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Topic: Mem-deck effects based on red/black effects
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jul 8, 2020 11:22AM)
Hi
In his essay Memories Are Made Of This, Simon Aronson mentioned the power of splitting the deck into two halves of your stack (eg 1-26 vs 27-52). This means you can do lots of effects that would traditionally be done with a red/black split - but you don't have to hide the faces. The arrangement is only known to you.

I am very interested in this concept, because I know I can get to this split arrangement in an impromptu situation, but not to a full stack setup. I am reluctant to use The Subtle Game because I think it might be too obvious.

I am pretty new to magic (well, second time around actually). so the problem is I don't have the background knowledge of what all those great red/black effects actually are. Does anyone have suggestions please?
FYI my ability with sleights is limited, but developing. I can do a Spread Cull, basic DL (but not DT), false shuffle, EC. Can't do things like Pass, Top Change etc. So would like effects that are not too challenging in that regard.
Basically I want the secret split to do the real work.

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: effkay (Jul 9, 2020 04:03AM)
Very interesting and Iíve thought about this too. I havenít managed to come up with anything that the mem deck canít do stacked anyway.

The advantage to me is to be able to shuffle the two halves and divine a card when moved from one to the other.

Iíd be interested to hear thoughts from others too.
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Jul 9, 2020 05:23AM)
Harry Lorayne has published some great red/black, odd/even, points, rounds etc.

I would hit up the Conjuring Archive.
Unfortunately I think the most powerful property of the red/black is lost on memdeck. The ability to riffle peek an off color card/s.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jul 9, 2020 01:47PM)
Any card that is moved from one group to another can be identified, because it doesn't belong in that group. That's the method in a nutshell. I guess you could make up any presentation you like. I just got the impression from Aronson's remark that there were some classic effects where the method was the deck secretly divided red/black.
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Jul 9, 2020 02:18PM)
Donít get me wrong there are a ton of published effects that use the divided deck principle.
Many use it as a step or stop-gap while ordering a deck into order.

For instance Neither Blind Nor Stupid can be done with a red black separation(the original version) however since it can be done with a divided memdeck one might as well. Also one gains the possibility of a less restricted handling. At the conclusion one can continue the journey to stack.
Message: Posted by: Msoriano (Jul 10, 2020 10:40AM)
I was wondering something like this question but with a little difference. Does anybody know a method to reach a red/black stack from mnemonica?
Message: Posted by: sgtgrey (Jul 10, 2020 02:11PM)
Msoriano - there is a drop stack method shared by Denis Behr in Handcrafted Card Magic to go from Mnemonica to Red/Black (and then you can faro back into Mnemonica). Check it out (If you don't already have the book, it's worth getting, anyway!)
Message: Posted by: Msoriano (Jul 12, 2020 03:39AM)
Thanks sgtgrey, that was exactly whats I was looking for. Iíll check it out.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jul 24, 2020 05:35PM)
I just watched Neither Blind Nor Stupid -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHuVYa_fVc

Wow, what a performance. The method was pretty obvious (thanks to post above, thanks!) It's the presentation that really sells it!

Starting with the deck split into two groups, you could get straight into the setup with a Faro - but I can't do that yet!
Nevertheless I am pretty sure I could come up with something.
Message: Posted by: ltrblst (Jul 24, 2020 07:16PM)
[quote]On Jul 25, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
I just watched Neither Blind Nor Stupid -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHuVYa_fVc

Wow, what a performance. The method was pretty obvious (thanks to post above, thanks!) It's the presentation that really sells it!
[/quote]

This is pretty much identical to T.N.T. in Roberto Giobbi Card College Light.
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Jul 25, 2020 04:09AM)
[quote]On Jul 24, 2020, ltrblst wrote:
[quote]On Jul 25, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
I just watched Neither Blind Nor Stupid -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHuVYa_fVc

Wow, what a performance. The method was pretty obvious (thanks to post above, thanks!) It's the presentation that really sells it!
[/quote]

This is pretty much identical to T.N.T. in Roberto Giobbi Card College Light. [/quote]

Yes, exactly the same trick, just different name.

Mark
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Jul 25, 2020 01:03PM)
I love Simon Aronson High Class Location from his book Simply Simon.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 25, 2020 01:17PM)
[quote]
Starting with the deck split into two groups, you could get straight into the setup with a Faro - but I can't do that yet! Nevertheless I am pretty sure I could come up with something. [/quote]

Here's what I did before I could faro:

https://jackshalom.net/2020/07/11/alternatively-speaking-the-landmark-cull/
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Aug 3, 2020 06:05PM)
Thanks Landmark - that's a great technique
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 3, 2020 06:20PM)
"Neither Blind Nor Stupid" doesn't need any set up if you start with a MD in its original order; of course, then you can "only" find the selections and you will not divide the deck in red/black...

BTW, if your goal is to divide the deck in red/black in order to perform a sort of "Out of this World" effect and you do not want to start with "Neither Blind Nor Stupid" in its original order, you could try what I've done many times: Why not do an "Out of this World" routine with a memorized deck, but instead of taking card after card from the top of the deck just spread the deck face down between your hands and let cards fall "randomly" onto the table asking if the card is red or black... of course, knowing the order of the cards you let go just cards of one color. If you do that smoothly and with acting it looks really great and random, even better instead of taking all cards from the top of the deck... Give it a try :) Jan
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Aug 5, 2020 06:23PM)
Sorry, I seem not to have been clear enough in my original post. I do NOT want to sort the deck into red/black at all!!!

From a shuffled deck I can easily divide the cards into two groups based on a memorised stack. Cards 1-26 vs cards 27-52. (With random ordering within each group).
I can display the faces of the cards - because I am the only one who can recognise the groupings.
This is a situation Aronson described in his essay. He said there are many effects that rely on the deck being secretly divided into a red half and a black half - but you cannot show the faces. Whereas with your memorised deck only you know the grouping - so you CAN show the faces.

Simon Aronson said there are LOTS of such effects.
The only thing I can think of is having a card selected from each half and inserted in the other, and then locating them.
My question is please tell me some specific powerful effects that use this principle (the deck being secretly divided into two groups that only the magician knows)

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Aug 16, 2020 03:29PM)
Lie detector. Have them think of a card from first half stack. Then hand them some cards from second half stack and a joker. They shuffle then read off the cards calling their card instead of the joker. You can recognise because from different half.
Message: Posted by: Pasteboard Alchemist (Sep 3, 2020 04:07PM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2020, JanForster wrote:
BTW, if your goal is to divide the deck in red/black in order to perform a sort of "Out of this World" effect and you do not want to start with "Neither Blind Nor Stupid" in its original order, you could try what I've done many times: Why not do an "Out of this World" routine with a memorized deck, but instead of taking card after card from the top of the deck just spread the deck face down between your hands and let cards fall "randomly" onto the table asking if the card is red or black... of course, knowing the order of the cards you let go just cards of one color. If you do that smoothly and with acting it looks really great and random, even better instead of taking all cards from the top of the deck... Give it a try :) Jan [/quote]

Okay, I just did this last night on a whim, and it worked like a dream. How did it never occur to me to "randomly" drop cards to the table for the spec to decide which it is? First "Test Conditions" and now this... Jan is upping my stack game mightily.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Sep 23, 2020 05:00PM)
Just revisiting this thread.

Neither Blind Nor Silly is kind of the opposite of what I am trying to do.
NBNS starts with the cards alternating. Then they get separated into the two groups. It takes time & effort to alternate them.
Whereas it is much easier to whiz through a shuffled deck and quickly divide into two groups. So I wanted the two groups to be the starting point for gradually assembling into full stack.
But with good effects along the way.
Message: Posted by: benedykt (Nov 8, 2020 02:21AM)
Just do shuffle bored from bound to please - simon aronson
but please use your imagination and make your presentation
it is one of the most powerful principles in card magic - thanks to bob hummer
so once again please do not copy presentation of others, make your own
and you'll be have something really special
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jul 15, 2021 01:09PM)
[quote]On Jul 25, 2020, stickmondoo wrote:
I love Simon Aronson High Class Location from his book Simply Simon. [/quote]

I finally (a year later!) got round to looking at this. It's brilliant - thanks!