not an animal and I will not let anyone treat me like I am an animal.[/quote]
How you will let people treat you isn't relevant to this discussion.

Human beings are animals, whether you admit it or not.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I don't care what your books say.[/quote]
That's abundantly clear.

That's to your detriment, not mine.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
If your books tell you I am an animal, then they are lying to you.[/quote]
They're not, but feel free to live in your delusion.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I am telling you I am not an animal.[/quote]
I got that.

And I'm telling you that you're wrong, despite your vehement protestations.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I have that ability, an animal does not.[/quote]
Unless, of course, that animal is a human being.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 08:33PM)
It was a Native American (Little Hawk) that first told me I am a human being and it took me more than twenty-years to figure out what he meant by that.

See this is the problem with the world: people are told they are animals, they believe they are animals, and they end up acting like animals.

Perhaps if they would stop eating animals ... they'd stop acting like animals ... hmmm ...

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 08:36PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
It was a Native American (Little Hawk) that first told me I am a human being and it took me more than twenty-years to figure out what he meant by that.[/quote]
If you figured out that he meant that human beings aren't animals, then you got it wrong.

You keep citing native Americans as if they're infallible.

They're human beings (and, therefore, animals), so they're as fallible as the rest of us.

And, of course, some of us are more fallible than others.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 08:52PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
No: it means that you have a poor understanding of what it means to be an animal.
[/quote]

It means you have a poor understanding of what it means to be a "human being".

It is a Native American concept, the phrase "human being" did not exist in Europe and it's Native American meaning has never been taught to you.

It is about a person being in his "natural state", where he belongs to the Earth and the Earth belongs to him ("we are all one") and he is entitled to food water air shelter etc. That is where the idea of being created equal and having rights to things like life and liberty come from.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 08:57PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
No: it means that you have a poor understanding of what it means to be an animal.[/quote]
It means you have a poor understanding of what it means to be a "human being".[/quote]
It doesn't, but I'm tired of all of this.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
It is a Native American concept, the phrase "human being" did not exist in Europe . . . .[/quote]
Whether the phrase existed in Europe or not doesn't matter. The concept certainly did.

I really feel sorry for you, JoeJoe.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 1, 2019 09:11PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
It was a Native American (Little Hawk) that first told me I am a human being and it took me more than twenty-years to figure out what he meant by that.

See this is the problem with the world: people are told they are animals, they believe they are animals, and they end up acting like animals.

Perhaps if they would stop eating animals ... they'd stop acting like animals ... hmmm ...

-JoeJoe [/quote]
What's wrong with being an animal? Most Native North Americans I know, including my ancestors, revere animals and would never speak poorly of them the way you do and would never consider them inferior to humans as you do.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 1, 2019 09:13PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
No: it means that you have a poor understanding of what it means to be an animal.
[/quote]

It means you have a poor understanding of what it means to be a "human being".

It is a Native American concept, the phrase "human being" did not exist in Europe and it's Native American meaning has never been taught to you.

It is about a person being in his "natural state", where he belongs to the Earth and the Earth belongs to him ("we are all one") and he is entitled to food water air shelter etc. That is where the idea of being created equal and having rights to things like life and liberty come from.

-JoeJoe [/quote]
You are sadly mistaken and have horribly misinterpreted anything and everything you ever thought you learned from Native Americans.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 1, 2019 09:14PM)
I believe these Native Americans (humans) ate (animal) meat as well... did that make them non-humans?

Curious as to how far down this rabbit hole goes...
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 1, 2019 09:19PM)
There is no thought to it. He just makes it up as he goes along.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 1, 2019 09:56PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, magicfish wrote:
What's wrong with being an animal? Most Native North Americans I know, including my ancestors, revere animals and would never speak poorly of them the way you do and would never consider them inferior to humans as you do. [/quote]

Man believes he has dominion over animals, that he can make an animal plow his field and the animal cannot tell him no.

When white man first found black man in Africa, they thought they were animals and took them as slaves. They realized this was a mistake which is why blacks are no longer slaves - they are not animals, they are human beings.

I am not an animal ... I am a human being ... man does not have dominion over me, he cannot make me work ... he has to have my consent.

A part of being a vegan activist is to speak up for those that do not have voices of their own: if a cow could tell you she does not want to give you her milk, she would. She is not an animal, she is a cow being.

A spirit being a cow, a spirit being a human, or a spirit being a tomato. Native Americans believe that when you eat a food, you accept it's spirit into your body and give it consent to alter you. Some spirits don't want to be eaten ... so they make you sick.

Recently, I was at a local farm with a friend and they offered her some fresh eggs. As the lady was collecting the eggs, the chickens were pecking at her and she told my friend "the chicken didn't like me taking her egg" with a slight laugh. The next day, my friend tells me the egg made her stomach feel funny, like she was going to be sick.

And I said "that is because the chicken is mad that you stole her egg".

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 1, 2019 11:04PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I am a human being.[/quote]
Nobody's disputing that.

[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I am not an animal.[/quote]
The more times you say this, the more times you're wrong.
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 2, 2019 01:32AM)
You are both wrong. A human being is not an animal and neither is an animal. Different things are not different words but are different numbers in reality. The word human does not even look like a human but if one draws a human then one has something that looks more like it. That is because it is a pattern/number.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 03:24AM)
Which Native American tribes were vegan again? I have forgotten.

Asfor being a vegan activist as you self proclaim I think the movement would be better served by your silence.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 2, 2019 09:42AM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 1, 2019, magicfish wrote:
What's wrong with being an animal? Most Native North Americans I know, including my ancestors, revere animals and would never speak poorly of them the way you do and would never consider them inferior to humans as you do. [/quote]

Man believes he has dominion over animals, that he can make an animal plow his field and the animal cannot tell him no.

When white man first found black man in Africa, they thought they were animals and took them as slaves. They realized this was a mistake which is why blacks are no longer slaves - they are not animals, they are human beings.

I am not an animal ... I am a human being ... man does not have dominion over me, he cannot make me work ... he has to have my consent.

A part of being a vegan activist is to speak up for those that do not have voices of their own: if a cow could tell you she does not want to give you her milk, she would. She is not an animal, she is a cow being.

A spirit being a cow, a spirit being a human, or a spirit being a tomato. Native Americans believe that when you eat a food, you accept it's spirit into your body and give it consent to alter you. Some spirits don't want to be eaten ... so they make you sick.

Recently, I was at a local farm with a friend and they offered her some fresh eggs. As the lady was collecting the eggs, the chickens were pecking at her and she told my friend "the chicken didn't like me taking her egg" with a slight laugh. The next day, my friend tells me the egg made her stomach feel funny, like she was going to be sick.

And I said "that is because the chicken is mad that you stole her egg".

-JoeJoe [/quote]

So a Duck Billed Platypus is not an animal because we cant make it plow our fields.
Got it.
Now if you'll excuse me I've got to go saddle up my tree frog.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 2, 2019 09:47AM)
Joe Joe speaks of animals in a derogatory disrespectful way as though they are inferior. He is ashamed to be one.
No Native tribe would ever agree with this.
Animals are revered. They, and I, are proud to be among them.
Shame on you Joe Joe.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 2, 2019 10:29AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, magicfish wrote:
So a Duck Billed Platypus is not an animal because we cant make it plow our fields.
[/quote]

A duck is an animal because it cannot use it's mouth to say "no" when man takes it's eggs.

So while you lie to people by telling them I don't respect animals, the truth is I respect animals very much ... to the point where I realize there is no need to kill one for food because there are better options available to me.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 2, 2019 10:46AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 2, 2019, magicfish wrote:
So a Duck Billed Platypus is not an animal because we cant make it plow our fields.
[/quote]

A duck is an animal . . . .[/quote]
Get a clue, JoeJoe: he's not talking about a duck.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 10:50AM)
Again which Native American tribes were vegan again?

Mr recollection is they were fairly dependent upon buffalo. Ruined them when we hunted the beasts to near extinction.

JoeJoe some of us can talk with Native American people because they are relatives. Not imaginary friends. My recollection is they were proud of using every part of an animal.

Oh also http://www.native-languages.org/food.htm .

From the article. " Whether they were farming tribes or not, most Native American tribes had very meat-heavy diets. Favorite meats included buffalo, elk, caribou, deer, and rabbit; salmon and other fish; ducks, geese, turkeys and other birds; clams and other shellfish; and marine mammals like seals or even whales. But almost any animal who lived in the Americas in ancient times was sometimes added to the menu, even animals you might not think of as food like porcupines, monkeys, or snakes. Many Native American tribes had strong beliefs against wasting food, so if they killed an animal for any other reason, they would often try to eat it."

So what propaganda campaign did they fall prey to? Who lied to them?

SO many holes in your theory.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 10:51AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 2, 2019, magicfish wrote:
So a Duck Billed Platypus is not an animal because we cant make it plow our fields.
[/quote]

A duck is an animal . . . .[/quote]
Get a clue, JoeJoe: he's not talking about a duck. [/quote]

Oh I missed that. He though he meant a duck!
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 2, 2019 12:10PM)
The Spirit of the Bean Burrito is angry with me for eating it, as my porcelain art can attest...
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 2, 2019 02:53PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Again which Native American tribes were vegan again?

Mr recollection is they were fairly dependent upon buffalo. Ruined them when we hunted the beasts to near extinction.

JoeJoe some of us can talk with Native American people because they are relatives. Not imaginary friends. My recollection is they were proud of using every part of an animal.
[/quote]

I never ever not once claimed that any Native American Tribes were vegan, as usual you claim I said something and then attempt to tell everyone how I lied - you are just a bully Danny, you should stop that behavior as it is not acceptable.

Many Native American Tribes (most? all?) could not have been vegan simply because there was a lack of vegetation to support their Tribe. They did not have a choice; you have a choice. We have a choice. Burger King just put it on the menu to make it an easier choice for you to make (and it is going to become easier and easier for people to make this choice as more options appear on menus).

And you are correct: they used every part of an animal, they did not throw any part of it away. That is respecting an animal, killing a cow and letting it rot in a cooler wrapped in plastic until it expires and then throwing it into a dumpster as if it's life never had any value or meaning is DISGUSTING!! That is what you are eating - DISGUSTING food!! Not because it is animal, but because of the way man is treating the animals.

You cite a perfect example: white man hunted buffalo to the point of extinction, and they didn't even eat them!! They shot them, and let them lay there and die in the sun as if they were meaningless creatures that had no value what-so-ever. DISGUSTING!! I choose not to eat disgusting food, nobody should want to eat disgusting food.

I am not going to think like a white man so ya'all can just quit trying to convince me I am an animal. Because that is what you are saying to me, that I should think like a white man, no ... I'm going to think like a human being, human beings do not disrespect living creatures like that..

I am not a white man, I am a human being ... does that clarify it enough for you?? Nobody should want to act like white man acted. And yet ... here ya'all are defending white man's ways, that it is okay to waste the life of an animal as if it were garbage. No, that is not acceptable!!

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 02:59PM)
You just shot down every argument you made about history and man's diet. Thank you.

What is with the fake Indian bs now? Man is man white or otherwise. It is the collective knowledge of mankind, not white mankind.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 2, 2019 03:02PM)
The problem with Wimp Lo isn't his fighting technique... but rather that he believes he [b]is[/b] the Chosen One....
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 03:12PM)
And by the way Wimp Lo they did that to the buffalo mostly as a war technique. They knew how much they DEPENDED ON MEAT.

And again I ask which propaganda machine lied to them? Big meat producers didn't exist then did they?

So now you're claiming, as I understand, that since they had no choice it was ok. But now you have a choice so that means we MUST MAKE THAT CHOICE. How does this fit into evolution and all that historical stuff huh?

I get it. You are a true believer. Good for you. Adorable. But you should try facts.

To quote the JoeJoe, "DUH".
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 2, 2019 03:47PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
You just shot down every argument you made about history and man's diet. Thank you.

What is with the fake Indian bs now? Man is man white or otherwise. It is the collective knowledge of mankind, not white mankind. [/quote]


No I did not - I never said man never ate animals, what I am saying is that we do not need to continue eating animals.

Man most likely started eating animals during some ice age or something when there was no vegetation to eat. Or perhaps a flood or some other natural disaster (I've already made these points).

Your belief that because man has eaten animals for however long we have been eating them does not mean we started out eating animals, nor does it mean we have to continue to eat animals.

And it is good to hear you say "Man is man white or otherwise" ... that is why I say "I am not a man" and not "I am not a white man". Black have been assimilated into their system, as well as many Native Americans who now go to white man's school to learn white man's ways.

I find that sad. Instead of teaching them our ways, we should be learning their ways.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 03:58PM)
THEY ATE MEAT! That was their way. Are you trolling? Nobody can be this obtuse.

JoeJoe if you READ instead of making up stories you can find out how and when mankind stated eating meat.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 2, 2019 04:00PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Man most likely started eating animals during some ice age or something when there was no vegetation to eat. Or perhaps a flood or some other natural disaster (I've already made these points)[/quote]
You haven't made any points; you've made a bunch of speculations.

Which are wrong.

Man started eating meat about 2 million years ago. No ice age, no flood, no catastrophe. Just good eatin'.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 2, 2019 04:02PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I find that sad. Instead of teaching them our ways, we should be learning their ways.[/quote]
Shouldn't they say the same thing? "Instead of teaching these white folks our ways, we should be learning their ways."
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 2, 2019 04:09PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
THEY ATE MEAT! That was their way.
[/quote]

I never said they didn't eat meat.

And they did not eat meat the way you eat meat - they never put an animal in a refrigerator or a tin can, they didn't waste anything.

Eating meat is not a way ... the way you eat meat is what I'm talking about. You do not eat meat the same way Native Americans ate meat.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 2, 2019 04:54PM)
Umm JoeJoe please research some. Are you saying that Native American people never preserved food?

Before you look even MORE ridiculous (Yes I freely admit this seems impossible.) please read about how they preserved meat. There were 4 basic ways.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.offthegridnews.com/off-grid-foods/long-term-meat-preservation-the-native-american-way/amp/

Of course they didn't have grocery stores, but they had their version of stuff.

You are little more than a pretender JoeJoe. If even that.
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 2, 2019 05:36PM)
So the vegans will start eating meat come the next ice age.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 2, 2019 06:01PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Umm JoeJoe please research some. Are you saying that Native American people never preserved food?
[/quote]

They never added any chemical preservatives to it - the preservatives you use make it so the food won't break down and decompose on the grocery store shelf, which makes it harder for the body to digest.

They never fed their animals antibiotics ... they didn't need to, they didn't stuff chickens into tiny cages and force them to live in their own fecal matter. As a result, they never had sick birds that needed medicine.

They never fed their animals steroids ... strange habits, let's feed cows chemicals that will make them grow twice as big as they would in nature, and then we will let half of the meat "expire" and throw it away. Tip: don't throw away half your meat, and then you don't need to feed your animals growth hormones (duh). Growth hormones make it possible for a cow to grow without actually feeding it; that is why there are people today that go on diets and they still gain weight.

They also never told a member of the Tribe they couldn't eat, if someone was hungry they fed them. Nobody had to beg the Tribe for food. I don't use plastic bags and I was once stopped by a cop on the way out the store demanding to see my receipt to ensure I paid for my vegetables. I said if you arrest someone for stealing food, make sure you bring them to my house so I can feed them before you do whatever it is you do with hungry people.

You want to keep framing this as is it right or wrong to eat animals ... doesn't matter, look at the animals you are eating and the way you are eating them. Many of the processed vegetables are no better than the animals, like I said ... I wouldn't eat an Impossible Whooper because I don't consider it good food.

This is just step one ... after you realize that you don't want to eat the foods you are eating, then we can start talking about the foods we should want to be eating. It took me years to realize I was eating disgusting food. I'm almost fifty, was vegetarian for eight years, and have been vegan for five years, so yeah ... it takes a while for what I'm saying to sink in, I expect that.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 2, 2019 06:37PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On May 2, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Again which Native American tribes were vegan again?

Mr recollection is they were fairly dependent upon buffalo. Ruined them when we hunted the beasts to near extinction.

JoeJoe some of us can talk with Native American people because they are relatives. Not imaginary friends. My recollection is they were proud of using every part of an animal.
[/quote]

I never ever not once claimed that any Native American Tribes were vegan, as usual you claim I said something and then attempt to tell everyone how I lied - you are just a bully Danny, you should stop that behavior as it is not acceptable.

Many Native American Tribes (most? all?) could not have been vegan simply because there was a lack of vegetation to support their Tribe. They did not have a choice; you have a choice. We have a choice. Burger King just put it on the menu to make it an easier choice for you to make (and it is going to become easier and easier for people to make this choice as more options appear on menus).

And you are correct: they used every part of an animal, they did not throw any part of it away. That is respecting an animal, killing a cow and letting it rot in a cooler wrapped in plastic until it expires and then throwing it into a dumpster as if it's life never had any value or meaning is DISGUSTING!! That is what you are eating - DISGUSTING food!! Not because it is animal, but because of the way man is treating the animals.

You cite a perfect example: white man hunted buffalo to the point of extinction, and they didn't even eat them!! They shot them, and let them lay there and die in the sun as if they were meaningless creatures that had no value what-so-ever. DISGUSTING!! I choose not to eat disgusting food, nobody should want to eat disgusting food.

I am not going to think like a white man so ya'all can just quit trying to convince me I am an animal. Because that is what you are saying to me, that I should think like a white man, no ... I'm going to think like a human being, human beings do not disrespect living creatures like that..

I am not a white man, I am a human being ... does that clarify it enough for you?? Nobody should want to act like white man acted. And yet ... here ya'all are defending white man's ways, that it is okay to waste the life of an animal as if it were garbage. No, that is not acceptable!!

-JoeJoe [/quote]
Joe Joe, let's keep this discussion going. Leave the racism out of it please.
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 2, 2019 07:06PM)
The American bison is the new U.S. national mammal, but its slaughter was once seen as a way to starve Native Americans into submission.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2016/05/the-buffalo-killers/482349/

That is one way of stopping people from eating meat.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 2, 2019 07:28PM)
[quote]On May 2, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[T]hat is what you are saying to me, that I should think like a white man . . . .[/quote]
You stopped four words too late there.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 3, 2019 10:13AM)
Beyond Meat’s shares surge 163% in the first day of trading - and they are still going up:

https://business.financialpost.com/investing/beyond-meat-doubles-in-market-debut-after-241-million-ipo?fbclid=IwAR1vYyHBl5obNCWyqnllNq5al6VO-3az-4kk0emhMdetPWtFZDkwjr_w2uc

This is the first plant-based, meat-alternative company to go public, and it is not even the one that makes the Impossible Whooper. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (May 3, 2019 10:40AM)
So what do you think this proves exactly?
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (May 3, 2019 11:23AM)
[quote]On May 3, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Beyond Meat’s shares surge 163% in the first day of trading - and they are still going up:

https://business.financialpost.com/investing/beyond-meat-doubles-in-market-debut-after-241-million-ipo?fbclid=IwAR1vYyHBl5obNCWyqnllNq5al6VO-3az-4kk0emhMdetPWtFZDkwjr_w2uc
[/quote]
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

Historically, IPOs have been very disappointing: prices rise quickly from irrational exuberance, then typically drop to below the initial offer.
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 3, 2019 12:24PM)
[quote]On May 3, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
So what do you think this proves exactly? [/quote]


That if plant based stock goes up so does his credibility??
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 3, 2019 01:04PM)
I would not eat one of those things even in an ice age. If they look like the real thing, then I would not eat the real thing either.
Message: Posted by: Alan M (May 4, 2019 06:38PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:

Man believes he has dominion over animals, that he can make an animal plow his field and the animal cannot tell him no.

When white man first found black man in Africa, they thought they were animals and took them as slaves. They realized this was a mistake which is why blacks are no longer slaves - they are not animals, they are human beings.

I am not an animal ... I am a human being ... man does not have dominion over me, he cannot make me work ... he has to have my consent.

A part of being a vegan activist is to speak up for those that do not have voices of their own: if a cow could tell you she does not want to give you her milk, she would. She is not an animal, she is a cow being.

A spirit being a cow, a spirit being a human, or a spirit being a tomato. Native Americans believe that when you eat a food, you accept it's spirit into your body and give it consent to alter you. Some spirits don't want to be eaten ... so they make you sick.

Recently, I was at a local farm with a friend and they offered her some fresh eggs. As the lady was collecting the eggs, the chickens were pecking at her and she told my friend "the chicken didn't like me taking her egg" with a slight laugh. The next day, my friend tells me the egg made her stomach feel funny, like she was going to be sick.

And I said "that is because the chicken is mad that you stole her egg".

-JoeJoe [/quote]

Regarding your egg example, is the converse true? If I eat a fresh egg from my local farm and don’t feel sick, does this mean the chicken is not mad that I took her egg? She’s cool with it?

When my daughter gets sick drinking a glass of milk and I drink the same milk from the same glass without consequence, does that mean the cow likes me better than my daughter? Or maybe just a confused cow?
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (May 4, 2019 06:49PM)
Does the mouse make the cat feel sick via spirit powers? Chickens and Foxes?

The answer is, of course, only if the Cat and Fox are white.
Message: Posted by: tommy (May 4, 2019 08:03PM)
Everybody in the mystery knows that the body magically transforms food into thought, which can affect the spirit. Little green men - have you seen one?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 22, 2019 07:19AM)
Interesting video on the "science" of the Impossible Burger, they seem to have done more homework than anyone here realizes (including myself).

Like ... they use digital something to analyze the flavors in a hamburger, and then they use computers to go through their database of plant flavors so they can get the exact flavors they need to taste the most like animal beef. I think they refer to it as a digital fingerprint for flavor by analyzing the aromas, better just watch the video and let them explain it.

It certainly doesn't make me want to eat one, this is obviously a product that is not being marketed to vegans (which must be why they want it on the animal meat shelf at the grocery store, not the vegan meat shelf).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIiLqNQOgPA

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jun 22, 2019 11:42AM)
[quote]On May 3, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
Beyond Meat’s shares surge 163% in the first day of trading - and they are still going up:

https://business.financialpost.com/investing/beyond-meat-doubles-in-market-debut-after-241-million-ipo?fbclid=IwAR1vYyHBl5obNCWyqnllNq5al6VO-3az-4kk0emhMdetPWtFZDkwjr_w2uc

This is the first plant-based, meat-alternative company to go public, and it is not even the one that makes the Impossible Whooper. :)

-JoeJoe [/quote]

I'm happy for them. Doesn't mean I want their product.
Of course they're doing well, vegans everywhere are looking for a decent meat substitute. The rest of us will make do with the real thing.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jun 22, 2019 01:16PM)
You mean vegans want their veggies to look, feel, smell and taste like a dead animal? Interesting.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 22, 2019 01:20PM)
Yea plus the stock corrected.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 22, 2019 02:32PM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
I'm happy for them. Doesn't mean I want their product.
Of course they're doing well, vegans everywhere are looking for a decent meat substitute. The rest of us will make do with the real thing. [/quote]

No ... we vegans do not want this product, this is a product for animal-meat eaters. They want to make a plant-based hamburger that tastes better than animal-meat, which is why their products are not in the "vegan" isle but rather in the beef isle of the grocery store.

And from what I see in this video, they can pretty easily figure out how to make plants taste like whatever they want. That is what the animals do, they take "grass" and turn it into "beef" ... so there is no reason a scientist can't do the same thing, and because they are not bound by the static digestive track of a cow, the potential to make it taste better is there.

But we vegans ... we want "whole food", not processed junk food - which is pretty much what any "Whooper" is.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 22, 2019 04:28PM)
Meanwhile ... KFC launches a four-month test of a vegan chicken sandwich in the UK and sells out in only four days. That looks better than the Whopper, but I wouldn't want to eat one of them either.

https://vegnews.com/2019/6/vegan-kfc-burger-officially-sold-out-in-four-days

Their CEO once said they would never sell a vegan chicken sandwich ... never say never. :)

It is becoming very obvious to the restaurant industry that in the future if you don't have a vegan option on the menu, you will end up going out of business. It is about already like that in the UK.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 22, 2019 05:11PM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, magicfish wrote:
You mean vegans want their veggies to look, feel, smell and taste like a dead animal? Interesting. [/quote]

I don't know how many times I've told you already ... WE DO NOT!!! I repeat ... WE DO NOT!!

PETA has declared it is impossible for them to get behind the Impossible Burger for one reason (I just found this out myself) ... the burger was tested on rats that were killed.

Which explains why it is not labeled as "vegan", but rather "plant based".

This is NOT a "vegan" burger by any stretch of the imagination ... it was not designed to taste good to vegans, but rather ... to taste good to animal eaters. Hope you enjoy it, but I will not be dining with you. :)

https://www.peta.org/blog/why-it-is-impossible-for-peta-to-get-behind-the-impossible-burger/

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jun 22, 2019 05:22PM)
You're off your rocker? If I want dead plants, I eat them. If I want dead animals. I eat them. I have no hang ups about either.
I don't need specialty items.
I would never eat "plant based, artificial meat"
If you think veggie burgers and veggie dogs are for meat eaters, well you're delusional.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 22, 2019 05:35PM)
[quote]
If you think veggie burgers and veggie dogs are for meat eaters, well you're delusional. [/quote]

Watch the video I just posted and learn something new. The company's objective is not to make a "vegan" burger, but rather to make a plant-based burger that tastes better than beef ... and with the type of technology they are unleashing in that video they are very much capable of doing so.

Where do cows get beef from?? Grass. If a cow can make a plant taste like beef, so can a scientist that has the right technology.

Delusional ... no ... if it is possible to make something taste better than beef, people will eat it. You won't know if you like it or not until after you have tasted it, and until you have tasted it you do not know if you like it or not. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jun 22, 2019 09:34PM)
"that tastes better than beef"

Even better than beef? Are you implying that beef tastes good? I thought it was vile rotting death? Surely they don't need to put in an effort to achieve this. Wouldnt a scoop of old composted corn husks be sufficient?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jun 22, 2019 09:37PM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
I'm happy for them. Doesn't mean I want their product.
Of course they're doing well, vegans everywhere are looking for a decent meat substitute. The rest of us will make do with the real thing. [/quote]

No ... we vegans do not want this product, this is a product for animal-meat eaters. They want to make a plant-based hamburger that tastes better than animal-meat, which is why their products are not in the "vegan" isle but rather in the beef isle of the grocery store.

And from what I see in this video, they can pretty easily figure out how to make plants taste like whatever they want. That is what the animals do, they take "grass" and turn it into "beef" ... so there is no reason a scientist can't do the same thing, and because they are not bound by the static digestive track of a cow, the potential to make it taste better is there.

But we vegans ... we want "whole food", not processed junk food - which is pretty much what any "Whooper" is.

-JoeJoe [/quote]

Unless you can show me that meat sales are down at the same rate that this product's sales are up, then this is being marketed to vegans who desperately wish they could eat meat again!
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Jun 22, 2019 09:43PM)
Right now it is a fad, give it a few months it will become a trend... or be pushed into the background menu.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 04:04AM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, magicfish wrote:
"that tastes better than beef"

Even better than beef? Are you implying that beef tastes good? I thought it was vile rotting death? Surely they don't need to put in an effort to achieve this. Wouldnt a scoop of old composted corn husks be sufficient? [/quote]

Yes, it does taste good ... I used to eat at McDonalds three times a day, breakfast lunch and dinner. The poison has to taste good or people wouldn't eat it.

But just because something tastes good does not make it good; animals die drinking anti-freeze because it tastes really sweet and good.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 05:05AM)
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
Unless you can show me that meat sales are down at the same rate that this product's sales are up, then this is being marketed to vegans who desperately wish they could eat meat again! [/quote]

I don't have to do all that ... here it is straight from the horse's mouth: "Burger King's research indicated that 9 percent of people buying plant-based meat are vegetarian, but 90 percent are meat eaters looking for healthier options".

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/health/Plant-Based-Meat-Soy-Lentil-Green-Vegetables--508067601.html

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 23, 2019 05:22AM)
!984 Doublethink.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 11:13AM)
You ate McDonalds 3 times a day. And having this diet to use as your control group you then go on to guess that the problem with your health was the meat. The meat McDonalds uses for their food. That is representative of all meat.

That is the equivalent of me saying all vegans must be idiots because I found a really idiotic one.

I have to admit you are the most unintentionally hilarious person I have ever come across.

My friend Bob Sheets is a vegan. When asked why he says "at first it was for health reasons, then philosophical reasons, now I just like to make people mad".

Best part is I don't try to make him eat meat and he doesn't try to turn me vegan. Ya know a respect thing.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 11:51AM)
I haven't tried to make anyone do anything here. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, nobody is making you read my posts.

The problems with my health have nothing to do with meat ... they have to do with growth hormones, steroids, antibiotics; nor are they limited to animal products: they also include chemicals fertilizers, weed killers, and preservatives.

It is my belief that virtually all food in the stores are poisoned and unfit for human consumption (and that includes the Impossible Whooper). That is why I grow my own food. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 11:57AM)
If only you would restrict your "belief" to those things based in fact you would seem much more intelligent.

But not every family is unemployed enough to grow their own food.

Also you call yourself an activist and you darn sure ARE tying to convert people. You babble about planting seeds that will grow in people. Don't now pretend you are not trying to convert people. You do know this stuff stays up online right and people can just refer to it?
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Jun 23, 2019 12:10PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
I haven't tried to make anyone do anything here. [/quote]

There is a very long thread that you started [url=https://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=666266&forum=32]HERE[/url] that you seem to contradict... you.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 23, 2019 12:53PM)
But that's OK - it's harmless and non-addictive.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 01:04PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Also you call yourself an activist and you darn sure ARE tying to convert people.[/quote]

I'm not converting anyone ... I am educating them. If you knew what I knew, you wouldn't eat what you eat.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 01:30PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
There is a very long thread that you started HERE that you seem to contradict... you. [/quote]

I said I "can" prove it, I didn't say I am going to nor did I say I am going to make anyone believe me.

You want me to prove it?? Then you would need to eat my food in order for me to do so ... and I know I can, because I have proved it to people that have ate my food.

It is usually after people get bad news from their doctor that they come to me ... a lady I know came to me after a doctor visit and asked "what was that you were saying about diet again??". It was a sad conversation because she realized if she had listened to me years ago she wouldn't have got that bad news from the doctor.

If anyone here is seeing a doctor for whatever reason, feel free to PM me and tell me the problem and I'll give you my thoughts, no charge no obligation. I want my friends to be healthy. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Jun 23, 2019 01:47PM)
[quote]Every meat eater [b]wants[/b] to be a vegan and I can prove it to you. [/quote]

As state before... words have meaning.

Anyway... we're just going around and around in circles...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 02:15PM)
Oh yea eating your way nobody would ever get bad news from a doctor. Do you really believe your delusions?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 03:11PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
[quote]Every meat eater [b]wants[/b] to be a vegan and I can prove it to you. [/quote]

As state before... words have meaning.
[/quote]

You are using this definition: have a desire to possess or do something.

The word "want" can also be defined as: ought, should, or need to do something ("you want to be more careful"). Would everyone SHOULD be vegan be better?? Or everyone NEEDS to be vegan work for you??

It can also mean "To have an inclination toward", so while someone may want to eat animals, they can also want to be a vegan (Tommy's post: "double think").

Definition six from the "free dictionary": to be without, lack. That is a good one, because there very much is a lack of vegan food available, everyone should at the very least want the option to be available, who in their right mind would want to limit their options??

Another definition of "want": To be in need of; require (your hair wants cutting said the Hatter) ... I wonder how many barbers have been chewed out because they used the word "want"??

Dictionary dot com has it meaning "to be deficient by the absence of some part or thing" ... no doubt you are deficient in vegan options, a huge part of the problem is you can't be vegan because there are not enough options, and who in their right mind would want to do something they know they can't do?? If you lived in a vegan culture your desire to eat meat would also be limited by your options - few people here really choose their diet, we ate what they fed us as we grew up, your parents decided what you wanted.

Merriam Webster has a definition not included in the other dictionaries: to hunt or seek in order to apprehend (wanted for murder) ... you'd think that would be in all of the dictionaries?? Amazing that even the dictanies don't agree on what words mean. Our languages have been confounded you know?? ;)



So ... you have anything to contribute to the conversation, or do we just want to continue questioning my English skills??

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 03:36PM)
Get some English skills so we can discuss them.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 23, 2019 05:50PM)
Whooper is whopper in English meaning big.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 06:53PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
[quote]Every meat eater [b]wants[/b] to be a vegan and I can prove it to you. [/quote]

As state before... words have meaning.
[/quote]

You are using this definition: have a desire to possess or do something.

The word "want" can also be defined as: ought, should, or need to do something ("you want to be more careful"). Would everyone SHOULD be vegan be better?? Or everyone NEEDS to be vegan work for you??

It can also mean "To have an inclination toward", so while someone may want to eat animals, they can also want to be a vegan (Tommy's post: "double think").

Definition six from the "free dictionary": to be without, lack. That is a good one, because there very much is a lack of vegan food available, everyone should at the very least want the option to be available, who in their right mind would want to limit their options??

Another definition of "want": To be in need of; require (your hair wants cutting said the Hatter) ... I wonder how many barbers have been chewed out because they used the word "want"??

Dictionary dot com has it meaning "to be deficient by the absence of some part or thing" ... no doubt you are deficient in vegan options, a huge part of the problem is you can't be vegan because there are not enough options, and who in their right mind would want to do something they know they can't do?? If you lived in a vegan culture your desire to eat meat would also be limited by your options - few people here really choose their diet, we ate what they fed us as we grew up, your parents decided what you wanted.

Merriam Webster has a definition not included in the other dictionaries: to hunt or seek in order to apprehend (wanted for murder) ... you'd think that would be in all of the dictionaries?? Amazing that even the dictanies don't agree on what words mean. Our languages have been confounded you know?? ;)



So ... you have anything to contribute to the conversation, or do we just want to continue questioning my English skills??

-JoeJoe [/quote]

Actually none of these definitions work either. Want to keep going to prove what ridiculous lengths you will go to just to avoid being wrong in your own delusion? Dude you are hilarious!
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Jun 23, 2019 07:47PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, tommy wrote:
Whooper is whopper in English meaning big.[/quote]
I believe that he's talking about a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooping_cough]cough[/url].

Or a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooping_crane]crane[/url].

But it could, of course, be a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooper_swan]swan[/url].
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jun 23, 2019 08:45PM)
This guy doesn't like any of it:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06/21/fake-food-fake-meat-big-foods-desperate-attempt-to-further-the-industrialisation-of-food/
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 23, 2019 08:51PM)
Well speaking for everybody, so say all of us.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jun 23, 2019 09:39PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]On Jun 22, 2019, ed rhodes wrote:
Unless you can show me that meat sales are down at the same rate that this product's sales are up, then this is being marketed to vegans who desperately wish they could eat meat again! [/quote]

I don't have to do all that ... here it is straight from the horse's mouth: "Burger King's research indicated that 9 percent of people buying plant-based meat are vegetarian, but 90 percent are meat eaters looking for healthier options".

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/health/Plant-Based-Meat-Soy-Lentil-Green-Vegetables--508067601.html

-JoeJoe [/quote]

If I wanted a "healthier alternative," I would start by not eating at Burger King. I'd make my own burger at home, and it wouldn't be some nasty, sponge like, fake burger.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 23, 2019 10:20PM)
Yes, but who is going to kill the rabbit?
Message: Posted by: Animated Puppets (Jun 23, 2019 10:25PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, tommy wrote:
Yes, but who is going to kill the rabbit? [/quote]

[youtube]ftIAGMe_2us[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 11:08PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, landmark wrote:
This guy doesn't like any of it:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06/21/fake-food-fake-meat-big-foods-desperate-attempt-to-further-the-industrialisation-of-food/ [/quote]

Great article, thanks for posting! I wholeheartedly agree with her (Dr Vandana Shiva is female); I believe I am on record on this forum as saying many of the same things she posted:

"Good Food and Real Food are the basis of health" ... the food pyramid is a lie, it suggests you can eat bad food like meat and dairy because you are going to balance it with good foods like fruits and vegetables; if you want to improve your health, then stop eating the bad foods and only eat the good foods. Everything you eat is either healing you or hurting you; there is no middle ground.

"Bad food, industrial food, fake food is the basis of disease" ... exactly, it is not possible for a healthy human being to get sick, if you get sick it is because of something you ate (or drank touched inhaled etc). There is nothing within the human body to make you sick, all disease comes from outside the body.

"Hippocrates said Let food be thy medicine" ... there is only one medicine: food. Drugs do not heal disease, if you want to treat symptoms get drugs from a doctor, but if you want to actually heal disease eat healthy food.



So why would I promote a fake hamburger that I know is not "healthy"?? If you are in America and are eating from the processed food menu, then this would be a step in the right direction. We know that animal meat has growth hormones, steroids, antibiotics, not to mention all the diseases the animals acquire while confined in their unsanitary cages at the factory horror farm.

But the recently acquired knowledge of the genetic modifications used to create the Impossible Whopper makes me question if it should be eaten at all?? The reason for the rat testing is because it contains a new chemical that has never existed in the food supply ever before ... the long term effects of this new food are completely unknown and can't be predicted.



Now if you want a good vegan burger, I can suggest the Sunshine Burger: made with organic whole ingredients ... only five ingredients: rice, sunflower seeds, carrots, chives, and salt. I used to make my own using peanut butter instead of sunflower seeds, but the sunflower seed version does taste better.

https://www.sunshineburger.com/products/garden-herb/



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 23, 2019 11:16PM)
So ALL meat is bad according to you? Meat does nothing to help one actually stay alive?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 23, 2019 11:59PM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
So ALL meat is bad according to you? Meat does nothing to help one actually stay alive? [/quote]

I consider all meat from the grocery store to be bad; even if some of it is good, you have no way to know which meat is bad or which meat is good. Maybe the cow you are eating was in good health, maybe it wasn't?? Once it is ground up and put into a can or box, you have no idea what you are eating. Do some research ... there are chemicals they put on the meat so it will stay red and look good even after it goes bad.

The same thing with vegetables actually ... you have no idea if the tomatoes in your can had fungus growing all over them or not. That is why I grow my own food, so I will know if my food is good or bad. Here is a long video of a garden tour, I queued it up to an interview with the gardener where he says something along the lines of this:

"you hear all this about bad food and its organic or its not really organic ... so I said okay, I'm giving someone else responsibility for my life, so decided that I will grow and if I grow bad or good I will be the master of my own fate rather than trusting the labels on some cans or produce out there and then blame someone else, so I want to take the blame and assign the responsibility to myself"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSU3JZnyG_E&feature=youtu.be&t=2233

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 24, 2019 12:21AM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
So ALL meat is bad according to you? Meat does nothing to help one actually stay alive? [/quote]

The last piece of meat I ate was from given to me by a hunter who owned a deer farm; that was about five years ago ... I don't think I would eat deer today. Why not??

A deadly deer disease is spreading. Could it strike people, too?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2019/06/14/deadly-deer-disease-is-spreading-could-it-strike-people-too/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.895bdab0f87d

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 24, 2019 01:02AM)
Yea thanks for giving us your religious beliefs.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 24, 2019 01:45AM)
Venison is what we call the meat of a deer.

A deer is a game animal and so a hunter who owned a deer farm sounds odd.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 24, 2019 05:49AM)
[quote]On Jun 24, 2019, tommy wrote:
A deer is a game animal and so a hunter who owned a deer farm sounds odd. [/quote]

Why odd?? He owns a hundred acres of woods that have deer living on it ... so he plants stuff they can eat and hunts them. Very common in my area, lots of hunters in the south ... lots of hunters, lots of woods, lots of deer.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 24, 2019 07:23AM)
There is a difference between a deer park and a deer farm. There are quite a few old deer parks here in Britain. Most of our Venison in the shops, however, comes from New Zealand where deer are farmed I believe. It is something to do with the law and subsidies. We do not hunt farm animals now do we?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 24, 2019 08:17AM)
If they are confined to a one-hundred acre of land ... and their water source is directly in sight of the deer stand ... than I don't actually consider that "hunting". It is not like his deer are forging food in the wild, he planted food specifically for them so that is a form of "farming" ... "free-range farming" to be exact.

For the most part, selling wild game in America is illegal ... Arby's is selling deer-burgers in a couple of states claiming they are "deer from a free-range farm". Apparently, farming deer is cost prohibitive so it is uncommon to find deer meat for sale.

Some states allow hunters to sell deer, but historically that hasn't been allowed due to the decline in deer population after the American Revolution. But states are relaxing those restrictions as the populations have recovered, so deer meat may be making it's way to the stores and restaurants.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jun 24, 2019 09:07AM)
As a rule, one can "field shoot" a deer but not a cow. Cows and the like are normally killed at an abattoir.
Message: Posted by: Magic_son (Jul 1, 2019 04:51AM)
I didn’t realize selling wild game was illegal. I have two neighbors who raise deer (maybe that is why it is not wild), and sell to big game preserves out west. They guarantee that you will see deer (they used to guarantee you would Bag a 5 pointer or more, but people couldn’t shoot).
Message: Posted by: tommy (Jul 1, 2019 05:54AM)
It is not illegal in Scotland where Venison is normally marked up as "field shoot": wild animals are said to be the best meat. However, there are a lot of rules about it. In order to maintain a healthy and sustainable population of 600 red and fallow deer of mixed ages and sexes in Richmond Park, the female deer are selectively culled in November and the male deer are selectively culled in February.
Message: Posted by: imgic (Jul 29, 2019 01:31PM)
One of my favorite memories of time spent in the southern states was driving the back roads of Georgia while stationed there. Often folks would take scrap plywood and put up signs for roadside stands selling "Pork Skins" or "Boiled Peanuts" or "Hand Pies." On one particularly desolate road I saw a beat up hunk of wood. Corners chewed up, and hand painted on it was "Meat Skins."

I did not stop to find out what kind of meat....
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jul 30, 2019 04:37PM)
Https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-24/no-beyond-burrito-chipotle-s-ceo-says-faux-meat-s-too-processed
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 31, 2019 02:05PM)
Yeah, it looks like crap to me, too. But so does what it's replacing. Either will make a meal, but I don't think anyone on a steady diet of either is going to be beating the actuarial tables.
Message: Posted by: RS1963 (Aug 5, 2019 01:42PM)
By the way grill was mentioned a couple of times. B.K. does not grill anything. The burgers are all flame broiled. French Fries, Fish Chicken do have their own vats but if it is a very busy time period i.e. busy holiday. Depending sometimes all of the vats are used for everything fish chicken, fries and even the tacos when B.K. has them ever so often. I worked at a B.K. I know