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Topic: Forgotten Princess by Alexander Marsh
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Oct 24, 2019 12:26PM)
I guess this is like Royal Redo by Bill Wisch?


https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/12440

Ad copy:

"This is a great update on a classic, that is going straight in my close up mentalism repertoire. The extra-hypnotic touch from Alex, makes of this effect a new experience that the the audience will never forget" - Luca Volpe

"Just when you think you have seen it all, Alex comes along and breaths new life into a classic effect that blows all other presentations out of the water!" - Michael Murray

"Forgotten Princess has become one of my favourite packet tricks - it now lives in my wallet at all times allowing me to create a unique and impactful hypnotic effect without relying on real inductions or suggestibility!" - Dee Christopher

"Forgotten Princess takes this classic of magic from being an internet puzzle and transforms it into a real psychological mystery!" - Cody S. Fisher

Using the unique custom gaffs provided (printed by our friends at the USPCC), you will have a mind-melting mentalism trick ready to perform any time, anywhere.

It only uses FIVE cards, so it will fit in your wallet, purse or even in those little pockets they sew onto t-shirts which are completely useless otherwise.

Here's what happens:

1. Deal 5 cards to the table, and ask your spectator to remember ONE.

2. You set one card aside, and "pluck" the memory of that card from their head. You then prove you've done this by showing their card isn't one of the 4 remaining cards.

3. They don't believe you, because they assume you just set aside the card they thought of from the hand.

4. But you reveal that that card isn't the one they thought of either. This is the moment they start to get weirded out!

5. With a tap, you put the missing thought back into their head, as they name the card which is CLEARLY still in the packet.

...And all this is done with no moves, no switches and no extra cards.

This is one KILLER effect that all of us in Penguin HQ have as our new favourite every day carry - The best part is that this effect can even be done over Skype, Facetime or Facebook Live!

The packet of gaffs that you will receive is different to the original princess card trick to cater for this brilliant new update, and Alexander will teach you all the ins and outs of his version to ensure that you're ready to go out and blow the minds of your audiences right away!

Pick up Forgotten Princess now and get ready to have the power of memory erasure, without the need for a neuralyzer!
Message: Posted by: egoli (Oct 24, 2019 02:13PM)
I've always enjoyed the Princess Card Trick and this looks like a nice version and I will probably pick it up. Good value for the price. Just two minor points. The ad copy says "no moves" - this is not correct. There is a move that needs to be done several times - not a sleight - but a move never the less. Very easy but a beginner needs to practice to get it natural looking. Also, the cards will not be examinable. I might just have an ungimmicked set of cards in my pocket to switch out and hand out if necessary.

Ed
Message: Posted by: SimonTheSorcerer (Oct 24, 2019 02:36PM)
I guess a mind power deck can cover that routine or in case you own TOCA just use those cards. One of those would be a better investment I think.
Message: Posted by: Nick-V. (Oct 24, 2019 03:16PM)
I love the approach!!! Great idea!!!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 24, 2019 04:04PM)
Great idea and very good value.
Message: Posted by: Maxyedid (Oct 24, 2019 09:22PM)
ďBecause the card isnít missing from here, itís missing from your mindĒ
Message: Posted by: Sophocles (Oct 24, 2019 11:41PM)
ď The packet of gaffs that you will receive is different to the original princess card trick to cater for this brilliant new update,Ē

How are these different? That makes no sense as this looks the same as the classic version.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Oct 25, 2019 12:52AM)
I too am confused isn't this just princess card trick with a different patter ... you put the thought of card back in the packet . The original princess card trick you remove the thought of card & you don't put it back into the packet . hmmm... not sure
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Oct 25, 2019 04:45AM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, tophatter wrote:
I too am confused isn't this just princess card trick with a different patter ... you put the thought of card back in the packet . The original princess card trick you remove the thought of card & you don't put it back into the packet . hmmm... not sure [/quote]

Yep!!! But the trailer does have funky music and some great cut-aways....
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 25, 2019 05:39AM)
LOL
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Oct 25, 2019 06:04AM)
From the ad:

[i]"This is one KILLER effect that all of us in Penguin HQ have as our new favourite every day carry"[/i]

Funny to imagine the Penguin staff showing the trick to each other over and over, always freaking out.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 25, 2019 07:02AM)
I can't say I'm following the logic of this one.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 25, 2019 09:20AM)
Me neither, to be honest. The final reveal to me does not feel like a real finale. It feels like it should be followed by smth else.
Message: Posted by: aheller5 (Oct 25, 2019 09:51AM)
To confusing!!!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 25, 2019 12:23PM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, aheller5 wrote:
To confusing!!! [/quote]

I assume you mean too confusing.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Oct 25, 2019 12:25PM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, aheller5 wrote:
To confusing!!! [/quote]

I assume you mean too confusing. [/quote]


I think he meant it as a destination...where this thread will go.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 25, 2019 12:32PM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, aheller5 wrote:
To confusing!!! [/quote]

I assume you mean too confusing. [/quote]


I think he meant it as a destination...where this thread will go. [/quote]

Haha. I like this updated version personally. Only problem being is that this trick has been exposed to death on social media unfortunately.
Message: Posted by: Sophocles (Oct 25, 2019 12:43PM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, aheller5 wrote:
To confusing!!! [/quote]

I assume you mean too confusing. [/quote]


I think he meant it as a destination...where this thread will go. [/quote]

Haha. I like this updated version personally. Only problem being is that this trick has been exposed to death on social media unfortunately. [/quote]

I think how cards are introduced could overcome social media.
If we pull out 5 cards from our pocket and do it versus put on top of the deck, false shuffle and then do it then people may not recall what they saw on youtube a while ago. So I think this still can be used.
Message: Posted by: mattH (Oct 25, 2019 02:13PM)
Where is this available in the UK?
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 25, 2019 03:26PM)
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, Sophocles wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, Mr. Dural wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Oct 25, 2019, aheller5 wrote:
To confusing!!! [/quote]

I assume you mean too confusing. [/quote]


I think he meant it as a destination...where this thread will go. [/quote]

Haha. I like this updated version personally. Only problem being is that this trick has been exposed to death on social media unfortunately. [/quote]

I think how cards are introduced could overcome social media.
If we pull out 5 cards from our pocket and do it versus put on top of the deck, false shuffle and then do it then people may not recall what they saw on youtube a while ago. So I think this still can be used. [/quote]

I hear yer. And additional cards too. Perhaps 10.
Message: Posted by: Sophocles (Oct 25, 2019 03:49PM)
Considering that someone could buy a different effect with a gaff deck that includes cards one could also use to do this... Iíd say itís priced too high.
Message: Posted by: ted french (Oct 25, 2019 11:00PM)
I've always loved the princess card trick but like many of you I feel like it has been exposed too much online and it's not very deceptive. Forgotten Princes uses similar gimmicks as the original princess card trick but the improvements make this an effect worthy of performing.

I carry the gimmick with me in my wallet and I think its a really strong effect considering there is absolutely no sleight of hand. Also I love the fact that these gimmicks are now available in bicycle backs. Improving a classic effect is difficult but Alex has definitely done it with Forgotten Princess.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 26, 2019 01:01AM)
I have to agree ted, and those complaining that itís too expensive is quite simply hilarious. Am hoping this ends up across the big pond.
Message: Posted by: Vraagaard (Oct 26, 2019 02:01AM)
I still donít see why I couldnít perform this with my original Princess Cards or the Royal Redo version? The patter is new, but I need to understand why it requires new gaffs.

Having said that, I would prefer the cards to be a mix of picture and number cards, and not just picture cards as in Royal Redo. But then again, I already have those types of cards in other gaffed packages.

Iím intrigued, but need somebody to explain me what the ďnewĒ is. If I chose to use it, I will support Alexander Marsch and make a purchase. We need to keep the inventors going, and the twist of the patter is ďnewĒ enough for me.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 26, 2019 03:42AM)
I'm still a bit confused by this presentation. I'm sure it's just me being thick. Can someone who has this try and concisely summarize this effect?

Invisible Deck would be something like: A participant imagines reversing a card in an imaginary deck. The same card is revealed to be the only card reversed in a real deck.

What would be the equivalent for 'Forgotten Princess'.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 26, 2019 03:48AM)
I like the fact that the card removed MUST be their thought of card as itís now missing from the spread.

When THEIR supposed chosen card is returned to the spread it ISN'T their card at all. (WTF moment)

Then, suddenly, without any funny moves, THEIR card has returned to the spread.
Message: Posted by: Vraagaard (Oct 26, 2019 08:59AM)
And you can chose to play it like a mild hypnosis/suggestion effect if you are in to that sort of thing.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 26, 2019 02:30PM)
[quote]On Oct 26, 2019, Vraagaard wrote:
And you can chose to play it like a mild hypnosis/suggestion effect if you are in to that sort of thing. [/quote]

Indeed. Forgot to mention that fact.
Message: Posted by: celebrity (Oct 27, 2019 06:23AM)
I have never been a fan of the Princess effect until I saw this presentation. Although I gave Alex a quote for the effect the biggest compliment I could give is that I purchased a copy for myself at full price (which admittedly I thought was fantastic value for both the cards and the routine).

Although Pegasus has summarised this already I would say the following -

After remembering a single card from a five card poker hand the mentalist removes one card from the group, displaying the other four to the participant showing it becomes apparent that thought of card is no longer in the group. Just when the participant begins to suspect that the card removed must be their thought of card the fifth card is returned back to the group and they are STILL unable to see their card. The mentalist claims that this is because the card was never removed from the group, but instead was removed from their mind. To prove this the mentalist then taps the participants forehead which instantly returns the thought allowing the participant to see/identify their card within the group.

Best Wishes Michael
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 27, 2019 12:34PM)
Thanks Micheal. Really looking forward to getting this.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Oct 27, 2019 01:05PM)
This trick has always worried me so Iíve never been inclined to do it. The reason being is that with any card trick I often have specs who have trouble remembering their chosen card, either the suit or value or both. In this trick, with a jumble of court cards which all look so similar, and the quickness in which they are required to mentally select a card, I fear there will be a significant percentage that wonít be sure if their card was a spade or club etc., so the impact is greatly diminished.

I also wonder if perhaps not using all court cards might help.

Because Iíve always been worried about this Iíve always shied away from this trick. For people that have performed this regularly for years, have you found this to be a valid concern?
Message: Posted by: mich77 (Oct 28, 2019 10:21AM)
[quote]On Oct 27, 2019, celebrity wrote:
I have never been a fan of the Princess effect until I saw this presentation. Although I gave Alex a quote for the effect the biggest compliment I could give is that I purchased a copy for myself at full price (which admittedly I thought was fantastic value for both the cards and the routine).

Although Pegasus has summarised this already I would say the following -

After remembering a single card from a five card poker hand the mentalist removes one card from the group, displaying the other four to the participant showing it becomes apparent that thought of card is no longer in the group. Just when the participant begins to suspect that the card removed must be their thought of card the fifth card is returned back to the group and they are STILL unable to see their card. The mentalist claims that this is because the card was never removed from the group, but instead was removed from their mind. To prove this the mentalist then taps the participants forehead which instantly returns the thought allowing the participant to see/identify their card within the group.

Best Wishes Michael [/quote]


I like this presentation and thanks to that I started to like the Princess trick too.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 28, 2019 11:17AM)
Not sure why the Princess card trick historically has always used court cards. Iím assuming any suitably gimmicked card could be used? Ie. 6 clubs / 6 spades etc
Message: Posted by: videoman (Oct 28, 2019 11:54AM)
With court cards you can ostensibly show the entire card, only needing to cover one corner with your finger.
That's crucial when showing 4 cards without a cover card.
Message: Posted by: JamieD (Oct 28, 2019 06:34PM)
I really, really like this version of the PCT! I have never performed this up close because it hasn't really been my style but Alexanders version is absolutely my style! I love the idea of messing with peoples reality and this presentation does it wonderfully! Whilst many might think they know what is going on here, and they're obviously very close, there are a few very clever changes in the gaff set up and the handling which make this gold! I don't think it is priced too high at all! I cannot wait to begin performing this!

Jamie Daws
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 28, 2019 11:25PM)
I think the card reappearing back in the spread may weaken the effect.

Perhaps better that the card was never there in the first place. Not sure.

No sign of it arriving in the UK yet.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 31, 2019 04:36AM)
Andy the Jerx has some really interesting comments about this. He actually hired five lay people to write down their reactions. They coincide with what both Martin and I were alluding to: the plot does not seem clear. None of them could describe it afterwards. Check it out, very insightful stuff.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2019 06:14AM)
Well Andy should post them here.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 31, 2019 06:16AM)
Steve and Andy donít get along. And that is probably the understatement of the year.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2019 06:34AM)
Steve who?
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 31, 2019 06:41AM)
Steve B. The man who runs this town.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2019 06:44AM)
The Sheriff. Understood.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2019 06:50AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
Andy the Jerx has some really interesting comments about this. He actually hired five lay people to write down their reactions. They coincide with what both Martin and I were alluding to: the plot does not seem clear. None of them could describe it afterwards. Check it out, very insightful stuff. [/quote]

I'm glad to see I'm not alone. I still don't understand what is supposed to be happening in this presentation.

To take Michael's synopsis:

"After remembering a single card from a five card poker hand the mentalist removes one card from the group, displaying the other four to the participant showing it becomes apparent that thought of card is no longer in the group."

So far, so conventional.

"Just when the participant begins to suspect that the card removed must be their thought of card the fifth card is returned back to the group and they are STILL unable to see their card."

What do they see? A different card? A blank card?

"The mentalist claims that this is because the card was never removed from the group, but instead was removed from their mind."
When was it removed from their mind? They haven't forgotten it at any point?

"To prove this the mentalist then taps the participants forehead which instantly returns the thought"
The thought never went anywhere? How is it being returned?

"allowing the participant to see/identify their card within the group."
What is the participant supposed to think has happened in this moment? The card has magically changed? They were momentarily hypnotized to see a different card?

What has any of this got to do with a thought being plucked from someone's mind? They think of one of five cards; they never stop thinking of that card; and they are still thinking of it at the end. Where does the 'forgotten' bit in the title come in?

I'm confused!
Message: Posted by: JamieD (Oct 31, 2019 07:14AM)
I think the easiest way to look at the effect is actually with a bit of duel reality. What the spectator is seeing is different to what the audience at large THINK the spectator is seeing. So the spectator thinks you have taken their card out somehow, then out it back in but it has changed. Then it reappears. However, the audience watching think, because of Alex's scripting, the spectator has someone forgotten their card and when he taps her forehead, he puts the thought back into her head. The realities of what is happening are different I think! This is how I view the effect anyway!

Jamie Daws
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2019 07:25AM)
Think of one of these five cards but only think of it mentally and don't say it outlaid
I'm going to read your mind and take that card out and put it to one side
is your card in the remaining four
no
of course it isn't, because what really happened was the card you thought you saw was implanted in your mind by me
see? look at the five cards again
the card you thought was never really there in the first place

that's how I interpreted it...
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2019 07:36AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, IAIN wrote:
Think of one of these five cards but only think of it mentally and don't say it outlaid
I'm going to read your mind and take that card out and put it to one side
is your card in the remaining four
no
of course it isn't, because what really happened was the card you thought you saw was implanted in your mind by me
see? look at the five cards again
the card you thought was never really there in the first place

that's how I interpreted it... [/quote]

Wouldn't that be called 'Implanted Princess'?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2019 07:42AM)
Its like the old esp thing with OTL, call it what you want...though implanted princess suggests something else to me...
Message: Posted by: Alexander Marsh (Oct 31, 2019 08:07AM)
Hello there.

Alexander Marsh here.

Maybe this video filmed a couple of years ago may shed some light on what this effect is and isnít.

https://youtu.be/piUOLoCUbBw

This clip is taken from a larger routine using cards, in fact the full routine will be in my Penguin Live Act coming out next month (**CLANG**)

This does indeed use the same principle as the gimmicked version of the classic Princess Card Trick (the original and many other variations did not use gimmicked cards), but with a small change to the original set up and a completely different presentation. The cards Penguin produce for my effect are bicycle stock too, which is something of a rarity for this gimmick.

This is a different effect to the Princess Card trick but using the same principles - in the same way you can use a Swami to predict a number or read someoneís mind of a thought of number.

The Princess Card Trick (using gimmicked cards) although a classic is a flawed effect (hence why itís often relegated to just being a quick YouTube or website trick). You ask someone to think of one of 5 cards and prove you read their mind not by telling them the card but by showing the absence of it in the fan.

Forgotten Princess is an amnesia effect in vein of Jermayís RGM or the one using OTL as Iain mentioned. A spectator is asked to think of one card in a poker hand. You then use your hypnotic influence to seemingly remove or interrupt the memory of that card. The real convincer comes when you seem to put that memory back in their head, something not possible with the aforementioned methods. To me this is what makes the effect more convincing.
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Oct 31, 2019 09:09AM)
As much as I understand each and everyone trying to explain the plot, the simple fact remains these lay people Andy hired didnít get it. And I think the fact that they couldnít explain it Is more interesting than the fact you guys can. (And before you start about how that depends on your presentation, read the article first!)
Message: Posted by: halestorm (Nov 6, 2019 06:32PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2019, The Unmasked Magician wrote:
... the simple fact remains these lay people Andy hired didn't get it. And I think the fact that they couldn't explain it Is more interesting than the fact you guys can. (And before you start about how that depends on your presentation, read the article first!) [/quote]

What article is that; can you post a reference?
Message: Posted by: The Unmasked Magician (Nov 7, 2019 12:05AM)
Halestorm, as mentioned above thatís not an option.
Message: Posted by: Sophocles (Nov 7, 2019 12:23AM)
I think people looking at this should also remember the New Limited Edition which is also an improvement with a New edition. The video doesnít show the torn card. Read the effect below in the link for details.

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/389
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Nov 8, 2019 11:25AM)
Definitely forgotten. Not available anywhere apart from Penguin it seems.
Message: Posted by: Sophocles (Nov 9, 2019 02:38PM)
[quote]On Nov 8, 2019, pegasus wrote:
Definitely forgotten. Not available anywhere apart from Penguin it seems. [/quote]
Yeah I picked it up from Penguin some time ago.

For people who like old methods with a new presentation should also check out Connected by Vinny Sagoo.
Very cool idea with an old method.
Message: Posted by: PatrickGregoire (Nov 9, 2019 09:39PM)
The plot can be clarified by a simple presentational tweak:

Show 5 cards, have them remember one.

Tell them you will remove their thought of card from the packet. You set one card aside and show them the remaining 4, they confirm that you removed the card they were merely thinking of!

Then you tell them you'll take it a step further; you'll remove their thought of card from their memory. You tell them that if you put their card back in with the other cards, they should be able to spot their card, but that they won't be able to. You put the card back in with the others, you ask them not to say the name of their card, but just to point to it. You show them the cards and they're confused because they don't recognize any of the cards as theirs.

You then snap them out of it, ask them to name their card and point to it, getting them to confirm that their card has been there all along.

So the effect is that you remove a thought of card from a packet of cards. Then, you remove the thought of card from their memory.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Nov 11, 2019 08:07PM)
I think it's sorta clever, to take an old idea and think of it another way in presenting it...It sorta makes it kinda new again. :)
Message: Posted by: mpilkey (Nov 19, 2019 01:39PM)
Iím curious as to how the cards are different than the ones from the traditional princess card trick???
Message: Posted by: equivoque (Apr 11, 2020 12:55PM)
[quote]On Nov 19, 2019, mpilkey wrote:
Iím curious as to how the cards are different than the ones from the traditional princess card trick??? [/quote]

I am wondering the same thing. Can someone on me?
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Feb 24, 2021 11:11AM)
I had an idea and sent it to Alexander. He said it was okay to put it here:

[b]I just got it. I like the presentation and the added idea of making them forget then bringing back the memory. I would not do this as a stand alone packet effect. I would have the gimmicked cards in the deck itself... plus at the bottom of the pack and reversed would be the five normal cards they think they are seeing at the end plus maybe two more regular cards... all of those are face up on the bottom.

Spread through the cards towards yourself. Talk about hypnosis and even say that sometimes confusing patterns are used to bring people into trances like the hypno wheel. You pull out five cards and say you will take out 5 court cards because they all have a busy pattern on them.

Do the routine here where you pluck their memory out then show them they still can't remember then finally bring their memory back. Drop those five cards on the deck. Talk about hypnosis a bit as you casually pick up the deck, and reverse it. Deal the next five cards out... which will be the real court cards they thought they looked at a second ago. Turn them around and now you can do some psycho-babble as to why the patterns put them into a trance. And now they can see all the cards as regular.[/b]
Message: Posted by: RNK (Feb 24, 2021 11:23AM)
Very nice Greg! Thanks for sharing!!