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Topic: Expanded Shell Face Doming
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 22, 2020 10:34AM)
Ive read lots of posts dealing with Shells and I am not finding anything about my issue:

I have a Barber Half Expanded Shell and insert coins. The face of the Shell is slightly *domed*.
When a coin and shell are nested and press them together the Domed Shell face *oil cans* making a clicking noise (older guys will get that term)

I have tried nesting an already-tight coin and a silk. When they are nested the dome flattens. However, remove them and it returns.
Anyone experiencing that and have found a fix?

Thank You!
Message: Posted by: st3v13 (Jan 22, 2020 07:41PM)
I have the same issue.
Would be curious if anyone has any solutions. Specifically, it's from an OXF set by Schoolcraft.
Message: Posted by: The Gold Coin (Jan 23, 2020 12:10AM)
So the dome is toward the inside of the shell? In other words, inserting a coin shell causes the dome to flatten outward (toward the face of the shell)?

It sounds like the shell is very thin, and somehow was bent inward at some point in its life. I'd suggest running this by Jamie / whoever manufactured the shell.
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 23, 2020 08:02AM)
The Gold Coin: it is opposite the condition you mentioned.
Rather when coin and shell nests fully, there is still air space between at the center.

Right now, I have a double layer of silk and a coin inserted into shell and just leaving it for several days.

Will see how that looks then.
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 23, 2020 05:28PM)
I do not know who the maker of the Shell, but I suspect it is Schoolcraft.
I messaged Roy Kueppers to see what can be done for a shell like this. Here is his reply:

"Hi Steph, unfortunately that shell was made that way. Lack of experience is the culprit. There is no way to fix it. I could make you a new shell to fit your coins if you send me the set. Aside from the annoying clicking sound, the appearance is also not appealing is it?"

So, I guess that's that!
I am stubborn so I will try to expand the outer rim of the shell by adding another layer of Silk and wedge a coin inside. Today, I also used an Clothing Iron to "heat" the insert Coin to expand the metal while nested with the coin and silk. I held it until the Shell felt hot and allowed them naturally cool. With finger-crossed, maybe expand the outer Rim "ring" enough to make the face "taught", reducing or eliminating the Dome.

I'll let ya know if I am successful!

Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jan 24, 2020 09:56PM)
My friend, Stephon, I am a metal worker. You would have to somehow add something to strengthen the walls of the shell and put it in a press and slowly apply pressure to the center of the coin. YOu would have to have something like urethane to absorb and spread the force of the press. But this is extremely difficult and there are no guarantees.

What I would do , as a jeweler, is to make a coin with a slight concave dip in its face. You would have to cut this out with a carbide tool. Put the shell over the coin, use urethane or hard rubber to dampen the force of the circular press. Again, results are not guaranteed but if someone did this right, it would work. I make boons out of circular metal and make them into the exact concave I want.
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 24, 2020 10:38PM)
THANK YOU for you expertise!
The Shell came shimmed. I think the shim was added to stabilize the center of the face.
I had removed the shim to stretch the shell because 1 Coin was too tight. It was only after removing the shim that I discovered the doming.
It has gotten slighter after stretching with 3 layers of silk and coin.

I am planning to re-shim the Shell and carry on!

Thanks everyone!
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 28, 2020 12:50PM)
I happy to announce that my shell is flat on the face! I will explain the steps that I did to fix mine, but I cannot guarantee that it will work for every situation. So use your own discretion and at your risk!

My shell domed and would return even if I gently pressed down.
I removed the shim glued inside
Cleaned and gently sanded the glue residue from shell and shim
(I used a Dime size disc cut from a Nail buffer sticks that have foam core)
I sanded with running water to wet sand and wash away debris.
Using a disposable Silk hanky and a coin I inserted 1-layer silk + coin 24 hrs
Repeated with 2-layers and then 3-layers.
The doming gets flatter and ends up the Shell preferring to concave into the Shell but will pop either way.
I slightly curled the shim so that when I glue it in the tension of the curled shim will place pressure into the center of the shell.
Since the curvature of the shim is opposite the Shell. The glued assembly will cancel the tension to maintain flatness.
I applied DAP Rapid Fuse super glue thinly to the entire inner face of the Shell.
I placed the shim carefully and inserted an insert coin and held pressure consistently for 30 seconds.
VOILA! My shell has a flat face and NO oil can action!!!!
If you want finish pics PM me and I can email pictures, or any clarification messages.
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Jan 28, 2020 12:59PM)
How did you ensure you didn't super glue the coin into the shell (seepage from under the shim)?
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 28, 2020 01:15PM)
Good Question!...
I applied the glue with the tip flat to the shell inside and basically only allowed enough glue to ďsmearĒ it around in little circular movements. Leaving the entire area ďglazedĒ with the glue. Plus the Rapid Fuse cement is so FAST. The label says 10 seconds to fuse and it isnít kidding! Donít drop the shim into the place and hope to reposition it because you wonít have the chance.
So I suggest use tweezers to get it right on the mark before set it. Then drop the coin onto the shim and give good finger/thumb pressure for 10-30 seconds. Mine had no sticking with the coin with that method.
BUT...If you arenít sure holds 2Ē square of wax paper under the coin before inserting coin and press. The wax paper will prevent any seeping to glue the coin accidentally.

Message: Posted by: videoman (Jan 28, 2020 01:35PM)
Hi Stephon,
Thanks for posting your experiences and I'm glad you achieved success in the end. Itsounds like it was quite an ordeal.
I find it interesting that Roy Kueppers had stated that there is no way to fix it. He wouldn't know because he would just make a new shell but of course not many of us have that option so we need to get creative. But I must admit that I'm surprised you went to all the trouble as I know you are a "dollar coin man". :)
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 28, 2020 01:58PM)
Videoman: You are right! LOL. BTW I got a set of the Kranzo Morgan replicas for grins and really like them! My next DIY is using Silver plating solution to plate replicas and then use liver of sulfur to patina them. Fun stuff!

Personally I had never owned a Barber Shell set, but I have always to try one.
Price was good (even with the shell issue)
I like to have Half dollar sets in case I know Iím going to have an audience with smaller hands (kids) and I like Barbers much more than Walking Liberties aesthetically. Just not easier to get gaffs for Barbers.

Anyway, Iím a sucker for DIY challenge to fix the unfixable!
Message: Posted by: Jxb1989 (Jan 28, 2020 07:28PM)
With the super glue question at hand, I have learned to use only the ďbrushĒ tip style . It allows for a very thin coat. Also, thank you for your experience!
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 28, 2020 08:44PM)
Jxb1989, Thanks!
I also considered the Gorilla "Brush & Nozzle". This glue, although convenient, is takes a full cure of 24 hours. Both initial applications of glue require pressure 10-30 seconds; but The DAP Rapid Fuse has a 30 MINUTE full cure! Since the curved shim needed to stay put after I glue it quickly, I opted that glue. It doesn't have a "pointy" tip like lots of precise gluing; rather this one is blunt and if you put the tip right on the surface perpendicular you can be very controlled as to how much to allow out of the nozzle. I only allowed it to "smear" on the surface.

Message: Posted by: Jxb1989 (Jan 29, 2020 05:56PM)
Krazy glue is the brush style that is my go to. My hands arenít steady enough for the blunt tips ha. Iíd end up with a mess (after 3 hours with a flipper coin / crazy glue and nail polish remover one time, it was an expensive lesson learned ha). Has the doming still stayed fixed? Also, by expanding it more, did you lose noticeable coverage on the sides?
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Jan 29, 2020 06:31PM)
To Answer you questions:
* Using Brush is totally good! I almost used it too. LOL
* The Fixed Shell is still fixed. Iíve been carrying it daily and running through my Coins Across and working seamlessly!
* Coverage is unchanged.
* When I bought the Shell set, the coins were various dates. I shopped for matching 1912 Barbers to match the Shell. All of those fit nicely!
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jan 30, 2020 01:30AM)
Awesome fix. Brilliant. You should be the go to gimmick repair man. but I doubt you want to go through this again! hehe.
Message: Posted by: Mark Tams (Jan 30, 2020 05:54AM)
Roy Kueppers has an awesome vid posted on Kozmo's site on how to fix this. It involves using a bang ring, placing the coin in it and then slowly pressing the middle in the opposite direction to take the dome out. Check it out at Reel Magic.
Message: Posted by: elainevblaine (Jan 30, 2020 12:23PM)
You don't need a bang ring, since the shell is already sitting on it's edge, the edge is the bang ring. You wouldn't want to push further than the surface it's sitting on. All a bang ring would do is increase that distance. You are welcome. Buy a good shell and you won't have that problem in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Feb 1, 2020 11:54PM)
Well, if you find you have a shell that Clicks like an Old TV remote, then it is Convex, Concave, Convex...In, Out, In...then pushing on one side or the other, it isnít gonna fix anything. The BEST you can do is STOP the shell going Concave. Because if the shell pops into the shell the coin isnít going to seat into the Shell well. So if you ONLY have one choice of the two, you will want the Concave (doming) so that at least the coin will seat fully.
YES, Buy a great shell that doesnít have issues...BUT, if you find yourself in an unfortunate situation, you can either find a way to make lemonade of lemons...or Suck And PUCKER!

I prefer to make the best of the situation!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 8, 2020 10:48PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2020, Stephon Johnson wrote:
To Answer you questions:
* Using Brush is totally good! I almost used it too. LOL
* The Fixed Shell is still fixed. Iíve been carrying it daily and running through my Coins Across and working seamlessly!
* Coverage is unchanged.
* When I bought the Shell set, the coins were various dates. I shopped for matching 1912 Barbers to match the Shell. All of those fit nicely!
STEPH [/quote]

Hi Steph, I want to ask about "Matching Dates". Why is this important? You know I do some coin work, but I could just never understand the matching
date trend. I work most with soft Morgans all with different dates and never had a question from a spectator about the dates on the the coins.
This is a genuine question :)

Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Feb 8, 2020 11:58PM)
My Morgan Shell Set is my worker set and do NOT have matching dates, JUST matching patina.
The Barber Shell set that I bought inserts donít match Patina very good. So if I was buying new insert coins I decided that Iíll make the date AND patina match my shell. So I looked for both, and did.
So, appearance and patina is king. Matching date is just a bonus.

Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (Feb 25, 2020 07:22PM)
I had the same issue with an oxf that I bought from Schoolcraft about 7 or so years ago. I got the gaff in the mail and the shell was domed. I called Schoolcraft and he said he did that on purpose for more coverage. I didn't like it. He was nice and let me send it back for a full refund. However, I have only bought Lassen since that day.
Message: Posted by: st3v13 (Feb 27, 2020 08:19PM)
I actually ended up liking it.
It helps make the shell even quieter.
It aesthetically drives me nuts though.