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Topic: Taken by The Other Brothers
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 21, 2019 01:23PM)
Has anyone seen this.

https://youtu.be/uQo6sINNy-0

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Oct 21, 2019 02:51PM)
Wow, those guys are working hard (which is awesome)!!
Message: Posted by: Nick-V. (Oct 21, 2019 02:57PM)
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 21, 2019 03:24PM)
Assuming itís electronics of sorts.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 21, 2019 03:30PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

Even a mile away.

😜
Message: Posted by: Nick-V. (Oct 21, 2019 05:27PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Steven Conner wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

Even a mile away.

😜 [/quote]
If all that is true. .. then sales will be up!!!
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Oct 21, 2019 05:52PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

You can't get your peek in another room. They can write it down in another room.
Message: Posted by: dj (Oct 21, 2019 05:57PM)
The Demo video says absolutely nothing.
Again and again such demo videos, where only a lot of talking but nothing is shown.
I find it very interesting that everyone likes it, although nobody knows anything about the method.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 21, 2019 06:16PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, dj wrote:
The Demo video says absolutely nothing.
Again and again such demo videos, where only a lot of talking but nothing is shown.
I find it very interesting that everyone likes it, although nobody knows anything about the method. [/quote]

That is a true statement, but if we always knew the method, we would probably never buy anything. But in defense, this is why we have a forum to discuss.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: MagicBrent (Oct 21, 2019 08:35PM)
Iíd like to know the cost of this little miracle. :wow:
Message: Posted by: Nick-V. (Oct 21, 2019 08:46PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

You can't get your peek in another room. They can write it down in another room. [/quote]

Oh Ok. Thanks for the info.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 21, 2019 10:07PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

You can't get your peek in another room. They can write it down in another room. [/quote]

But that could be said for any peek device. It wouldnít be worth mentioning if it wasnít possible to actually get your information whilst in another room, or a mile away.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Oct 21, 2019 10:43PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

You can't get your peek in another room. They can write it down in another room. [/quote]

But that could be said for any peek device. It wouldnít be worth mentioning if it wasnít possible to actually get your information whilst in another room, or a mile away. [/quote]

I never said it was worth mentioning.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 22, 2019 10:25AM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2019, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Magicsquared wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, Nick-V. wrote:
Not an impression device. And can get your peek even in another room. Sounds interesting. [/quote]

You can't get your peek in another room. They can write it down in another room. [/quote]

But that could be said for any peek device. It wouldnít be worth mentioning if it wasnít possible to actually get your information whilst in another room, or a mile away. [/quote]

I never said it was worth mentioning. [/quote]

Pegasus never said you said it was worth mentioning. ;)
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 22, 2019 11:14AM)
They can write it down a mile away but you can't p**k the info when they are a mile away?

You'll have to stock up on jokes. That's a lot of dead performance space to fill as you wait for them to travel back from a mile away.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Oct 22, 2019 01:53PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, MagicBrent wrote:
Iíd like to know the cost of this little miracle. :wow: [/quote]

I am guessing that it is not going to be expensive, because P3 stuff is usually pretty affordable.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Oct 22, 2019 01:54PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2019, Martin Pulman wrote:
They can write it down a mile away but you can't p**k the info when they are a mile away?

You'll have to stock up on jokes. That's a lot of dead performance space to fill as you wait for them to travel back from a mile away. [/quote]


Haha. Gotta be careful when we read product descriptions these days...it's like

"spectators can think of any card, and it will appear in a different location" -- spectators can think of any card FROM A SMALL SELECTED PILE
"everything is examinable" -- everything is examinable AFTER YOU DO A SWITCH
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2019 02:32PM)
Surely if they state a mile away, that negates the idea it's electronic...
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 22, 2019 03:03PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2019, IAIN wrote:
Surely if they state a mile away, that negates the idea it's electronic... [/quote]

I assumed they were exaggerating and Iíve told them a million times not to.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 22, 2019 03:14PM)
I'm sure they're not exaggerating. Magic creators never do.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 22, 2019 03:21PM)
I AM curious, though. Stating the whole thing being completely hands off and being "the strongest trick in magic and mentalism" ... ok bro's, let's show what you got. IMO if you talk it up that much and want to keep up your reputation you should deliver...
Message: Posted by: Harley Remington (Oct 22, 2019 05:12PM)
This appears to be a miracle of the highest magnitude! I, for one, eagerly await the opportunity to gleefully give them some cash!
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Oct 22, 2019 10:02PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
I AM curious, though. Stating the whole thing being completely hands off and being "the strongest trick in magic and mentalism" ... ok bro's, let's show what you got. IMO if you talk it up that much and want to keep up your reputation you should deliver... [/quote]

They weren't saying their trick is the strongest trick in magic and mentalism. They were saying that directly revealing what someone is thinking of is the strongest trick in magic and mentalism.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 12:32AM)
Ah. The good old advertising ďI implied that but technically I didnít say thatĒ-trick. Thatís a pity. Just like showing Stasis 360 in the trailer, implying it can be shown 360. Why overpromisevand underdeliver? Stasis was pretty good, but overpromising made it a disappointment for a good number of customers.I hope this will be different.
Message: Posted by: Christian de Punto (Oct 23, 2019 04:25AM)
Curious... indeed.
Message: Posted by: bluesmagic (Oct 23, 2019 11:27AM)
Where is this on Penguin? I can't find it.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 23, 2019 11:32AM)
Will be released sometime this week, not there yet.
Message: Posted by: Alex McFly (Oct 23, 2019 12:35PM)
Same trailer and no further informations

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/12593
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Oct 23, 2019 12:38PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Alex McFly wrote:
Same trailer and no further informations

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/12593 [/quote]

Well the price at least is available.
Message: Posted by: Alex McFly (Oct 23, 2019 12:51PM)
You are right ;-)
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 23, 2019 12:54PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2019, Harley Remington wrote:
This appears to be a miracle of the highest magnitude! I, for one, eagerly await the opportunity to gleefully give them some cash! [/quote]

Well seems really inexpensive. Hmmm.

Iím on the sidelines awaiting solid multiple reviews.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 23, 2019 12:59PM)
Me too.

Letís hope we donít get Ďtakení for a ride with this one.
Message: Posted by: David Klass (Oct 23, 2019 01:06PM)
Following this one with interest :)
Message: Posted by: ryanshaw9572 (Oct 23, 2019 01:10PM)
Iím going to get good at the tricks I already know first. Still havenít got around to doing that.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 01:12PM)
Hi,

Quick info :

I don't know about " miracle of the highest magnitude" but its very good. It's reminds me of something Scott Creasy would do. I believe Docc Hilford had a similar idea with an envelope.
I would describe it as an hand-off Shaxton .



PROS :

ēYou can make the gimmick yourself cheaply (DIY Time : 10 minutes, regular stationery needed)
ē its hands off, the spectator is doing all the work (This is the attribute that sets it apart from predecessors)
ē It improves (in my opinion) the shaxton envelope mainly because of the hand-off-ness.


CONS
ē They cannot retrieve the card from the envelope after the trick (you can fix this after the performance)
ē They cant write more than on the top quarter of the card. (with some re-engineering this could be more)


USES :

ē Well just about any mentalism that requires someone writing a small piece of info on a card and sealing it. With some thinking it could be used for 4DT, a one-on-one Q&A, Phedon's Sybil (for the name part), pin code divination etc.
I would give it 8.5 /10 . I would keep this in my wallet for those times I don't have an impression device on me.
Message: Posted by: Martin Duffy (Oct 23, 2019 01:23PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Assuming itís electronics of sorts. [/quote]

Hardly...it's $30
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 01:28PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Martin Duffy wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Assuming itís electronics of sorts. [/quote]

Hardly...it's $30 [/quote]

The price wasn't revealed yet at that time.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 01:32PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
Hi,

Quick info :

I don't know about " miracle of the highest magnitude" but its very good. It's reminds me of something Scott Creasy would do. I believe Docc Hilford had a similar idea with an envelope.
I would describe it as an hand-off Shaxton .



PROS :

ēYou can make the gimmick yourself cheaply (DIY Time : 10 minutes, regular stationery needed)
ē its hands off, the spectator is doing all the work (This is the attribute that sets it apart from predecessors)
ē It improves (in my opinion) the shaxton envelope mainly because of the hand-off-ness.


CONS
ē They cannot retrieve the card from the envelope after the trick (you can fix this after the performance)
ē They cant write more than on the top quarter of the card. (with some re-engineering this could be more)


USES :

ē Well just about any mentalism that requires someone writing a small piece of info on a card and sealing it. With some thinking it could be used for 4DT, a one-on-one Q&A, Phedon's Sybil (for the name part), pin code divination etc.
I would give it 8.5 /10 . I would keep this in my wallet for those times I don't have an impression device on me. [/quote]

Thanks so much, Mr Dural! Can you tell us more about that "They could fill out the card a mile away and you'd still have the information"?
Message: Posted by: MitchellK (Oct 23, 2019 01:38PM)
This does seem very intriguing. There's a small snippet in the trailer where they hand him the envelope stack. so they keep hold of their envelope at all times. seems interesting - a hands off shaxon that seems examin-able. It looks as if this is a shippable product... so they send props to make? I guess the envelopes which you tweak. I'd be interested to know if this can be made with other envelopes or if the ones supplied are somehow gaffed. If so, will refills be available? envelopes aren't particularly durable.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 01:40PM)
That part is true...They can write the info across the street but you only get the info after they have taken their envelope and put it in their pocket and have you the rest back, as per the demo (0:36 to :040)

Do not expect a real time impression like a M**DB**STER pad
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 01:43PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, MitchellK wrote:
This does seem very intriguing. There's a small snippet in the trailer where they hand him the envelope stack. so they keep hold of their envelope at all times. seems interesting - a hands off shaxon that seems examin-able. It looks as if this is a shippable product... so they send props to make? I guess the envelopes which you tweak. I'd be interested to know if this can be made with other envelopes or if the ones supplied are somehow gaffed. If so, will refills be available? envelopes aren't particularly durable. [/quote]

Yes, as I said its hands off. They pull it out and put it into their pocket. They cannot open the envelope or go "CSI" on it (if they did then you need to work on your audience management).
You should be able to buy what you need from a stationery store and make up the gimmick. there is nothing "fancy" required.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Oct 23, 2019 01:46PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
That part is true...They can write the info across the street but you only get the info after they have taken their envelope and put it in their pocket and have you the rest back, as per the demo (0:36 to :040)

Do not expect a real time impression like a M**DB**STER pad [/quote]

This is super helpful and explains a lot (including the Scott Creasey comparison...). Does this require the gimmicks they send? You say these can be made up by yourself easily enough -- does that apply to all different sized envelopes? Is whatever they send more or less a "sample" gimmick? Or is it providing something necessary to make them yourself?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 23, 2019 01:46PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Martin Duffy wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Assuming itís electronics of sorts. [/quote]

Hardly...it's $30 [/quote]

Thicker than a whale omelette springs to mind.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Oct 23, 2019 01:47PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:

You should be able to buy what you need from a stationery store and make up the gimmick. there is nothing "fancy" required. [/quote]

I'm kind of curious, if this is the case, why this isn't just offered as a download?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 01:49PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, no2ss wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
That part is true...They can write the info across the street but you only get the info after they have taken their envelope and put it in their pocket and have you the rest back, as per the demo (0:36 to :040)

Do not expect a real time impression like a M**DB**STER pad [/quote]

This is super helpful and explains a lot (including the Scott Creasey comparison...). Does this require the gimmicks they send? You say these can be made up by yourself easily enough -- does that apply to all different sized envelopes? Is whatever they send more or less a "sample" gimmick? Or is it providing something necessary to make them yourself? [/quote]


From the video it looks like you get a sample made up to play with plus some extras to make your own . They actually make one up in the video so you can follow along. I suppose it could be adapted to envelopes a bit bigger but the business card size seems to be the best as its a close up tool.
There is nothing fancy required.

As for why it isn't just a download ?
The DIY will take about 10 minutes to do. Its not difficult but not as easy as cutting a window into an envelope. The sample would be handy to get the feel of it.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Oct 23, 2019 01:56PM)
Thanks, Mr. Dural. Very helpful.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 02:01PM)
Thx for the info Mr. Dural. Very helpful and much appreciated.

That trailer is useless.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 02:05PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
That part is true...They can write the info across the street but you only get the info after they have taken their envelope and put it in their pocket and have you the rest back, as per the demo (0:36 to :040)

Do not expect a real time impression like a M**DB**STER pad [/quote]

Thank you very much. Exactly as I suspected. I wish I had been there when they made up the ad.

Bro: "How can we sell this to more people than we really should?"
Other Bro: "Let's tell them this allows them to perform the best trick in magic and mentalism, they can get the info hands off AND from a mile away."
Bro: "Huh? Why would you make a spectator walk a mile, write something on the top quarter of a business card and then have them walk a mile back to you?"
Other Bro: "Eh... excercise is good."
Bro: "Ok."
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 23, 2019 02:23PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
Hi,

Quick info :

I don't know about " miracle of the highest magnitude" but its very good. It's reminds me of something Scott Creasy would do. I believe Docc Hilford had a similar idea with an envelope.
I would describe it as an hand-off Shaxton .



PROS :

ēYou can make the gimmick yourself cheaply (DIY Time : 10 minutes, regular stationery needed)
ē its hands off, the spectator is doing all the work (This is the attribute that sets it apart from predecessors)
ē It improves (in my opinion) the shaxton envelope mainly because of the hand-off-ness.


CONS
ē They cannot retrieve the card from the envelope after the trick (you can fix this after the performance)
ē They cant write more than on the top quarter of the card. (with some re-engineering this could be more)


USES :

ē Well just about any mentalism that requires someone writing a small piece of info on a card and sealing it. With some thinking it could be used for 4DT, a one-on-one Q&A, Phedon's Sybil (for the name part), pin code divination etc.
I would give it 8.5 /10 . I would keep this in my wallet for those times I don't have an impression device on me. [/quote]

Thanks so much, Mr Dural! Can you tell us more about that "They could fill out the card a mile away and you'd still have the information"? [/quote]

The envelope is placed on the top of a pile of envelopes, they place the card inside and take the envelope with them. You need to have the stack of envelopes in order to know their thought. They can fill it out a mile away, of course, but they need to get the stack of envelopes back to you, then they can return to their position a mile away. Not a super useful quality.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 23, 2019 02:24PM)
Thanks for the summary Mr. Dural, but now the bigger question...How do you actually READ the written information without having to turn your back on the audience or drop a pencil under a table? With 4DT and the use of the Shaxton envelope, the action is motivated within the framework of the routine. Could this be done similarly?
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 02:25PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Josh Burch wrote:
n the top of a pile of envelopes, they place the card inside and take the envelope with them. You need to have the stack of envelopes in order to know their thought. They can fill it out a mile away, of course, but they need to get the stack of envelopes back to you, then they can return to their position a mile away. Not a super useful quality. [/quote]

Yeah, I got that (see my earlier post). Thanks anyway, appreciate it!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 02:25PM)
The demo, like all demos is meant to get you curious. They do say " the spectator hand delivers you the info " before the "mile away" line. I doubt that a "mile away" was meant to be taken literally.
I can see how it can be misconstrued but if you watched the demo closely you would see that he gets the stack back first.


I will say this much, it is a very, very good tool. How many other envelopes do you know of where you don't have to touch it after the spectator has written information ?
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 02:29PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Jared wrote:
Thanks for the summary Mr. Dural, but now the bigger question...How do you actually READ the written information without having to turn your back on the audience or drop a pencil under a table? With 4DT and the use of the Shaxton envelope, the action is motivated within the framework of the routine. Could this be done similarly? [/quote]

You can get the information easier/faster than you would with a regular Shaxton. The peek can be so quick that it would be more like a sleight than overt action motivated within the construct of a routine.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 02:31PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
The demo, like all demos is meant to get you curious. They do say " the spectator hand delivers you the info " before the "mile away" line. I doubt that a "mile away" was meant to be taken literally.
I can see how it can be misconstrued but if you watched the demo closely you would see that he gets the stack back first.


I will say this much, it is a very, very good tool. How many other envelopes do you know of where you don't have to touch it after the spectator has written information ? [/quote]

It seems to be a nice tool indeed. But I'd say there's a big difference between getting people interested and flat out overpromising & underdelivering. Why not stick to the facts? If you want to create a sustainable relationship with your customers, that is ... .
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 02:38PM)
Thx to Mr Dural I may take the plunge.
But Iíve never ended up actually using anything from the Brothers historically.
I like them, but Iíve been underwhelmed in the past.
This has my attention though, so thanks yet again Mr Dural :)
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 02:41PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
Thx to Mr Dural I may take the plunge.
But Iíve never ended up actually using anything from the Brothers historically.
I like them, but Iíve been underwhelmed in the past.
This has my attention though, so thanks yet again Mr Dural :) [/quote]


I think you will like it. There is a lot of routines you own (yes, I am watching you) that you can easily adapt this for.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 23, 2019 02:53PM)
I'm more concerned that you can only write on one quarter of the card (if I read Mr. Dural's comment correctly that is)Ö

if its limited to that, then I'd stick with A.N. and get what I need as I put it in an envelope and give it to them to seal and keep...
Message: Posted by: itsmagic (Oct 23, 2019 02:55PM)
Crazy Cube anyone?
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 23, 2019 03:04PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Jared wrote:
Thanks for the summary Mr. Dural, but now the bigger question...How do you actually READ the written information without having to turn your back on the audience or drop a pencil under a table? With 4DT and the use of the Shaxton envelope, the action is motivated within the framework of the routine. Could this be done similarly? [/quote]

The peek Daryl uses doesn't have too much shade. He asks them to do something and then he peeks the info. It's not super clever but it works, and flies by in performance.
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 23, 2019 03:17PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, IAIN wrote:
I'm more concerned that you can only write on one quarter of the card (if I read Mr. Dural's comment correctly that is)Ö [/quote]

You only can peek a quarter of the card that's true. You may be able to see as much as a full half of the card. This is the case of cours with other methods such as the center tear, and Acidus Novus.

The thing that sets this apart is that the participant writes the information down, they place it in the envelope, they seal it, and they place it in their pocket (or I'd prefer to have them burn it). They give the envelopes and the pen back to you and you have access to their information. I think if you need to turn your back as they burn their thought, or as you go to put the pen and envelopes in your case it's covered well.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 23, 2019 03:22PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, IAIN wrote:
I'm more concerned that you can only write on one quarter of the card (if I read Mr. Dural's comment correctly that is)Ö

if its limited to that, then I'd stick with A.N. and get what I need as I put it in an envelope and give it to them to seal and keep... [/quote]

It may be more or less depending on construction but never the whole card. I think that for a name, pin number, phobia, star sign this would be good..but not for a drawing duplication.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 23, 2019 03:23PM)
Cheers fellas...I'll give this one a miss...
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 03:34PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
Thx to Mr Dural I may take the plunge.
But Iíve never ended up actually using anything from the Brothers historically.
I like them, but Iíve been underwhelmed in the past.
This has my attention though, so thanks yet again Mr Dural :) [/quote]


I think you will like it. There is a lot of routines you own (yes, I am watching you) that you can easily adapt this for. [/quote]


I knew my psychiatrist was wrong! I am being watched!

Side note; crack addicts end up with more disposable money then most of us probably..
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 03:40PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
I knew my psychiatrist was wrong! I am being watched! [/quote]

LOL
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Oct 23, 2019 03:43PM)
What's the reset like on this? Is this like a Shaxon where you have to basically make up a set for each use? Or could it be used repeatedly, say, strolling?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 23, 2019 03:54PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
I knew my psychiatrist was wrong! I am being watched! [/quote]

LOL [/quote]

I know what you mean. The other day I had a woodpecker call me a paranoid twat, in morse code.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 23, 2019 04:01PM)
😂😂😂
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 04:17PM)
At least being amongst other stable people here is helping my condition...
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 04:19PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
I knew my psychiatrist was wrong! I am being watched! [/quote]

LOL [/quote]

I know what you mean. The other day I had a woodpecker call me a paranoid twat, in morse code. [/quote]

Itís only crazy if it said it in sign language.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 04:23PM)
Ok, watching the download now.
Seems like the prep and reset is minimal.
Not sure yet about reusing the specs envelope.
Probably a solid reason to continue watching before I get on here making comments lol

First blush impression (!) is I like it.
Message: Posted by: 453rob (Oct 23, 2019 06:08PM)
For my money the peek that Phill Smith Teaches in HUMINT is so good that you don't need any gimmicks.
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9569
Alkazam ahs a neat performance by Phill on one of their vlogs. Humint is one of my favourite effects and slays.
https://www.alakazam.co.uk/product-Alakazam-Vlog-2nd-February-2018-Phill-Smith-Special.html
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 23, 2019 06:28PM)
Could be like Ghost by Paul Nardini or a Shaxon flap imo Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 06:37PM)
Unrelated side note..
I just went back to playing around with Underlooked by Arthur.
Gave it a casual test run only so far, and I can see it becoming a go to.
It also falls into an important category imo, itís fun.
Especially if youíve got the Scott Creasey double blank habit going.

Now back to your regularly scheduled shenanigans
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 23, 2019 06:46PM)
I use underlooked all the time now with a tyvek envelope I made myself . Also use it with double blanks , best envelope peek out there imo Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 06:53PM)
I had kinda discounted the envelope version.
Obviously thatís worth looking at again also huh.
Iíve become a severe minimalist over time.
A pile of double blanks is a concession I have no problem with though.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 06:59PM)
I think Richard Osterlind corrupted me.
He plunked down a small pad and a pen (before explaining his tear) and said something like, ďI could make a living with just thatĒ.
I always loved that mentality.
(Btw, this was in a video. We werenít hanging out having a beer..)
Message: Posted by: Lonnie_Lyerla (Oct 23, 2019 09:13PM)
Soooooooooo........If the magician peeks the information after the spectator has ď taken ď their envelope, and this isnít a peek impression system, then am I wrong to assume that there is also a switch involved at some point? I hope Iím wrong.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 09:27PM)
Iíll PM ya Lonnie.


Or maybe not....watching you sleuth stuff has become a favorite pastime of mine lol.

Ok, my thoughts so far. Subject to change, and this is first a blush impression.
I think itís fine, but probably not for me ultimately.
Iím glad I was exposed to it as an option, but canít see it replacing anything I already have in place.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 23, 2019 09:39PM)
I showed underlooked ( envelope version ) to some mates at the magic circle dealers day on Saturday just gone and it literally blew them away . They had no clue whatsoever , clean as a whistle Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: Lonnie_Lyerla (Oct 23, 2019 09:51PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, 252life wrote:
Iíll PM ya Lonnie.


Or maybe not....watching you sleuth stuff has become a favorite pastime of mine lol.

Ok, my thoughts so far. Subject to change, and this is first a blush impression.
I think itís fine, but probably not for me ultimately.
Iím glad I was exposed to it as an option, but canít see it replacing anything I already have in place. [/quote]



😂😂😂😂 Glad that Iím at least a little entertaining. I ultimately donít mind switching. Iím just seeing this trend for effects that arenít exactly what ďmyĒ mind is perceiving the contexts of the effects to be when advertised. Wording things specifically can be interpreted in many ways I guess.

PS
Iíll take a message or email from any time my friend. Great info plus a great convo.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 23, 2019 10:30PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I showed underlooked ( envelope version ) to some mates at the magic circle dealers day on Saturday just gone and it literally blew them away . They had no clue whatsoever , clean as a whistle Gaz 🙂 [/quote]


Iím going to give it a second look thx.
Underlooked has a nice and justified flow to it, itís fun to do.
Iím liking it more all the time.
Message: Posted by: Christian de Punto (Oct 24, 2019 04:39AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
Hi,

Quick info :

I don't know about " miracle of the highest magnitude" but its very good. It's reminds me of something Scott Creasy would do. I believe Docc Hilford had a similar idea with an envelope.
I would describe it as an hand-off Shaxton .



PROS :

ēYou can make the gimmick yourself cheaply (DIY Time : 10 minutes, regular stationery needed)
ē its hands off, the spectator is doing all the work (This is the attribute that sets it apart from predecessors)
ē It improves (in my opinion) the shaxton envelope mainly because of the hand-off-ness.


CONS
ē They cannot retrieve the card from the envelope after the trick (you can fix this after the performance)
ē They cant write more than on the top quarter of the card. (with some re-engineering this could be more)


USES :

ē Well just about any mentalism that requires someone writing a small piece of info on a card and sealing it. With some thinking it could be used for 4DT, a one-on-one Q&A, Phedon's Sybil (for the name part), pin code divination etc.
I would give it 8.5 /10 . I would keep this in my wallet for those times I don't have an impression device on me. [/quote]


so many unlogic things in taken....
first: why I give a bunch of envelopes to a spectator to put a note in one and give me back the rest? I could just give him one. and I have the risk, that he might want to use another one (if he has all in his hand).
second: writing down what I want to read mind later makes just sense, if I have a proof for the other spectators later... but seems the envelope cannot be opened later... so?????
to unlogic... sorry, I m out ;-)
Message: Posted by: Michael.Kegel (Oct 24, 2019 05:27AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, Christian de Punto wrote:

so many unlogic things in taken....
first: why I give a bunch of envelopes to a spectator to put a note in one and give me back the rest? I could just give him one. and I have the risk, that he might want to use another one (if he has all in his hand).
second: writing down what I want to read mind later makes just sense, if I have a proof for the other spectators later... but seems the envelope cannot be opened later... so?????
to unlogic... sorry, I m out ;-) [/quote]

It's even worse: what if the spectator puts down the stack of envelopes since he or she only needs one? I mean, if somebody handed me a stack of envelopes and asked me to write something on a piece of paper resting on top of the stack, I might put the envelopes I don't need on a table or perhaps return it to the person who gave it to me. What then? If the magician insisted on keeping the stack or even fishier under all circumstances keeping the stack under the piece of paper they're writing on, everything's clear in my opinion and the effect is gone for good.

I also don't get it how this is not an impression device though the complete handling cries impression device. If this isn't an impression device, why would we need the stack of envelopes beneath the one the spectator actually uses and why would the magician obtain the information the spectator had written down from the stack beneath the piece of paper the spectator used?

Any chance that the creators of magic items, effects and devices spare the magic community unspeakable and misleading promo clips like this one in the very near future? I just don't get it why we can't be open with each other instead of disgruntling fellow magicians with delusive advertising.

No offence to The Other Brothers as I really like their creative minds; I just don't get it.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2019 05:45AM)
I don't get the logic either...especially if you already use Jermay's version of a shaxon... in fact, this sounds a step back because it takes ten minutes to make this? and you get a full p**k with the Jermay set up....( I realise this won't be the first time that the Jermay one has been "re-invented" though)...
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Oct 24, 2019 09:23AM)
There are now multiple, very clean, quick and easy ways to get a full card p**k. From what's been written so far in this thread, Taken sounds like it does not really provide a better, cleaner or more useful way to get a p**k. Different, perhaps, but not does sound like an improvement over existing methods, to me anyway.

I continue to get more minimalist as I age. With just a stack of business cards, or double blank cards, there are many excellent ways to get a p**k. If you play around with existing methods long enough, you will figure out ways to have the spectator put their card in an ungimmicked envelope and keep it. End clean, nothing to find.

The Covert Peek uses a single, ungimmicked envelope. Either the mind reader or the spectator can put the folded card in the envelope, and the spectator can put the envelope in their pocket and keep it. I don't see how Taken is an improvement over that.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2019 09:28AM)
And if we are talking about clarity and a straight line for a presentation, then a single envelope and an imp pad will always win for me. Everything has a logic and simplicity. And everyone does what regular people do with those items.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 24, 2019 11:13AM)
Totally agree with both Iain and Stunningerís posts on this thread . Best wishes Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 24, 2019 12:09PM)
Although I would love to see a mentalist let a spectator walk a mile and back to write a name, I also have to agree.
Message: Posted by: Lonnie_Lyerla (Oct 24, 2019 03:32PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, IAIN wrote:
And if we are talking about clarity and a straight line for a presentation, then a single envelope and an imp pad will always win for me. Everything has a logic and simplicity. And everyone does what regular people do with those items. [/quote]



Itís thinking like this that makes me feel good about doing mentalism for as long as I have. A single envelope is exactly what I would use if I were using envelopes. I understand that having more envelopes will hide the thought of only needing one. However.....Simplicity is a magicians best friend. And carrying around something that is a little bulky imo to get the results Iím looking for just isnít for me.
Iím aware of how ď taken ď is done, and I canít for the life of me think of anything I currently use to gain information, being replaced by ď taken ď. But.... if you like to just enjoy collecting magic, then this may be for those that do.
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Oct 24, 2019 03:53PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
The demo, like all demos is meant to get you curious. They do say " the spectator hand delivers you the info " before the "mile away" line. I doubt that a "mile away" was meant to be taken literally.
I can see how it can be misconstrued but if you watched the demo closely you would see that he gets the stack back first.


I will say this much, it is a very, very good tool. How many other envelopes do you know of where you don't have to touch it after the spectator has written information ? [/quote]

The Mati Envelope can do that !
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 24, 2019 04:12PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, Christian de Punto wrote:
so many unlogic things in taken....
first: why I give a bunch of envelopes to a spectator to put a note in one and give me back the rest? I could just give him one. and I have the risk, that he might want to use another one (if he has all in his hand).
second: writing down what I want to read mind later makes just sense, if I have a proof for the other spectators later... but seems the envelope cannot be opened later... so?????
to unlogic... sorry, I m out ;-) [/quote]
I agree, not being able to open the envelope as proof and revelation is quite a let down. And why give them a whole stack of envelopes in hand? A stack that is awkwardly held together by a tight rubber band?
It's really a pity but I have to confess that I was pretty disappointed by the brothers' new realease this time (loved most of their other stuff, though).
Message: Posted by: MDantes (Oct 25, 2019 09:23AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, IAIN wrote:
especially if you already use Jermay's version of a shaxon...[/quote]

Donít tell eírbody IAIN!

🤫
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 25, 2019 10:47AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, ArtIn wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
The demo, like all demos is meant to get you curious. They do say " the spectator hand delivers you the info " before the "mile away" line. I doubt that a "mile away" was meant to be taken literally.
I can see how it can be misconstrued but if you watched the demo closely you would see that he gets the stack back first.


I will say this much, it is a very, very good tool. How many other envelopes do you know of where you don't have to touch it after the spectator has written information ? [/quote]

The Mati Envelope can do that ! [/quote]
Thanks for the plug!
Yes, you're right about the properties of the "Mati Envelope" in which the spectator opens the envelope herself at the end, taking out her card. Also, performer never touches the paper and the spectator himself seals the envelope shut.

But let's keep this thread about [i]Taken[/i] please.
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Oct 27, 2019 05:31PM)
Taken wants to mime mentalism and offer a way to mindreading but honestly lags credibility.
Itís not just about a stack of tied up envelopes and illogical handlings but also about some strange hints that are given:
Leaving the dirty envelope with your spectator should be no option.
Its also not recommended to follow a (strong) mindreading sequence with a card reveal. Why would you do that?
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 27, 2019 06:25PM)
They should have named it You Got Taken
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Oct 27, 2019 07:24PM)
[quote]On Oct 27, 2019, 252life wrote:
They should have named it You Got Taken [/quote]
Anyone who is still buying their products, well, itís their own fault.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 27, 2019 08:29PM)
[quote]On Oct 27, 2019, Tom Cutts wrote:
[quote]On Oct 27, 2019, 252life wrote:
They should have named it You Got Taken [/quote]
Anyone who is still buying their products, well, itís their own fault.

Guilty as charged. Hopefully this time I learned my lesson.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 27, 2019 09:03PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, IAIN wrote:
I don't get the logic either...especially if you already use Jermay's version of a shaxon... in fact, this sounds a step back because it takes ten minutes to make this? and you get a full p**k with the Jermay set up....( I realise this won't be the first time that the Jermay one has been "re-invented" though)... [/quote]

What is the name of Jermay's.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 28, 2019 04:55AM)
Can't remember, it's been a while...
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 28, 2019 10:10AM)
When this can be done without the card, envelope, having to write anything down, or having to hand something back to the performer, let me know.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 28, 2019 11:14AM)
When that day comes people will just think you are using a stooge anyway , you canít win Gaz 😂😂
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 28, 2019 11:16AM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
When this can be done without the card, envelope, having to write anything down, or having to hand something back to the performer, let me know. [/quote]

You mean getting info by waterboarding?
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 28, 2019 12:35PM)
Set fire to about $35, when they go to put it out, you get the p**k
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 29, 2019 11:54PM)
LOL
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 30, 2019 12:29AM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
[quote]On Oct 28, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
When this can be done without the card, envelope, having to write anything down, or having to hand something back to the performer, let me know. [/quote]

You mean getting info by waterboarding? [/quote]


ďGood evening ladies and gentlemen,
for my first demonstration I will need a magician from the audience to assist me...Ē
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 30, 2019 12:37AM)
ď... ah, thank you for joining me on stage, Sir. I believe you are known at the Magic Cafť as ďMind ProĒ? Well, after youíve written down the names of the famous artists nobody believes you helped, I would like you to lie down under that tap and answer some questions from Robb...Ē
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 30, 2019 12:50AM)
Ugh! I knew I forgot something at the supermarket today!

Popcorn :)
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 30, 2019 01:14AM)
I got some! We can share! Or wait... am I expected to enter the Octagon with Robb and Mindpro now? :lol:
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 30, 2019 03:32AM)
Hmm,

I don't know if a lot of this criticism is just jumping on the bandwagon (something unheard of in the Cafť). The Shaxton envelope (and luke Jermay's version) also use a stack of envelopes. They also leave the participant with a dirty envelope that the spectator cannot open and retrieve the info. In both those versions the magician has to hold the stack himself.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 30, 2019 03:38AM)
Mr dural, that was kinda my point. What does this release do differently and better than the jermay shaxonless set up?

So it's not that it's rubbish, I'm concerned about originality, differences and improvements etc
Message: Posted by: dyoung (Oct 30, 2019 03:48AM)
I think the idea of them doing the work for you is interesting. However, having a stack with a card sticking out ever so slightly for them to write something down, is a bit weird.

Also in Luke's routine they are not left with that envelope, his routine is brilliantly structured.


All the best,
Dan
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 30, 2019 03:49AM)
Thatís why underlooked is so great imo Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 30, 2019 05:21AM)
I agree. Underlooked is a gem.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Oct 30, 2019 05:42AM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
Hmm,

I don't know if a lot of this criticism is just jumping on the bandwagon (something unheard of in the Cafť). The Shaxton envelope (and luke Jermay's version) also use a stack of envelopes. They also leave the participant with a dirty envelope that the spectator cannot open and retrieve the info. In both those versions the magician has to hold the stack himself. [/quote]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the Couvert Peek, which uses a single ungimmicked envelope and card, and either the mind reader or spectator can put the card in the envelope, which the spectator can hold and keep, ending completely clean. I don't see how Taken offers any benefit over that. Rather, it seems like a step back in several ways.

Also mentioned there are several business card peeks that are excellent and do not require an envelope at all, but did not name them. They are: Underhanded, Underlooked, Godspeed and the peek taught in Humint.

I'm always interested in hearing about new approaches. You never know when something new will come along that offers a better way than existing methods. From what I've read about Taken, it does not offer a better way, in my opinion anyway.
Message: Posted by: Bambu (Oct 30, 2019 02:22PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2019, Stunninger wrote:
[quote]On Oct 30, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
Hmm,

I don't know if a lot of this criticism is just jumping on the bandwagon (something unheard of in the Cafť). The Shaxton envelope (and luke Jermay's version) also use a stack of envelopes. They also leave the participant with a dirty envelope that the spectator cannot open and retrieve the info. In both those versions the magician has to hold the stack himself. [/quote]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the Couvert Peek, which uses a single ungimmicked envelope and card, and either the mind reader or spectator can put the card in the envelope, which the spectator can hold and keep, ending completely clean. I don't see how Taken offers any benefit over that. Rather, it seems like a step back in several ways.

Also mentioned there are several business card peeks that are excellent and do not require an envelope at all, but did not name them. They are: Underhanded, Underlooked, Godspeed and the peek taught in Humint.

I'm always interested in hearing about new approaches. You never know when something new will come along that offers a better way than existing methods. From what I've read about Taken, it does not offer a better way, in my opinion anyway. [/quote]

Check Banache's Picture Duplication and Number Duplication peeks.
Full peek with plain business cards, one step, not folding and not envelops.
Message: Posted by: RonCalhoun (Oct 30, 2019 06:07PM)
I'm waiting for someone to review it on Penguin. Till the reviews come in I'll set out.
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 30, 2019 06:56PM)
Wow, that was a tangent guys. Honestly Taken isn't my thing but after discussing it in depth with a bunch of great magicians I believe that much of this discussion is confusing.

What is the logic?

Well, in a 4DT presentation the logic is that you need a bunch of people to fill things out and place them in envelopes.

In a roulette routine, you could place a bill in the top envelope and have a bunch of dummy envelopes (from the stack) mixed in with it.

Which is more natural? Walking up to someone with a single envelope or a stack of envelopes? If you want to do it casually for friends (which is how most of us will do this anyway) it looks MUCH more casual to walk into your office and pull out a stack of envelopes than it does to pull one out. That could easily be how you keep your envelopes!

This might not be for you but it's not trash guys.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 30, 2019 07:30PM)
Pulling out one envelope is 100 times more natural than pulling out a bunch of envelopes imo in any situation for a one spectator routine Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 30, 2019 10:00PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2019, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Pulling out one envelope is 100 times more natural than pulling out a bunch of envelopes imo in any situation for a one spectator routine Gaz 🙂 [/quote]

I don't think a stack of envelopes are at all out of place in almost any situation you would use an envelope in. In a casual environment like at home, it doesn't seem out of place at all to reach into a junk drawer and pull out a stack of envelopes. Lots of people keep envelopes stowed away in a drawer, and to have a stack wrapped in a rubber band seems completely natural.

In my eyes, pulling out a single envelope is like pulling out a single crayon from the junk drawer. You could have just grabbed the whole box right? Who keeps just one envelope in their drawer? Most people have a few envelopes at home and they keep them with the other envelopes.

One envelope seems more suspect to me as well. Let's imagine you have a gaffed quarter. Is it more suspect to pull out the quarter and perform magic with it by itself? Or is it more suspect to pull out the gimmicked coin among a handful of normal coins? I think most would agree that the second scenario seems more fair. I think the same logic could be applied to envelopes, cards or other objects.

I'm suprised that there is an issue at all with a stack of envelopes. This is a common tool in mentalism. There is a lot in the literature that covers stacks of envelopes. Marc Paul, Bob Cassidy, Luke Jermay and many many others have lots of work with stacks of envelopes. It seems like a wierd thing to be hung up on in my eyes.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Oct 31, 2019 04:24AM)
Ok so I have a prediction in my top breast pocket of a thought of card . Bringing out a full deck and saying itís in here is better than producing the one single matched card ? I think not .You maybe correct if you are performing in your office in your day to day job and pulling envelopes from a drawer but at a magic gig itís far stronger to have one envelope laid on the line with one prediction in it as it because impossible to a layman imho Gaz 🙂
Message: Posted by: dyoung (Oct 31, 2019 04:30AM)
I don't even think the stack is the weird part. It's handing them that stack with a business card sticking out of it ever so slightly, so that they can write something on it that's weird.

all the best,
Dan
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Oct 31, 2019 06:54AM)
I agree handing one person a stack of envelopes feels unnatural. If you had a stack of envelopes, wouldn't you remove one and hand it to them? That's what I would do, anyway.

I guess you might hand someone several envelopes and ask them to pick one - if that were part of the routine, and the one they choose was important, like a bank night or something. But that's not the case here. You might hand someone a box of crayons if you wanted them to choose among the different colors. But if you had a bunch of pens that were all the same, you would only hand the person one pen.

This said, there are all kinds of illogical and unnatural steps that occur in some routines, and if the performer is congruent it may go unnoticed.
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 31, 2019 07:08PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
I got some! We can share! Or wait... am I expected to enter the Octagon with Robb and Mindpro now? :lol: [/quote]

Well, gotta admit I was hoping lol.
Itís Halloween, pass the candy popcorn instead:)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2019 07:15PM)
This can be done a mile away. Havenít you remembered this very impressive point?
Message: Posted by: 252life (Oct 31, 2019 08:10PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, pegasus wrote:
This can be done a mile away. Havenít you remembered this very impressive point? [/quote]


Can be done over the phone even!
Message: Posted by: Josh Burch (Oct 31, 2019 08:27PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
Ok so I have a prediction in my top breast pocket of a thought of card. Bringing out a full deck and saying itís in here is better than producing the one single matched card ? I think not. [/quote]

This is not a prediction effect, but if I humor your example a full deck of the same card is likley much stronger than a single card prediction. If you name the two of spades and I open the deck and all I have is the two of spades that is very powerful.

[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
You maybe correct if you are performing in your office in your day to day job and pulling envelopes from a drawer but at a magic gig itís far stronger to have one envelope laid on the line with one prediction in it as it because impossible to a layman imho Gaz 🙂 [/quote]

Perhaps you and I might use this in a gig, but the vast majority of magic purchasers are amateurs. That is almost certainly the case for this product. Even for professionals, we still have a long precedent of the best professionals in the business using stacks of envelopes all the tims.

[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, dyoung wrote:
I don't even think the stack is the weird part. It's handing them that stack with a business card sticking out of it ever so slightly, so that they can write something on it that's weird.

all the best,
Dan [/quote]

You have a point, this is a little strange. It could easily be covered in performance though. Or the magician could draw a line on the card for them to write on and then place it in the envelope themselves.

[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, Stunninger wrote:
This said, there are all kinds of illogical and unnatural steps that occur in some routines, and if the performer is congruent it may go unnoticed. [/quote]

This is what gets me, it's not significantly more unnatural than anything else on the market. Personally I like Luke Jermay's handling of the flapless envelope but Taken gives the spectator more apparent control of their thought.

It feels like some of the comments here carry a slight implication that this is somehow unusable, and I really don't think it is. The ad copy is technically correct, just not all that advisable.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Nov 1, 2019 02:45AM)
[quote]On Nov 1, 2019, Josh Burch wrote:
The ad copy is technically correct, just not all that advisable. [/quote]

I honestly think we should stop giving creators a pass for this. It's not some sort of miscommunication or misunderstanding. They very deliberately make up these phrases. They know they imply more than is possible. They know people will be disappointed. It's just wrong.
Message: Posted by: dyoung (Nov 1, 2019 04:24AM)
John Burch: You have to have the card sticking out like that, because of the method. Not just for limiting where they draw.

//Dan
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Nov 1, 2019 04:28AM)
I'm sure it works...

But it's all about the pay off and compromise.

Any advantage this has is blown out the water because they can only write on a quarter. Before anyone mentions A.N. that has some very simple motivation to make that seem straightforward. In fact there's presentational angles you can use that exploits that feature.

So, what does this do that is better than the jermay method or using AN and a single envelope?

Is it more logical? Is it method wise a step forward? What makes it worth the $30?
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 1, 2019 07:14AM)
If you are using envelopes in this scenario, the only truly logical justification is that you are introducing a test conditions element to proceedings -the envelope being an extra layer of protection for the written information. If the participant is not allowed to write cleanly on the billet at the start the test conditions element is completely negated.

As a coherent, logical sequence of events this routine -based on the description and the reviews- makes very little sense.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Nov 1, 2019 07:58AM)
[quote]On Nov 1, 2019, IAIN wrote:
I'm sure it works...

But it's all about the pay off and compromise.

Any advantage this has is blown out the water because they can only write on a quarter. Before anyone mentions A.N. that has some very simple motivation to make that seem straightforward. In fact there's presentational angles you can use that exploits that feature.

So, what does this do that is better than the jermay method or using AN and a single envelope?

Is it more logical? Is it method wise a step forward? What makes it worth the $30? [/quote]

Well said.
Message: Posted by: Nick-V. (Nov 2, 2019 07:33PM)
I picked it up... it is quite clever! This thing would totally rock If only one envelope was introduced vs. a stack. If you can justify the stack then this would most likely suit your style. They do include some useful tips on presentation. Although the video does show how to make the gimmick, they do include a ready made one in the package along with matching envelopes and number 19 rubber bands so you are ready to go and perform this immediately after learning the effect. For 30 bucks it can go a long way in the right hands. Thanks guys. Keep up the creativity!
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Nov 7, 2019 12:00AM)
I don't think I want to use a stack of envelopes & rubberbands to perform a mind reading demonstration "makes No Sense" Use a peek wallet or a center tear just my opinion here.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Nov 21, 2019 03:07PM)
Nice method but other easier ways to achieve .