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Topic: New Carpenter Coins
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Mar 30, 2020 02:33PM)
Is this set a Cerberus knock off?

The routine also looks like it *ahem* "borrows" from a key part of Pop Haydn's Intricate Web of Distraction - the whole holding the wrist, can't do that, would be a real miracle... then later does it.....

The middle is standard CSB. What's original here?

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/money-magic/carpenter-coins/
Message: Posted by: chrom (Mar 30, 2020 03:41PM)
Was just thinking the same thing. I think the only thing original is the cost?
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Mar 30, 2020 03:43PM)
It looks like a C/S/B, not sure what is different from cerberus to a CSB. Also the holding of the hand is used by many magicians including Haydn, maybe the wording?
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Mar 30, 2020 03:50PM)
I found this post where Neighbors explained the Carpenter coins, it is from 2 years ago. I did not know what Cerberus was
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=676388&forum=202

For all those gimmicked coins $75 looks ok
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Mar 30, 2020 07:17PM)
Thanks for the link.
Good to know it's a confirmed simultaneous creation.

[quote]On Mar 30, 2020, pabloinus wrote:
I found this post where Neighbors explained the Carpenter coins, it is from 2 years ago. I did not know what Cerberus was
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=676388&forum=202

For all those gimmicked coins $75 looks ok [/quote]
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Mar 30, 2020 11:49PM)
And about 20 - 25 ago I put out A DVD Of 10 routines That can be used with this set ! And a PDF with 3 Routines around 5 years after that !
Message: Posted by: stevefaulkner (Mar 31, 2020 05:12AM)
Hi all,

Here's my review https://youtu.be/dGQzBkBa71A

David your DVD sounds interesting, may check that out after I've played some more.

I hope you're all well and staying safe.
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Mar 31, 2020 11:37AM)
I may be wrong but I think David's DVD is only available with the Cerebus set.
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Apr 1, 2020 01:04AM)
Seems like the set is a standard CSB from a post on the Latest and Greatest and not a version of Cerberus?
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 1, 2020 01:11AM)
Hi PapaG ,

As It Is getting Hard To Get the Set From Todd ! And Jack Has his Set Out now ! I will be Selling the DVD By It's Self ! The set in the Video Is Silver Dollar Size . But the Routines will work with both ! :) E-mail me for more Info ! coinjurer82@gmail.com
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 1, 2020 04:24AM)
What is the difference between cerberus and a standard c/s/b set?

Lassen describes Cerebus as [quote]Ok, now that we have that nasty business aside, we'll have a look at the gaff. Cerberus can be shown very cleanly and with close scrutiny as a silver dollar on both sides. When un-nested it can be shown as 3 different coins. A brass coin, a copper coin, and a silver dollar.[/quote]
Which (from watching the video instructions for the Carpenter gaff) seems pretty much what Vanishing Inc. is selling.
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Apr 1, 2020 06:07AM)
[quote]On Apr 1, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
Hi PapaG ,

As It Is getting Hard To Get the Set From Todd ! And Jack Has his Set Out now ! I will be Selling the DVD By It's Self ! The set in the Video Is Silver Dollar Size . But the Routines will work with both ! :) E-mail me for more Info ! coinjurer82@gmail.com [/quote]

So David, this is different than what was being said on the Latest and Greatest thread.... So this gimmick ISN'T a CSB only gaff then? It would be nice to clarify this to avoid many people buying something they already have.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 1, 2020 06:53AM)
No it is Like C.S.B. And a shell ! :)
Message: Posted by: PapaG (Apr 1, 2020 02:23PM)
Wonder if this can be performed with the set:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzRNPPetzM0
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 1, 2020 03:29PM)
It looks like it ! But I would not be Sure !
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Apr 1, 2020 09:11PM)
I think you need to be Luis Piedrahita to perform that.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 1, 2020 09:52PM)
Yea You maybe right ! :)
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 2, 2020 01:48PM)
[quote]On Apr 1, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
No it is Like C.S.B. And a shell ! :) [/quote]
So to be clear, since I'm ignorant of coin gaffs, is this correct?

A "standard" CSB set has one shell
Carpenter's set (like Lassen's Cerberus) has two nesting shells.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 2, 2020 03:44PM)
Yea So you put The Half shell on top And you can show both sides to be a half. :) So you got it right !
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 2, 2020 04:01PM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
Yea So you put The Half shell on top And you can show both sides to be a half. :) So you got it right ! [/quote]
Thank you David.

There is misinformation out there (even on a comment on the product listing at Vanishing Inc.) that this is a "standard" CSB set, but [b]that is not the case (i.e. this has the extra shell, like Cerebus)[/b], which adds extra possibilities, for other routines and beyond simply being able to show both sides of all coins.

I'm a noob to CSB, so am happy to purchase a set with enhanced capabilities via the extra shell.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 2, 2020 04:16PM)
The One Jack Show me in 2016 Had the shell ! Now I think it is Badly Worded I think it said it had a shell with it !
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 2, 2020 04:29PM)
[quote]On Apr 2, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
The One Jack Show me in 2016 Had the shell ! Now I think it is Badly Worded I think it said it had a shell with it ! [/quote]
Agreed.

The ad copy should probably be clearer so people (who own a stock CSB) don't assume they already own this particular set.

Per the instructional video (I'm waiting for the actual coins to ship) the gaff for Jack's set being sold by Vanishing Inc. does come with the [b]two nesting shells[/b] (vs. the single shell in the standard CSB). So clearly (as with Cerebus) this new set is an enhancement to a standard CSB set.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Apr 2, 2020 05:51PM)
Mine is ordered, AFTER using the online chat on the VI website and confirming that it is NOT a "standard" C/S/B set but it does have the extra gaff that the Lassen / Carpenter "linear invention" (but was also told it pre-dates both of them) <- only repeating what I was told by them (but I forget who they said used a similar gaff this way first)

Anyway, feel free and safe to grab it if you like the effect and don't want another standard C/S/B set. This has the extra turtle.
Message: Posted by: hayabusafan (Apr 3, 2020 09:36AM)
Is the extra turtle in this set expanded?
Message: Posted by: frankw (Apr 3, 2020 10:59AM)
How good is the quality of the coins or the gimmick? I‘m looking for a set for Catch up from Karl Hein. Thanks for the help!
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 3, 2020 04:45PM)
I really like this set. Very glad that I picked it up and really look forward to learning Jack's routine. Last image is a bit blown out (accidentally used flash).

[img]https://i.ibb.co/bbxqYZy/Full-set-plus-kennedy.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/mTFMm2x/Nest-plus-Copper-brass.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/x3xcxrW/Nested-Plus-copper-brass.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 3, 2020 06:18PM)
Ok so A ungaffed Half And An ungaffed Odd coin And you have all the stuff you need to do the the stuff On My video ! :)
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 3, 2020 11:13PM)
[quote]On Apr 3, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
Ok so A ungaffed Half And An ungaffed Odd coin And you have all the stuff you need to do the the stuff On My video ! :) [/quote]

I only had to add one coin (in my top photo)which was an ungaffed half dollar (lower left corner). Everything else comes with the trick (two shells, double sided coin, plus two ungaffed coins). So all in all, a really great deal (for me at least).

There was some talk from other owners (in another thread) that the main gaff (when fully nested) looked too bulky. With my set (as can be seen from the photos) [b]that is certainly not the case.[/b] Perhaps I lucked out, I don't know.
Message: Posted by: frankw (Apr 4, 2020 02:25AM)
Many thanks! I will order the set here in europe.
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 4, 2020 03:38AM)
[quote]On Apr 3, 2020, hayabusafan wrote:
Is the extra turtle in this set expanded? [/quote]Yes, and mine seems to work well over a normal Kennedy half.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 4, 2020 08:31AM)
I Was talking About doing Matrix Stuff ! ( IE the stuff from my Video! ) And for that you will need 4 coins ! So you will need that ungaffed Half And a ungaffed Odd Coin !(Not the Routine that comes With It ! )
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 4, 2020 03:44PM)
[quote]On Apr 4, 2020, David Neighbors wrote:
I Was talking About doing Matrix Stuff ! ( IE the stuff from my Video! ) And for that you will need 4 coins ! So you will need that ungaffed Half And a ungaffed Odd Coin !(Not the Routine that comes With It ! ) [/quote]
Got it! For Matrix, that makes sense.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Apr 6, 2020 11:25AM)
Got my set and love it
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Apr 6, 2020 09:20PM)
[quote]On Apr 4, 2020, Chris Aguilar wrote:
I only had to add one coin (in my top photo)which was an ungaffed half dollar (lower left corner). Everything else comes with the trick (two shells, double sided coin, plus two ungaffed coins). So all in all, a really great deal (for me at least).

There was some talk from other owners (in another thread) that the main gaff (when fully nested) looked too bulky. With my set (as can be seen from the photos) [b]that is certainly not the case.[/b] Perhaps I lucked out, I don't know. [/quote]

The one in the demo looked quite "chunky". Yours looks much better. Quite good for the price point.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Apr 6, 2020 10:05PM)
The height is the same as my Johnson set with a (Johnson) shell on top...there's really no difference at all. I posted my set for sale because I already have the equivalent in multiple sets. But to be frank, the height discussion is a non-issue. If you hold the coins in the palm of your hand while you're introduce them (instead of placing them on a mat) there is absolutely no tell-tale signs...Your flesh provides excellent cover.
Message: Posted by: David Neighbors (Apr 7, 2020 08:36AM)
Hi Gang,
I have 2 DVD'S Left if anyone Wants One ? P.M. Me.
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Apr 8, 2020 04:39PM)
I'll be real here: The set is useful and a fooler for lay audiences. The set is horribly made and if you are used to anything including or above Johnson or Tango coins, you'll be shocked. As stated earlier the short shell edge on the half is a deal killer for craftsmanship. This is NOT a Todd Lassen coin set. That said, you can do miracles with it but it just isn't clean like good sets are. The tolerance are sloppy, loose and the "big nested set" has to be thoughtfully handled and "coddled" in the hand to not reveal the gaffus. A shame. Could be made better. Why not? They probably combined existing items into this set rather than building them for this effect. It is a fair price for a useful item that is poorly crafted but will fool laymen. Here's the real issue. When we work we want to be internally confident. EVEN if it doesn't matter and won't be seen, a dirty gaff is a soul killer and does affect our confidence in presentation. So - I'd rather pay $400 to Lassen or $150 to Tango for something like this. At $75 it's fair but you'll not feet like a King of Magic working this set. Sorry for being blunt. Hope this fairly frames it for those thinking about getting a set.
Message: Posted by: Chris Aguilar (Apr 9, 2020 01:55AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2020, StarManager wrote:
I'll be real here: The set is useful and a fooler for lay audiences. The set is horribly made and if you are used to anything including or above Johnson or Tango coins, you'll be shocked. As stated earlier the short shell edge on the half is a deal killer for craftsmanship. This is NOT a Todd Lassen coin set. That said, you can do miracles with it but it just isn't clean like good sets are. The tolerance are sloppy, loose and the "big nested set" has to be thoughtfully handled and "coddled" in the hand to not reveal the gaffus. A shame. Could be made better. Why not? They probably combined existing items into this set rather than building them for this effect. It is a fair price for a useful item that is poorly crafted but will fool laymen. Here's the real issue. When we work we want to be internally confident. EVEN if it doesn't matter and won't be seen, a dirty gaff is a soul killer and does affect our confidence in presentation. So - I'd rather pay $400 to Lassen or $150 to Tango for something like this. At $75 it's fair but you'll not feet like a King of Magic working this set. Sorry for being blunt. Hope this fairly frames it for those thinking about getting a set. [/quote]

I responded to this elitist nonsense here (i.e. My set is certainly no "Horribly Made", the photos kind of speak for themselves.):

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=218&topic=711179&start=40#6
Message: Posted by: Stephon Johnson (Apr 15, 2020 10:49AM)
Does anyone own a JB Magic Kennedy or WL “deep dish” shell (shell shocked set) AND a Johnson CSB? If so, Please email pictures of the fit and coverage.

BTW: I think the Carpenter set has a shallow shell to facilitate some of the “One-Handed manipulation”. Probably tutorial even mentions it I’ll bet.
Thank you.
Steph
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (Apr 17, 2020 01:39PM)
[quote]On Mar 30, 2020, inigmntoya wrote:
The routine also looks like it *ahem* "borrows" from a key part of Pop Haydn's Intricate Web of Distraction - the whole holding the wrist, can't do that, would be a real miracle... then later does it.....
[/quote]

Update: Full credit is given to Haydn in the tutuorial.
Message: Posted by: Payner44 (May 7, 2020 04:04PM)
[quote]On Apr 3, 2020, Chris Aguilar wrote:
I really like this set. Very glad that I picked it up and really look forward to learning Jack's routine. Last image is a bit blown out (accidentally used flash).

[img]https://i.ibb.co/bbxqYZy/Full-set-plus-kennedy.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/mTFMm2x/Nest-plus-Copper-brass.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/x3xcxrW/Nested-Plus-copper-brass.jpg[/img] [/quote]

Just picked up this set from a private seller on eBay. My Centavo and the matching gaff have a different heads side than seen with Chris' set. Is this common with this set?
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (May 8, 2020 01:43AM)
[quote]On May 7, 2020, Payner44 wrote:
Just picked up this set from a private seller on eBay. My Centavo and the matching gaff have a different heads side than seen with Chris' set. Is this common with this set? [/quote]

Looks like they found a source for genuine 20 Centavos coins - most sets out out these days are replicas with COPIA stamped on them in huge letters.
The looks vary a bit depending on the year they were minted. Hopefully your extra coin matches the gimmick in terms of aging/patina - some haven't, but they should match for the set.
Message: Posted by: inigmntoya (May 8, 2020 01:47AM)
The 3 types are shown at the links below.
Type 3 is the one I've seen most often in CSB and Scotch and Soda sets... Usually 1973 or 1974 dates.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3933.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces959.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3471.html
Message: Posted by: Payner44 (May 8, 2020 06:20AM)
Mine is the third link version. The gaff didn’t match the patina on the genuine coin so I just cleaned both until they did. Thanks for the insight!