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Topic: Legend Cups and Balls?
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Jan 28, 2020 01:58PM)
I've been contemplating getting a set of polished copper Cups and Balls by Legend. Anyone have them? Would like your thoughts on quality, weight, etc. So hard trying to figure it out looking at a picture. https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/13020

Cheers!
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Jan 28, 2020 05:27PM)
They appear to be a version of the pdx or pfd? cups that penguin was offering. With that in mind, they are made in China and, in my opinion, the quality was ok for a beginner but definitely not for the professional. The mouth opening was 2.75". As far as whether you should spend money on them, that all depends on your needs for the cups and what type of performer that you are.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Jan 29, 2020 12:36AM)
Is it just me, or are these the copper versions of the TCC Artistic Cups (Brass)?
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Jan 29, 2020 05:58AM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2020, yin_howe wrote:
Is it just me, or are these the copper versions of the TCC Artistic Cups (Brass)? [/quote]


Yes. Upon further review of the cups and watching the actual trailer, I would say that you are correct. Vanishing Inc. also puts out a set very similar to these. It says that they weigh about a half a pound each. I would definitely beware of the lemon final load. It will hold a lemon but not a large lemon.
Message: Posted by: Kingry (Jan 29, 2020 07:00AM)
Look like TCC in copper. If so they will hold a wilson tennis ball. Waiting on confirmation. Definitely not the PFD's. Which, I used for years as my workers. Not taking a pricey set on the streets.
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Jan 29, 2020 01:38PM)
Just finished a chat session with the folks at Penguin Magic. They said the cups are 3” tall and 3” wide. Hmmmm. Would not confirm if these are TCC wannabe’s or not. I noticed Vanishing Magic sells the same Legend set. That price is hard to resist for a knock around set. I was originally waiting for the PFD cups to come back in stock but no one seems to able to get them. Drats!
Message: Posted by: juggler357 (Jan 30, 2020 05:30AM)
You can pick up some PFD's at
https://www.propdog.co.uk/pfd-cups-balls, they have them in stock.
Message: Posted by: magic.99 (Jan 30, 2020 08:21PM)
Wondering if one of the Legend cups is a ‘combo’ cup?
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Jan 31, 2020 01:15PM)
The more I look and study these the more I’m convinced they are a replica of TCC Artistic cups in copper as mentioned earlier. They don’t appear on the TCC webpage.
Message: Posted by: BobMc (Jan 31, 2020 05:10PM)
From what I have heard, creating copper CNC cups are a pain which is why you don’t see them often. Obviously it isn’t impossible. Johnson created a limited amount in copper.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 1, 2020 08:10AM)
TCC has released Artistic Cups & Balls ver 2 in Nov last year.

It is currently only available in China.

I got a set and it is gorgeous.

https://alexhuimagic.wixsite.com/magic?pgid=jzikd6sk-7ea11f64-e469-4896-aa4a-2166a57c9e4f

I am thinking to get Legend Cups too cos the color is different. I think they are the same as TCC's.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Feb 1, 2020 09:29AM)
[quote]On Feb 1, 2020, alexhui wrote:
.........

I am thinking to get Legend Cups too cos the color is different. I think they are the same as TCC's.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

Thanks Alex. I saw the Artistic version 2 cups on the TCC website as well. They do look nice. If you get a set of the Legend cups I hope you let us know what you think of the quality, feel, and weight.
Message: Posted by: Kingry (Feb 3, 2020 06:24PM)
The ring confuses me. Copper does not ring.
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Feb 3, 2020 07:50PM)
Actually sound travels through copper at is 4,600 meters per second. The fastest is aluminum at 6,320 meters per second. Copper alloys of brass and bronze are preferred metals in musical instruments. According to Wikipedia, “Bell metal is a hard alloy used for making bells and related instruments, such as cymbals. It is a form of bronze with a higher tin content, usually in approximately a 4:1 ratio of copper to tin (typically, 78% copper, 22% tin by mass)”.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 4, 2020 06:56AM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2020, Kingry wrote:
The ring confuses me. Copper does not ring. [/quote]

Copper will ring, but as Icantsleep pointed out the alloys play a big part. In cups, the if the mouth bead is open from the side of the cup it will allow
the copper to ring, nothing like brass or bronze or even stainless for that matter, but it will ring. Another factor is the annealing of the metal that
depends on whether is will ring or not.

I ordered a set of Legend cups from Hocus-Pocus, just out of curiosity. I hope to get them this week and will share about their properties and quality.

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Feb 4, 2020 01:14PM)
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts Mad Jake!
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 5, 2020 05:43AM)
I have ordered a set. I will do a in-depth review next week.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: BobMc (Feb 5, 2020 08:47AM)
I picked up a set of the polished copper and here are some initial observations. They are just about 9 ounces each and they stack very well. They sort of take a brand new regulation Penn tennis ball, but it is a little tight and I have to wiggle the cup a bit to release it. Maybe Wilson balls are a tiny bit smaller, and maybe a used ball would work. That is how close it is. I have a bunch of Chinese tennis balls that are closer to 2.5" and they fit easily. The only criticism is that the insides are not polished. They aren't as bad as the Penguin cups but they aren't pretty either. Mine have some mild burn looking marks on the inside. I actually don't care too much about that, but if you do, you can get something like Wright's copper cream or Penny-Brite and scrub the inside of each cup for a couple of minutes. It still won't make them perfect but it will improve it. The outside of the cups look perfect. I don't have any ACAB cups but I have the TCC ACAB 2.0 cups from Michael Ammar and they are a little different.
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Feb 5, 2020 02:59PM)
Thanks for the information BobMc. Very helpful. I followed the “Instant Patina” method by Bruce Smith on a set of polished copper cups I had and was pleased with the results. It took out some minor imperfections in the finish. Literally took about an hour of work time and the results were amazing inside and out. They ended up looking like the patina on Gazzo’s cups. Not everyone likes that look but for street work I think it lends to the effect.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 5, 2020 09:38PM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2020, BobMc wrote:
...but I have the TCC ACAB 2.0 cups from Michael Ammar and they are a little different. [/quote]

besides the different metal and finish?
Message: Posted by: BobMc (Feb 6, 2020 04:43AM)
[quote]On Feb 5, 2020, yin_howe wrote:
[quote]On Feb 5, 2020, BobMc wrote:
...but I have the TCC ACAB 2.0 cups from Michael Ammar and they are a little different. [/quote]

besides the different metal and finish? [/quote]

Yes, the shape as well. The Legend Cups and the TCC ACAB 2.0 cups look very similar, but they don't stack interchangeably.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 7, 2020 12:02PM)
I should be getting a set today to check them out.
Will post back some brief thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 7, 2020 03:18PM)
Well after the post office misdirecting our mail, the Legend Cups have arrived. I was first impressed on how much the delivery box weighed.

I ordered my set from Hocus-Pocus over the past weekend, 150.00 with free 2 day Priority Mail. Thanks to the gang at HP.

Upon opening the box, everything was very securely packed. The box containing the cups s a work of art in itself. Upon opening the box I
was greeted by a beautiful piece of printed parchment. I lifted the parchment to reveal the beautiful shiny copper cups, or so I thought. I'll get
back to what I mean by that further into the review.

I was a little dismayed by the fact that there was nothing between each cup ie. Tissue Paper. But to my relief there was no marks on any of the
cups, again so I thought. The silk interior of the box is just Classy. It includes (4) 1 1/8" crocheted balls in wool, I'm not a fan of wool yarn, but
the balls are nice.

Each cup weight is different, 8.7, 8.6 and 8.9, total stacked weight 1 lb 11oz. You can do a 3 ball stack with them and each cup took a Penn
regulation tennis ball with no sticking. Moves like cup through cup works great without effort. The stacking is solid, very little if any rock at all.
The rings like bells when mouth up and tapped. Again more on this later, as I know I made a post earlier stating copper will ring depending on
alloys involved.

I'll let others review the handling and performance of the cups. Ok, onto the "So I thought" notations.

The cups are not spun, they are definitely CNC cups, which is not a bad thing. This adds to their weight and consistency. The difference in weight
between cup was minor and also common in CNC mass produced metals.

I purposely did a scratch test and a density test on one of the cups. Why? Because you are NOT getting Copper cups, you are getting Copper Plated
cups, the base material is brass after doing an chemical test on the scratch test I made. This is why they ring like Bells. No copper I have ever machined
on a manual lathe or our CNC here ever resulted in the type of ring you get with these cups. To advertise these cup as Copper is just not right. With a retal
of 150.00 there is no way machinable Copper, usually C110 which is the cheapest of Copper right now. There was a reason Johnson could get 350.00 for
their limited Copper cups, they are real copper.

After using a chemical test on the scratch test I did, it turned Black which indicted Bronze or Brass.

The "So I Thought" on the statement of No Marks on the cups, I was wrong once I looked inside the cups. The are 4 dots in the cups, each identical in each
cup. These are what I refer to as "Racking Scars" they are left behind from the rack when electroplating. Based on the Racking Scars and the depth of the
scratch test the plating is not that heavy on these.

Another tell tale sign of plating is what we call "Hot Spots". On the exterior of the cup I felt little pricks, this happens when the density of parts vary on
an item being plated and more of the plating is drawn to one spot. All 3 of my cups have a bunch of Hot Spots. This does take away from the finish as
it is uncomfortable performing with cups that have so many spots.

All in all, for 150.00 you really can't beat these cups, but how soon they will wear the plating off is going to be determined on how much you use them. They
look nice out and in the box, but durability of the plating is my concern. Mine will never wear off simply because I won't use them, I use Paul Fox and Gazzo cups
exclusively.

Out of 5 Stars I rate the following:

Purchase 5
Price 5
Honesty from Murphys 0
Packaging 5
Finish 3
Durability of Copper Plating 2
Recommendation to Collectors only 5
Recommendation to Heavy Use Performers 0

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: BCS (Feb 7, 2020 10:03PM)
Jake Jr... I hope you and the family are doing well.

That was one of the best Cup reviews I have read in a long while...Good job.

Take care,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 7, 2020 11:51PM)
Thanks Jake!
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Feb 8, 2020 09:02AM)
Thanks Jake!! You will not have that problem with the 1000-G cups! They are exactly as described. No B.S. Just straight forward honesty. That is the best approach!
If you have to mislead customers to sell a product, why sell it? If you are a worker, why buy a product that is not going to last a lifetime?
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 8, 2020 09:22AM)
Holy smokes Jake! Can you please review EVERY new magic prop out there? What a thorough, honest, educated, and unbiased commentary. We can only hope you do more prop reviews in the future...we'll all benefit! Thank you sir.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 8, 2020 12:43PM)
[quote]On Feb 8, 2020, Wizard of Oz wrote:
Holy smokes Jake! Can you please review EVERY new magic prop out there? What a thorough, honest, educated, and unbiased commentary. We can only hope you do more prop reviews in the future...we'll all benefit! Thank you sir. [/quote]

Hi Wiz, how have you been? I don't like leaving a review like this.

Thank you to those who appreciated the review.

One thing I did leave out is the Seat or Saddle of the cup. For the style of the cup they seem too small to me. But then I put the Penn Tennis ball onto the Seat of the cup and I was Wowed by it. It really helps the illusion of the
final load being too large to fit the cup. This is a plus to me.

Kindest Regards,
-MJJ
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 8, 2020 12:49PM)
[quote]On Feb 8, 2020, kcmagic1 wrote:
Thanks Jake!! You will not have that problem with the 1000-G cups! They are exactly as described. No B.S. Just straight forward honesty. That is the best approach!
If you have to mislead customers to sell a product, why sell it? If you are a worker, why buy a product that is not going to last a lifetime? [/quote]

KC, I have no doubt about the G1000 cups. As soon as I square up with you, they will be replacing my Gazzo for fair performances & events here locally. I'm not a street
performer but I love performing for locals at our special town events. I can't wait to get my hands on them.

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 8, 2020 05:22PM)
I need to make a correction. The balls supplied are Cotton Crochet thread, not wool. I apologize for my error.

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 8, 2020 05:27PM)
I got my set yesterday. Great packaging but I could really care less about that especially given conservation issues.
I think the entire world needs to simplify and start getting used to less waste. Nonetheless very nice if you’re into that.

The cups are heavy. Perhaps too heavy.
They feel like heavier, bigger Johnson cups.

They can’t compare to Sherwood cups.

Personally I I’ll take a spun set any day.
They have more personality and feel more “alive” in my hands.
It’s hard to describe but perhaps some will know what I mean.

Balls are nice.
They look nice.
Shape is good. Saddle is just right. Much like the Johnson saddle.

I could see myself using them with no complaints.

As long as you know what you’re getting you shouldn’t be disappointed.


Jake
Thanks for going the extra mile with the scratch test.
They do feel “brass-ish” for sure. Not surprised.

Frank
Message: Posted by: unclesamayen (Feb 9, 2020 11:02AM)
Jake, thank you for the wonderful review ! Learned a lot from the post!
Message: Posted by: icantsleep (Feb 10, 2020 04:38PM)
Wow. Could not have asked for a better product overview. Thanks for the time you put into this detailed review Jake. Cheers my friend!
Message: Posted by: shomemagic (Feb 11, 2020 08:44AM)
I may have missed it but is a set of balls included? If so what size and color and by chance will one cup be chopped?
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Feb 11, 2020 05:21PM)
[quote]On Feb 9, 2020, unclesamayen wrote:
Jake, thank you for the wonderful review ! Learned a lot from the post! [/quote]

Ditto! Great, informative review, Jake. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: BCS (Feb 11, 2020 05:49PM)
Mike... Jake Jr review says 1/18 in another review I read the balls are blue.

Take care,
Bruce
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 11, 2020 07:01PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2020, BCS wrote:
Mike... Jake Jr review says 1/18 in another review I read the balls are blue.

Take care,
Bruce [/quote]

Hi Bruce, hope you are doing well yourself. We're all fine here, or at least as well as to be expected :)

The balls that came with my set were Red, they might vary in colors.

Kindest Regards,
Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 11, 2020 10:25PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2020, shomemagic wrote:
I may have missed it but is a set of balls included? If so what size and color and by chance will one cup be chopped? [/quote]

BLUE balls were included with the Artistic Cups and Balls 2.0 (Micheal Ammar).
No Chop.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 12, 2020 01:56AM)
I got red balls as well and they are quite nice, IMO.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 12, 2020 01:59AM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2020, TheAmbitiousCard wrote:
I got red balls as well and they are quite nice, IMO. [/quote]

Frank, with you on that, they are very nice. The reason I first thought they were wool, was because a thicker thread
is used, which is advantage with some moves.
Message: Posted by: unclesamayen (Feb 12, 2020 04:52AM)
Just curious, what the difference between the different material ?
Copper, Brass, aluminum ?
Just the weight ? The sound ? Or any other feature ?

Does the material matters when performing ?
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Feb 12, 2020 08:11AM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2020, unclesamayen wrote:
Just curious, what the difference between the different material ?
Copper, Brass, aluminum ?
Just the weight ? The sound ? Or any other feature ?

Does the material matters when performing ? [/quote]

Well, in my opinion, the material matters. Aluminum cups will not hold up depending on your routine. Thin copper does not hold up. Thick copper doesn't hold up. When I say that it doesn't hold up, I am solely talking about in my routine and the fact that, until recently, I would have to buy a new set of cups every year because of damage to the cups. Some cups would only last me a weekend. I have not used brass, however, I am not a big fan of the look of brass. The sound is another big difference. I am a big sound person and I like it when the audience can hear the sound as well.

To answer your second question, to me, the material matters primarily because of the sound and durability. I put my cups through the ringer and aluminum will not withstand that. With my routine, aluminum would not last a day. Copper lasts me longer but I still have to replace my cups after a year. Last year, I had to buy 3 sets of cups, copper. My cups must have had a rough year last year. To me, as a working professional, and not a collector, I want to purchase a product that is going to last me for a long time, if not a lifetime.
Message: Posted by: BobMc (Feb 12, 2020 09:33AM)
[quote] Does the material matters when performing ? [/quote]

I see kcmagic1 already responded but I will give my thoughts as well. His large street cups are great and definitely built to be durable. I hope he continues to make cups.

For most people who are not slamming their cups to make noise to attract a crowd in a busking situation, copper cups will hold up great. Brass cups don't look as good as they age in my opinion unless you keep them shiny or if they have some sort of finish on them. Aluminum is definitely lighter. The one cup I do like in Aluminum is the Don Alan Mini chop cup. It is very light and easy to keep in my front jeans pocket without noticing it throughout the day. That aluminum cup is only 1 ounce and the copper cup is 3.5 ounces.

The other thing to consider is a CNC cup versus a spun cup. CNC cups are often thicker, heavier, and more durable. When I first heard someone on this forum say "spun cups have soul" I laughed, but now I know exactly what they were talking about. It sounds silly to say, but a spun RNT2 cup or Sherwood cup definitely has a different feel than a CNC cup. I don't know how to describe it but I enjoy practicing with them more for some reason. That said, people like Jake Jr. and kcmagic1 sell very durable CNC cups that would be okay if dropped on a hard surface. That is definitely a consideration too. All just my opinion at this moment of course.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 12, 2020 09:48PM)
Personal preference mostly.
Some like shiny Stainless steel, Silver or Gold.
I like the look of copper, but brass is more durable(?). This set seems like the best of both the copper/brass worlds.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 14, 2020 03:48AM)
I've uploaded my in-depth review of the Legend Cups & Balls here.
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=708808&forum=109

Hope it help.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Feb 14, 2020 09:05AM)
Anyone had their cups develop patina uyet?
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 14, 2020 07:11PM)
Wonderful review Alex. Thank you for putting in the time and sharing your opinions with us.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 14, 2020 09:16PM)
No patina yet on mine Yin. They're in a display case.

Alex, excellent video review, but a few a few questions as you have Satin Antique finish and I have the Mirror finish. The first thing,
you say Murphy's says they are copper, not copper plated. But in another breath you say Murphy's is a good company. Thanks sorta
of an Oxymoron. Just saying.

The satin cups are plated, then are dipped into an Ammonia or Oxidizing batch. Afterwards, they are rinsed they are satin finished.
What I'm leading up to is burn marks on the outside. There is no anodes on the outside, or did you mean "Hot Spots?" that are sharp
on the outside?

The sound test for the cups were stifled copper clanks against each other. All cups will make that sound. The true sound test is setting
them mouth up and tapping them lightly on the body or mouth bead of the cup to get the true sound of the cup.

I don't mean to sound critical because your review was awesome, just trying to understand the differences between the polished and
the satin that you have.

Kindest Regards,
Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 15, 2020 04:17AM)
[quote]On Feb 15, 2020, Mad Jake wrote:
No patina yet on mine Yin. They're in a display case.

Alex, excellent video review, but a few a few questions as you have Satin Antique finish and I have the Mirror finish. The first thing,
you say Murphy's says they are copper, not copper plated. But in another breath you say Murphy's is a good company. Thanks sorta
of an Oxymoron. Just saying.

The satin cups are plated, then are dipped into an Ammonia or Oxidizing batch. Afterwards, they are rinsed they are satin finished.
What I'm leading up to is burn marks on the outside. There is no anodes on the outside, or did you mean "Hot Spots?" that are sharp
on the outside?

The sound test for the cups were stifled copper clanks against each other. All cups will make that sound. The true sound test is setting
them mouth up and tapping them lightly on the body or mouth bead of the cup to get the true sound of the cup.

I don't mean to sound critical because your review was awesome, just trying to understand the differences between the polished and
the satin that you have.

Kindest Regards,
Jake Jr. [/quote]

Thanks Jake for the honest opinion and comment on my review. I always value frank exchange of opinion. Really appreciative.

I always try to assume people good intent. As the surface of the cups are obviously Copper, I would kind of forgive Murphy states that it is a set of Copper Cups. And whether the cups are made of copper or brass seems only matter to hardcore cups fan or perfectionist only, but not ordinary performers.

When I talked about 'Murphy's is a good company', I mean if the cups are defected, I think they will replace it for another set. In fact, they promised to replace my set after the review. Please forgive me if that comment of mine sound like a promotion for them. I have no affiliation with them at all.

As the the mark on my cups, it is something black and like a liquid dip. They are obvious.

For the sound test, I totally agree with you. I made that wrong. I will improve it in future.

Again, Jake thanks for comment. I did learn a lot from you.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 15, 2020 09:48AM)
Alex,
your video review was excellent. Thank you for taking the time to present the review in that form.

My consensus of the advertising by Murphy's Magic is they purposely mis-represented the cups. Wether the customer
is a collector or performer, the cups were represented as Copper when in fact they are copper plated brass.

I very much liked the "Rolling" test you did. Something I have never considered with any set of cups I've used or collected.
That test alone shows the mouth beads are uniform from cup to cup. After seeing that I gathered some cups of mine and was
rolling them. Very interesting results.

As to durability, the cups are solid workers. But then there is the durability of the plating. That is my concern for people
that will be working with them. Which they are definitely worthy of. But how long with the thin plating hold up? Time will tell.

I look forward to seeing more reviews of magic on your Chanel, I of course subscribed to it.

Kindest Regards,
Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 15, 2020 12:47PM)
Hi Jake,

Thanks again for your kind words.

I totally agree with you that Murphy should make a better statement on the product instead of making a misinterpretation.

I am not sure abt the plated copper durability either. But since I will use the cups, I will write my findings here if there is any.

I am really happy that you have subscribed to my channel. Will surely post more reviews in future.

Alex Hui
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 22, 2020 05:22PM)
[quote]On Jan 31, 2020, BobMc wrote:
From what I have heard, creating copper CNC cups are a pain which is why you don’t see them often. Obviously it isn’t impossible. Johnson created a limited amount in copper. [/quote]

If you use C110 copper you end up with Taffy shavings. Buryliam Copper machines 90 percent better on a CNC, but is more than double the price of C110 copper.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 23, 2020 02:43AM)
[quote]On Jan 30, 2020, juggler357 wrote:
You can pick up some PFD's at
https://www.propdog.co.uk/pfd-cups-balls, they have them in stock. [/quote]

Yes, you could if they were In Stock <LOL>. Those PFD cups are inferior to the Legends cups 2/3rd lighter than the Legends, poor shoulder beads, if that is wha
you would want to call them. In most cases if you take a copper cup from China and do a cross cut, then do a lead test on them, you'll want to put gloves on to
toss them away. -MJJ
Message: Posted by: MagicVin (Feb 23, 2020 07:35AM)
Mad Jake,
I liked your input on the legend cups and balls, did you get your hands on a set of the tic artistic cups and balls? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on them.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 23, 2020 12:53PM)
[quote]On Feb 23, 2020, MagicVin wrote:
Mad Jake,
I liked your input on the legend cups and balls, did you get your hands on a set of the tic artistic cups and balls? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on them. [/quote]

I don't have a set of the Artistic cups, but I'm considering a set. Alex did a great video review and included a comparison of the Legend vs. Artistic set. They are very
very close.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 23, 2020 01:02PM)
[quote]On Feb 23, 2020, MagicVin wrote:
Mad Jake,
I liked your input on the legend cups and balls, did you get your hands on a set of the tic artistic cups and balls? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on them. [/quote]

Thanks Jake for mentioning abt the reviews.

I have done YouTube reviews for both cups
Legend Cups: https://youtu.be/2_xP7BJ9L7g
Artistic Cups: https://youtu.be/6rvnhCUeFTc

Btw, if you are thinking which one to get, I would say Artistic Cups is better.
First of all, their color look different from other cups. This will set you apart from other performers (assuming not many ppl using these cups)
Second, their appearance is more uniform and suffer from less surface issue (I saw a few set of Legend Cups, most of all have issues)
Third, Artistic Cups comes with excellent blue balls (we seldom get) and a super nice velvet bag.

Hope these info help.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 23, 2020 03:53PM)
Btw, if you are thinking which one to get, I would say Artistic Cups is better.
First of all, their color look different from other cups. This will set you apart from other performers (assuming not many ppl using these cups)
Second, their appearance is more uniform and suffer from less surface issue (I saw a few set of Legend Cups, most of all have issues)
Third, Artistic Cups comes with excellent blue balls (we seldom get) and a super nice velvet bag.

Hope these info help.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

Alex, I have the Legend polished cups. That's what I based my review on. The Artistic cups are very nice cups as well.
I just can't wrap my head around how China managed to pull off 3 solid brass CNC cups for a retail of 180.00, yet alone
150.00 for copper plated brass. For us to CNC that same exact cup would run us 85.00 per cup just in material costs.

I'm off to go watch your Artistic Cup review. I'm sure it will be just as great as your recorded Legend Cup review.

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 24, 2020 01:06PM)
Hi Jake,

I have recorded the video regarding the Artistic Cup sound for you.

https://youtu.be/6eyY2gGKg7Q

Please tell me if it helps.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 24, 2020 05:43PM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2020, alexhui wrote:
Hi Jake,

I have recorded the video regarding the Artistic Cup sound for you.

https://youtu.be/6eyY2gGKg7Q

Please tell me if it helps.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

Alex,
Thank you for taking the time to do that for me. I like the sound of Artistic cup. Ordering a set tonight.

Jake Jr.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Feb 24, 2020 07:36PM)
They are a bit too heavy for my liking.
Selling my set if anyone is interested
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=709356&forum=76&post=9543400
Message: Posted by: Kit Higginson (Feb 24, 2020 09:14PM)
I recently purchased a set of the Legend Cups and Balls with the polished copper finish as well as a set of Michael Ammar's Artistic Cups and Balls v. 2. I will share a few observations.

Regarding the sonic properties, the cups in each set ring beautifully when struck. However, the pitch of the Artistic Cups and Balls v. 2 is higher than the Legend cups. It is interesting to note that the sound of the TCC Artistic Cups and Balls v. 1, as demonstrated on the promotional video on Penguin and elsewhere, is the same as the Legend cups. It therefore seems likely that the Legend cups are indeed copper plated and rebadged versions of the TCC Artistic Cups and Balls v. 1, as surmised by yin_howe, kcmagic1 and others.

The weight of the ACAB v.2 cups are around 10 oz. each. The Legend cups are around 9 oz. each.

It should be noted that balls in each set are slightly smaller than the 1 1/8 inch balls provided by RNT2 and Sherwood. If you plan on using balls from these manufacturers with either set, they will stack only two on the saddle instead of three.

Lastly, many thanks to Jake, Alex and Frank for your detailed reviews!

Kit
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Feb 24, 2020 11:45PM)
Kit, now you've raised some interesting facts. I have both legend sets now and they ring at a higher pitch than the Artistic sets. At 150.00 they could all just go "Clunk" and
I would still be happy with them for the price paid for them. I plan on getting both Artistic 1 & 2, but another cup manufacturer made my wallet lighter by $750.00. I really
look forward to getting and using the hell of KC's CNC stainless cups.

-MJJ
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Feb 25, 2020 06:14AM)
Just think, it's really a small price to pay for something that you can use the hell out of and then, use the hell out of again and again!
Message: Posted by: MagicVin (Feb 25, 2020 09:16AM)
Which came first? the artistic C&B or the legend C&B?
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 25, 2020 09:42AM)
[quote]On Feb 25, 2020, MagicVin wrote:
Which came first? the artistic C&B or the legend C&B? [/quote]

Artistic v1 in 2017
Artistic v2 in 2018
Legend 2020

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: MagicVin (Feb 25, 2020 09:54AM)
[quote]Artistic v1 in 2017
Artistic v2 in 2018
Legend 2020

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

the reason I ask is I just saw this topic https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=627638&forum=218 from 2016
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Feb 25, 2020 10:03AM)
Maybe they have never released it.
But that is an interesting find.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Feb 25, 2020 04:06PM)
[quote]On Feb 25, 2020, alexhui wrote:
Maybe they have never released it.
But that is an interesting find.

Alex Hui
Hong Kong [/quote]

Alex, I am sure it was released, otherwise, there wouldn't be a trailer attached to the post from 2016. I am curious as well as to why these are now being made into a big deal. The truth is that, although these are heavier duty than others, they will not hold up long term for someone who uses these rough or someone who does several hundred shows per year. They might hold up for a year or two but will ultimately need to be replaced. If the copper coating starts to wear off, they will need to be replaced if you like your props to look a certain way.

An easier way to look at it is, let's say, you are going to be doing a cup routine for 10 years. The cups last two years and need to be replaced. You will have to buy 5 sets of cups throughout the 10 year span. Each set is $150.00. That's a total of $750.00 assuming the cost never goes up, which is highly unlikely. If you plan on performing longer than that, the number goes up and so on. Unless you are a collector, the true question is why would someone want to spend the money on a product that will need to be replaced time and time again? In my case, it was jumbo cups. I needed to replace my cups every year. Not because I wanted to, but because after that long, they did not function properly or as I needed them to. The cost of a good quality copper jumbo cup is $400.00 minimum. You can do the math.
Message: Posted by: MagicVin (Mar 7, 2020 11:31PM)
Mad Jake did you ever end up getting the Michael Ammar Deluxe (artistic 2.0) cups? Still curious what you have to say about them even them vs the legend ones
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 9, 2020 07:55PM)
[quote]On Mar 8, 2020, MagicVin wrote:
Mad Jake did you ever end up getting the Michael Ammar Deluxe (artistic 2.0) cups? Still curious what you have to say about them even them vs the legend ones [/quote]

Not yet. The 1000-G cups got in the way :)
Message: Posted by: kcmagic1 (Mar 9, 2020 09:32PM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2020, Mad Jake wrote:
[quote]On Mar 8, 2020, MagicVin wrote:
Mad Jake did you ever end up getting the Michael Ammar Deluxe (artistic 2.0) cups? Still curious what you have to say about them even them vs the legend ones [/quote]

Not yet. The 1000-G cups got in the way :) [/quote]

Hopefully you are still enjoying them! And that you feel like they are still worth the price tag!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Mar 11, 2020 02:09AM)
[/quote]

Hopefully you are still enjoying them! And that you feel like they are still worth the price tag! [/quote]

Ok, now those two questions are really really Silly :)
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Apr 11, 2020 06:59PM)
It's been a while since most people received these.
Do the Legend Cups patina? or is there a coating that prevents patina?
Message: Posted by: Kit Higginson (Apr 11, 2020 07:16PM)
[quote]On Apr 11, 2020, yin_howe wrote:
It's been a while since most people received these.
Do the Legend Cups patina? or is there a coating that prevents patina? [/quote]

The set I own with the polished copper finish have not yet acquired a patina.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Apr 12, 2020 08:13PM)
[quote]
The set I own with the polished copper finish have not yet acquired a patina. [/quote]

Thanks man. I was hoping that they DO patina. Oh well...