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Topic: Turnover using only four cards
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (May 11, 2019 10:58PM)
In doing a certain trick (that shall remain nameless) I'm holding four cards and need to turnover the top two cards while making it appear I'm turning over only the top card. The initial turnover part of a double lift is difficult enough while holding a full deck. I'm struggling trying to turnover the top two cards when there are only four cards in my hand.

It seems too thin to try to establish a break and too few cards in your hand to push off with the thumb. Does anyone have a suggestion of a technique to be able to isolate then grab the top two cards so I can then turn them over?
Message: Posted by: j100taylor (May 11, 2019 11:27PM)
Brother John Hammens book teaches this well
Message: Posted by: Ado (May 11, 2019 11:40PM)
Double buckle, double pinkie pull, spread top two cards then get a break and pull back, injog 2nd card before putting the last one on top, etc. Plenty of solutions. Which one is best depends on what's happening before you need that DL...

P!
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (May 11, 2019 11:46PM)
[quote]On May 11, 2019, j100taylor wrote:
Brother John Hammens book teaches this well [/quote]

Co-signed! Check the big Hamman book for the technique you're seeking.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 12, 2019 08:24AM)
I've taught a few methods for this throughout my writings. Start reading the good stuff, guys!
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (May 12, 2019 08:54AM)
Hold the packet in dealing grip. With your left thumb, gently start a push off of the top three cards. They will brush against the left second finger.
Approach the packet with your palm down right hand. With your right second finger, perform a stud turnover of the top two cards. With the proper pressures, the third card should remain on your left second finger. Performed at the proper speed, it looks like you merely stud turnover the top card.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 12, 2019 10:14AM)
Two No-Get-Ready Lifts From A 4-Card Packet - ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, page 218. And I've taught other methods in other APOCALYPSE issues, and touched on the idea in the Quantum Leaps section of LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTIONM Vol. 3. Forgive the repetition, please, but - you really do have to start reading the good stuff!!
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (May 13, 2019 07:58AM)
[quote]On May 11, 2019, Ado wrote:
Double buckle, double pinkie pull, spread top two cards then get a break and pull back, injog 2nd card before putting the last one on top, etc. Plenty of solutions. Which one is best depends on what's happening before you need that DL...

P! [/quote]

Great solutions. Of course a lot of it depends upon what the trick is. Why is it nameless? If there are gimmicked cards then you might not be able to turn them over or spread them completely, so some solutions are out.
I would likely go with the double buckle. Quick, easy and nothing to see. Don't exaggerate the buckle too much. No need to.
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (May 14, 2019 07:59AM)
Great ideas. Sadly, Brother John Hamman's book is not readily available. I could get it from Amazon if willing to drop $179 for it. Gulp! I couldn't find any videos showing the buckle/double-buckle move but will check the Card College videos I just got to see if it is performed there.

I've carefully watched the handling of four cards by one of my favorite magicians. It would appear his left thumb applies pressure at the corner using the inside of the thumb, although I could be mistaken.

I tried doing that and noticed the cards open up on the opposite side ever so slightly allowing me to feel, then grab two cards more easily for the DL.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (May 14, 2019 08:14AM)
[quote]On May 14, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Great ideas. Sadly, Brother John Hamman's book is not readily available. I could get it from Amazon if willing to drop $179 for it. Gulp! I couldn't find any videos showing the buckle/double-buckle move but will check the Card College videos I just got to see if it is performed there.

I've carefully watched the handling of four cards by one of my favorite magicians. It would appear his left thumb applies pressure at the corner using the inside of the thumb, although I could be mistaken.

I tried doing that and noticed the cards open up on the opposite side ever so slightly allowing me to feel, then grab two cards more easily for the DL. [/quote]

What NicholasD describes above is essentially the Hamman technique. It's extremely natural in appearance and nearly automatic.
Message: Posted by: NicholasD (May 14, 2019 09:35AM)
A good trick for learning and practicing no get ready single, double and triple turnovers in quick succession is Jumping Gemini.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 14, 2019 11:21AM)
[quote]On May 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On May 14, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Great ideas. Sadly, Brother John Hamman's book is not readily available. I could get it from Amazon if willing to drop $179 for it. Gulp! I couldn't find any videos showing the buckle/double-buckle move but will check the Card College videos I just got to see if it is performed there.

I've carefully watched the handling of four cards by one of my favorite magicians. It would appear his left thumb applies pressure at the corner using the inside of the thumb, although I could be mistaken.

I tried doing that and noticed the cards open up on the opposite side ever so slightly allowing me to feel, then grab two cards more easily for the DL. [/quote]

What NicholasD describes above is essentially the Hamman technique. It's extremely natural in appearance and nearly automatic. [/quote]
Not quite. Nothing "opens up" in the Hamman Technique.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Pupkin (May 14, 2019 11:26AM)
[quote]On May 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
[quote]On May 14, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
[quote]On May 14, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Great ideas. Sadly, Brother John Hamman's book is not readily available. I could get it from Amazon if willing to drop $179 for it. Gulp! I couldn't find any videos showing the buckle/double-buckle move but will check the Card College videos I just got to see if it is performed there.

I've carefully watched the handling of four cards by one of my favorite magicians. It would appear his left thumb applies pressure at the corner using the inside of the thumb, although I could be mistaken.

I tried doing that and noticed the cards open up on the opposite side ever so slightly allowing me to feel, then grab two cards more easily for the DL. [/quote]

What NicholasD describes above is essentially the Hamman technique. It's extremely natural in appearance and nearly automatic. [/quote]
Not quite. Nothing "opens up" in the Hamman Technique. [/quote]

Huh? NicholasD never mentioned anything "opening up".
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 14, 2019 12:28PM)
Magicwiia, if I get time I will shoot a small clip of the sleight and send it your way.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 14, 2019 12:53PM)
Here you are sir. PM me if you have any questions.

Https://youtu.be/Vz9zv59jbkc
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 14, 2019 12:54PM)
Harry Lorayne has published this technique as well.
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (May 14, 2019 02:10PM)
Thanks Magicfish, I really appreciate it.
Message: Posted by: kShepher (May 14, 2019 05:06PM)
That's very nice Magicfish. Very smooth. You sent me right back to Jawdroppers 2. I can't do it that smooth. I do the Hamman, which is very similar, but you don't really have any separation between the bottom card and the block.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 14, 2019 09:22PM)
[quote]On May 14, 2019, kShepher wrote:
That's very nice Magicfish. Very smooth. You sent me right back to Jawdroppers 2. I can't do it that smooth. I do the Hamman, which is very similar, but you don't really have any separation between the bottom card and the block. [/quote]
Thankyou my friend.
I never let JawDroppers Two get too far away from me. I love that book.
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (May 17, 2019 11:53AM)
Check out Stephen Hobbs' Technical Toolbox. He has an excellent comprehensive approach to packet counts called control grip. Propriety prevents me from tipping the method here.

Magicfish--totally clean.
Message: Posted by: Laughing (May 17, 2019 02:31PM)
Magicwiia, I came up with a packet trick that mimics whiplash with no gimmicks. In any event it requires a double lift from a pack of 4 cards, and I initially had a problem with this. I covered the get ready with patter : "At the end of this trick every one says I had more than 4 cards I don't and I count the cards (this does revers them). Then I spread the 4 cards saying "Only 4 cards" as I put the packet back together I get my break.

Even 2 years later when I can do a push of DL, for this one trick I use the same get ready.
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (May 17, 2019 08:12PM)
Thank you for sharing. I've been trying to do the double lift without a break. An instantaneous DL. It's becoming clearer to me I better adjust my strategy and start using a break until I'm farther along the experience timeline.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 17, 2019 09:45PM)
That's the great thing about Hamman's technique, there is no break, no buckle, and no double push off.
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (Jul 15, 2019 07:39PM)
When doing this small-packet DL technique, is it easier with a new or used deck?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Jul 15, 2019 10:19PM)
The cards can be older or newer. Preferably not too sticky however. You'll want a deck in decent condition.
Message: Posted by: Bob G (Jul 22, 2019 01:51PM)
I found the following resource fun and really helpful: www.edhassmagic.com/eds-head. For this thread's topic, look for February 2014.
Message: Posted by: Bob G (Jul 22, 2019 03:29PM)
Magicwilia, I sent you a PM.


Bob
Message: Posted by: magicwiia (Jul 22, 2019 07:12PM)
Bob - That is an amazing resource and find. Thank you! I just spent a little time with it and now understand the move. I have seen or read several other resources regarding the small-packet DL but none described the move in such vivid detail.

This is a treasure trove of sleight-of-hand moves which are described and illustrated. An Index is included which makes finding a move easy. The 4-card packet move is now bookmarked specifically and the main Table of Contents, generally.

Thanks again Bob, you're the best!!
Message: Posted by: Bob G (Jul 23, 2019 11:09AM)
Very glad to be of help, Magicwilia. People have helped me *a lot* during my two years on the Café. If I can help others occasionally, even at my "toddler" stage in magic, I'm happy.


Bob