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Topic: The fundamental problem Magicians have with David Blaine
Message: Posted by: crashfreze (Jun 10, 2004 12:43PM)
I know the subject of Blaine has been absolutely beaten to death and back. For that I apologize in advance. I would like to offer some insight into his success and the feelings other magicians have for Mr. Blaine.

The reason magician's do not like David Blaine is they feel many many more magicians are more deserving of his success. Magicians like Michael Ammar, Bill Malone, Dai Vernon, Ed Marlo, THESE should be the household names, not David Blaine.

First of all, David is a businessman. A very good one as well. He developed a plan to successfully market his magic to ABC executives and did so. So in other words Blaine marketed his product rather than focusing on making his product better than anyone else's.

To give you an example of this I have been asked the question before: can you make a hamburger better than mcdonalds? Yes of course, anyone can. But, can you create a more efficient business plan than the McDonalds corporation? No, I don't think so. But I don't go around screaming "no fair I can make better hamburgers than mcdonalds" which essentially is what the magic community is saying about David.

So here are a bunch of magicians claiming David does not deserve his success. On the other hand David created a great business plan, marketed it to ABC so I believe he DOES deserve his success, as is often the case, strategy is more important than product.

It's no accident McDonalds is the most successful and profitable food franchise in the world. So essentially I'm saying David Blaine is the McDonalds of magicians, and I definitely don't mean that in a bad way. David did not "get lucky" and fall into his success. And magician's have a problem with that. We should be congratulating David instead of tearing him down.
Message: Posted by: MagiUlysses (Jun 10, 2004 03:56PM)
Greetings and Salutations,

I agree with you completely. David Blaine is a marketing genius. He planned his work and worked his plan to great success. He paid his dues along the way, and I thank him for introducing a whole new audience to magic.

Now that that's out of the way, and speaking strictly for myself, the problem I have is the blainiacs who cannot distinguish between inspiration and emulation. There is already one David Blaine, and the problem, in my humble opinion, is the imitators who accost the public with poorly performed bitten coins, two-card montes, levitations of various stripes and other bits of guerilla magic.

There's nothing wrong with being inspired by Blaine, we were all inspired by someone, the problem is copying, or more accurately, poorly copying the original.

That's my $.02 (USD) worth.

Joe in KC

Make magic happen, live a great adventure!
Message: Posted by: LBP MAGIC (Jun 11, 2004 05:28PM)
How many people did Blaine bring to magic? Enough Said!
Message: Posted by: magicmike001 (Jun 11, 2004 05:57PM)
If Michael Ammar was on Tv instaed of Blaine There would still be all the imitators do biten coin and levitations.
Message: Posted by: thegift (Jun 12, 2004 08:30AM)
First of all, I have to agree with magiulysses comments about novice copycats who try to perform in a way completely out of their range. I'm not some veteran pro magician who can put others down though, I'm 17 and still in practice with even the fundementals of magic, but then again I'm honest with myself and don't go off doing the street stuff with just a mix of cards, props, and a hefty dose of temporary blaine inspiration.
I don't see blaine as some business guy, though. I'm more proud of him for not being as abnoxious and eccentric as most of these other big stage/close up casino acts. I was soo relieved when I saw his first street special. I thought "finally I can watch a guy working with people who doesn't even want to be grand or spectacular". when I look back at the other tv specials showing off all these vegas acts I get sick to my stomach!! looking at these corny pretty boy hollywood types with their frickin haircuts and exagerated facial expressions, it almost makes me feel bad that their advertising themselves as the stereotypes for magic, shiny shirts and all.
so good on you david blaine. he might not be as technically accomplished as some others out there, but at least hes not a ham actor/magician. I feel blaine does it as an honest expression, and to me that's much more important.

your views please.........
Message: Posted by: Young Freak (Jun 12, 2004 11:36PM)
I have been doing magic for ten years and I am not a stranger to the Balduchi Levitition, bitten and restored coins etc., etc, I'm sorry and please disagree w/ me if you think I'm wrong about this but David Blain should not be on TV, sure for his "stunts" but not for his magic, he does TWO tricks that impress the hell out of me, one, I know how to do and have been practicing for a year and still can't get and two, the torn deck of cards, I like the trick (stunt?) whatever, and would really love to know how to do it...I am 15 years old and already an acomplished stage magician and "self made freak"(fire eater, human blockhead, pain proof boy etc.)and very well known in my area, sure David is a marketing genius...but that's about it.
Also:
"all these vegas acts I get sick to my stomach!! looking at these corny pretty boy hollywood types with their frickin haircuts and exagerated facial expressions, it almost makes me feel bad that their advertising themselves as the stereotypes for magic, shiny shirts and all."
I agree partly, the shiny shirts all of that other stuff I really could do without, but look at Blain he uses really over dramatic faces that looks as if he is having a seziur(sorry I'm a horrid speller :P)
PLUS he is doing over the counter tricks that any layperson could get and fully understand without any difficulty, the performers in vegas have spent millions on their stage shows and are spectacular and amazing!!!!11I also might add David Blain IS AN ACTOR he admits so in his first book(which was kind of a waste)
BTW street magic is nothing new if you live in New York city or any other big city there is a magician on every other street corner trying to make a living and they are a hell of a lot better the Mr. Blain
Thank you that was my soap box,
Brett
Message: Posted by: Che (Jun 13, 2004 01:16AM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-13 00:36, Young Freak wrote:
one, I know how to do and have been practicing for a year and still can't get [/quote]

Just curious.......Which one is this???
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Jun 13, 2004 02:01AM)
David Blaine did for magic what Yngwie Malmsteen did for guitar playing in the 1980's.
Message: Posted by: joeybaron (Jun 14, 2004 12:03PM)
Young freak, I lived in nyc for 18years. there were very few street magicians. chappy brazil, julian stanley. there were some guys that worked washington sq park. anyhow it is the effect you have on people that david blaine really excells . his methods take a back seat to the effect any given routine has on his audience.the "next david blaine" will not be the guy who can mimic every blaine routine,but rather the one who can think about the essentials of the art,then add there own voice to it and communicate it.
don allan was amazing at this. check out his steven's tape or his book. he used things that are easy to purchase at most shops, but turned it into great close up. magic is a performing art and blaine has carved out a performance style that is him.i bet he can do a lot of technical stuff but has the good taste not to.when he does magic,he serves the entertainment,communicative aspects of magic. I think this is great. joey
Message: Posted by: Midnight333 (Jun 14, 2004 06:21PM)
I dislike David Blane for one simple fact> That he beat me to the punch. I wish I had thought to go to a magic store buy 200 dollars worth of easy to do magic and then market the hell out of it. He's not an artist, he's a business man. That's fine. don't give him all this credit for being a magician, he's not. He's some guy that found a niche then sold the f*** out of himself. By the way after all the levitations exposes that followed his premier, the balducci has become worthless. Oh by the way the other bad thing is that all you young kids should be inspired by the aformentions artists, not Blane. And to the gentleman ripping on those so called "pretty boy" magicians. Don't hate. Just because they get to be in close proximity to ultra hot girls and you are not doesn't mean one day that you cant. Don't hate the magic player, hate the magic game.
Message: Posted by: deerbourne (Jun 15, 2004 12:37AM)
On Blaine copy-cats:
Spend some time reading Milbourne's History of Magic. Continually the same thread keeps coming up. Acts get stolen and modified and Magicians try to pass themselves off a someone else more famous.

This isn't anything new. Eventually the fad of copying his style of magic will fade and something new will appear on the scene.

As long as someone can perform for an audience there will be someone else waiting to cash in on it.

Deerbourne
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Jun 15, 2004 11:13PM)
Someone told me this -
"..I HATE DAVID BLAINE BECAUSE HE IS GAY!.."

IS THIS TRUE???
Message: Posted by: Young Freak (Jun 16, 2004 03:16AM)
Blaine is not gay, he has a very hot girlfriend. Plus you should not hate someone just because they are gay.
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Jun 16, 2004 06:20AM)
Sorry,I was just asking. Plus I did not imply that statement, it was a friend of mine.
Message: Posted by: mplegare (Jun 20, 2004 01:00AM)
... from the Magic Radio Show...

"And David Blaine was dating Sheryl Crow at the time, and her producer talked him into doing a TV special -"

"... see, RIGHT THERE! Nevermind the special. HE WAS DATING SHERYL CROW! THAT'S WHY WE HATE HIM!!!"

Heh.
Message: Posted by: bsc (Jun 20, 2004 09:11AM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-12 09:30, thegift wrote:
[....] I don't see blaine as some business guy, though. I'm more proud of him for not being as abnoxious and eccentric as most of these other big stage/close up casino acts. I was soo relieved when I saw his first street special. I thought "finally I can watch a guy working with people who doesn't even want to be grand or spectacular". [....] so good on you david blaine. he might not be as technically accomplished as some others out there, but at least hes not a ham actor/magician. I feel blaine does it as an honest expression, and to me that's much more important.

your views please.........[/quote]

I agree with the good marketing observations that started the thread. And I would also say that the "humble" thing is also part of the act. I saw him on some interview in the UK and he [i]was[/i] pretty obnoxious: if I'd been the interviewer I'd probably have stopped it early on and spent the rest of the morning mentioning his unfriendly behavour ;)
Message: Posted by: Alan Morgan (Jun 20, 2004 09:49PM)
He has brought magic into the spotlight for the right reasons (compared to the masked magic-murderer aka Valentino).

That's worth applauding in my books.
He isn't exactly famous for his magic in Australia, but for his recent stunts.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Jun 25, 2004 08:19PM)
Yes, what these "kids" do not realize is, that David did his homework for many years before going to the streets. he mastered sleight of hand,(especially with cards) studied tons of great books on magic, and magic history, and put in countless hours of practice. Blaine did not go to an online magic shop, add an item to cart, receive it in 3 days, then take it the streets an hour later. it is very humorous to say the least that these kids think that they can be a Blaine type of performer overnight without much practice. then when they cant accomplish the results he did, he must be a fake etc...

yea he uses a few edits here and there, and I cant stand his stunts etc, however for the most part I like all the magic he does, and the character he portrays in his environment. it is well suited for where he lives. heck he even got me back into magic a few times. as wayno said, many teens go through magic as a stage of life, but only the true magi at heart will continue the cycle.
Message: Posted by: natswift (Jul 3, 2004 04:59PM)
OK. My turn to share my thoughts.
Blaine in my opinion is a fair magician. Nothing really new in his act. But he is promoting magic for all of us. How much easier is it to bring up the topic of magic when there's buzz on the streets? We shouldn't be bad talking a magician just because he made it to prime time. We should all study magic and business and take notes along the way.
Are we all forgetting Houdini? Houdini was not a "great" magician. But as for his showmanship skills!
How many of us practice showmanship?
Anyhoo, Congrats David and good luck keeping it going. As to the rest of us... keep studying, marketing, and entertaining.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Jul 5, 2004 02:39PM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-16 00:13, dynamiteassasin wrote:
Someone told me this -
"..I HATE DAVID BLAINE BECAUSE HE IS GAY!.."

IS THIS TRUE???
[/quote]
That's what Dale Earnhardt fans said about Jeff Gordon. lol They just can't stand a rival who wins.
Message: Posted by: fanwun (Jul 7, 2004 09:19AM)
I don't think David is a rip off. The effects he performs didn't really become "over the counter" effects until after his specials. He is a good marketer and he is a good magician. What I think urks a lot of magicians is the fact that he did not go the traditional route. He didn't build a name for himself in the magic community before getting on TV. Most other magicians, if not all, were known in the magic community before landing spots on the Tonight Show, let alone have their own special.

I also think that David is a wake up call to all of us. In my view, we've gotten way too snobby. Many a magician miss the point that laymen are our targeted audience. All the super technical sleights and effects that fry magicians oft times hold no weight with laymen. Laymen don't care how "invisible" your pass is or how many half dollars you can palm. David's routines scream to other magicians, "Hey, all that ultra-technical stuff is cool, but look, I'm getting great reactions from just a double lift. WAKE UP!!!"

Personally, I think magic dealers are more at fault than David Blaine is. Most of them have packaged the effects that he performed so they can make a buck. There are DVD's being sold that only teach the Balducci Levitation and David Blaine did not come out with it. So, the Blaine wannabe's are actually borne in magic shops. Last time I checked, David doesn't sell any of the effects he performs. He's created a buzz and we should take advantage of it.
Message: Posted by: Richard Allen (Jul 7, 2004 12:02PM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-14 19:21, Midnight333 wrote:
I dislike David Blane for one simple fact> That he beat me to the punch. I wish I had thought to go to a magic store buy 200 dollars worth of easy to do magic and then market the hell out of it. He's not an artist, he's a business man. That's fine. don't give him all this credit for being a magician, he's not. He's some guy that found a niche then sold the f*** out of himself. By the way after all the levitations exposes that followed his premier, the balducci has become worthless. Oh by the way the other bad thing is that all you young kids should be inspired by the aformentions artists, not Blane. And to the gentleman ripping on those so called "pretty boy" magicians. Don't hate. Just because they get to be in close proximity to ultra hot girls and you are not doesn't mean one day that you cant. Don't hate the magic player, hate the magic game.
[/quote]

Do your research... Blaine was doing magic for years and years before he did his TV special. Also, as fanwun said, his effects didn't become over the counter until after his special... hence the success of sites like Ellusionist.

Blaine made an important realization... the effect is what counts. Also, Blaine didn't overexaggerate himself and spit out a bunch of pointless one-liners and rapid-fire patter... no filler... just magic.

Watch "Magic in the Streets" if it ever comes on TV... several famous magicians, including Michael Ammar and Johnny Ace Palmer, perform for people in the streets. Notice that you never hear about any of these magicians from laypeople... and why no one ever mentions this special when you do a trick... and ask yourself why.

The answer is simple. I won't give it to you, but it is very simple, and perhaps that is why the true secret to magic is often overlooked.
Message: Posted by: waveman (Jul 7, 2004 04:03PM)
I personally don't like his performance. I don't know him personally so I can't say weather I like HIM or not.

I can comment on the tricks he does, but here's the deal.

How many of your friends say "Hey can you do that trick that Waveman does?"

He's pretty popular, easier to watch than the news, and I would say has more sucess than me, so he's gotta be doin somthin right.
Message: Posted by: cardician17821 (Jul 7, 2004 07:32PM)
Blaine is ok, entertaining and astounding to the laymen, he did his homework and has earned his success. All the more power to him. My problem is his stunts, who cares if you lay in a box for x days or stand in a hollowed out block of ice, what does that have to do with magic? I respect the guy for his accomplishments but lets see some new cutting edge stuff!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 7, 2004 08:14PM)
TV pays the rent. Do a stunt. Name recognition.

Do you think Blaine does $75 birthday parties?

What do you think the top line party workers are getting for an hour or so of close up these days?

Thanks to Blaine, upwards of $500 to $1000 plus tip.

What Blaine put on tv was not magic tricks, it was AUDENCE REACTIONS.

What performer wouldn't give his right arm for the reactions he got in the Dallas Cowboy's locker room?

He not only knows his magic, his audience and market, but has one of the most knowledgable behind the scenes guy in magic.

Give him credit, give him thanks.
Message: Posted by: Devoted (Jul 7, 2004 08:27PM)
Wow relax guys. I only preform ala cart. I will preform anywhere anytime to anyone. I do restaurant, conventions anything. And David has given us (magicians) some crediability. Carry a bite coin, do a leviatation, who cares.

Then do something you are good at. Carry forward. The man put a lot of effort into this, I know I am trying to get a show right now, and he is a great actor. Many magicians will admit they are actors (houdini tried his hand at it even).

Weather you think his magic is better or worst than the greats isn't really the point. The greats are a wonderful resource, if everone knew their names you wouldn't have jobs. This is the information age. You can tell how everyone famous does their magic with a simple click click. We pay hommage to them and I think they would take more respect from us then from some trash who thinks "it all camera tricks"

If you allow someone else to get under your skin then they have won, you have failed and in the end you are left with hatred that is completely destroying who YOU are.

Learn from his successes and discard your petty differances. Roll with it and you will be happier and better off.
Message: Posted by: fanwun (Jul 8, 2004 10:32AM)
Hey Pete, they should put "He knows it all" under Inner Circle. I mean that as a compliment and I hope you take it that way.

As for David, I think he is trying to invent a new aspect of magic. I don't really care for his stunts either, but he does them for a reason. Just think, there was no such thing as Escapology before Houdini. I can imagine a young mage, 50 or so years from now, saying, "David Blaine did this stunt..." When you look at it, most escape artists model their acts after things Houdini did. I could be wrong with my theory, but it's just a thought.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jul 8, 2004 10:42AM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-16 00:13, dynamiteassasin wrote:
Someone told me this -
"..I HATE DAVID BLAINE BECAUSE HE IS GAY!.."

IS THIS TRUE???
[/quote]

Is it important?
Message: Posted by: waveman (Jul 8, 2004 03:23PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-07 21:14, Pete Biro wrote:
TV pays the rent. Do a stunt. Name recognition.

Do you think Blaine does $75 birthday parties?

What do you think the top line party workers are getting for an hour or so of close up these days?

Thanks to Blaine, upwards of $500 to $1000 plus tip.

What Blaine put on tv was not magic tricks, it was AUDENCE REACTIONS.

What performer wouldn't give his right arm for the reactions he got in the Dallas Cowboy's locker room?

He not only knows his magic, his audience and market, but has one of the most knowledgable behind the scenes guy in magic.

Give him credit, give him thanks.
[/quote]

True, weather we like him or not he is a household name.

I would even say he has gotten people interested in magic again, not to the point that Doug Henning did, but still I know a lot of people that loved his tv appearances.
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Jul 8, 2004 06:46PM)
When Kreskin was the biggest name in American mystery, all the disgruntled wannabes slammed Kreskin.

When Doug Henning was the biggie, they slammed Henning.

When Copperfield was tops, they slammed Copperfield.

When Lance Burton came to the fore, they slammed Burton.

When David Blaine appeared in the spotlight, they slammed Blaine.

Who will the "barrel full of crabs" try to pull down for being successful tomorrow...hmmmmm...?

Steve
Message: Posted by: Richard Lucas (Jul 8, 2004 10:57PM)
There is a four letter word that says it all. I only hope I can get away with it before those da***ble censors read this.


It is.................



ENVY.
Message: Posted by: Marco S. (Jul 9, 2004 06:57AM)
Crashfreze, you are right in everything you write.
David has the charisma that other magicians don`t have. Moreover, the way he presents his tricks is direct as can be, no fooling around or being the nice magician. That is what makes him a mystery to many people.
Message: Posted by: MISTER E (Jul 10, 2004 06:32AM)
The fundamental problem magicians have with Blaine is not with Blaine, but with themselves. Richard Lucas nailed it an above post... it's envy. Plain and simple.

If one cannot find the positive in individuals who are essentially pushing our artform forward and allowing magic to evolve (and that's NOT evolve to you and me, that's evolve to the spectators), then the only thing they have to contribute is negativity: criticisms, slander, or contempt; which by the way are all fear-based. Call it "insecurity." Call it "immaturity." Call it "unworthiness." Sure, call it "your humble opinion," but when you boil it all down, if you hate someone, it's either because you're scared of what they can do, or you're scared of what you can't.

Admittedly, I, too, was envious of Blaine. Upon further contemplation, I learned to see the positive in what he has done. Here's the bottom line... the man set goals and achieved them. If you can't admire that, perhaps you're not setting your own goals high enough.

So to all the "haters" out there, learn to appreciate. Otherwise, no one will ever appreciate you.

-E
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Jul 15, 2004 10:59AM)
Blaine has a weird way in presenting his magic...
BUT he does it well. I envy the reactions he gets when he performs a trick. They scream.
Message: Posted by: Markymark (Jul 17, 2004 10:50AM)
I just feel that it's a shame the amount of lay people
who will never get to see really brilliant live magicians [who need no editing] You know the one's..
Tommy Wonder,Swiss,Jay, etc.. Busy working but no
T.V. specials...The glass box thing was just silly!
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jul 17, 2004 11:38PM)
What magicians want to see are not the same things that laymen want to see - when will magicians realize that?

Laymen don't care how great your pass is, they don't care that you have a new method to float, they don't care about anything we care about!

In fact, most laypeople actualy don't even like magicians at all! They would easily perfer to goto a good baseball game over a David Copperfield show any day.

The bottom line is simple: do people like you? I'm not asking if they like your magic, I mean - do they like you? That's the bottom line: people like David Blaine - period. It has nothing to do with his magic.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jul 18, 2004 06:51PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-07 13:02, Richard Allen wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-06-14 19:21, Midnight333 wrote:
I dislike David Blane for one simple fact> That he beat me to the punch. I wish I had thought to go to a magic store buy 200 dollars worth of easy to do magic and then market the hell out of it. He's not an artist, he's a business man. That's fine. don't give him all this credit for being a magician, he's not. He's some guy that found a niche then sold the f*** out of himself. By the way after all the levitations exposes that followed his premier, the balducci has become worthless. Oh by the way the other bad thing is that all you young kids should be inspired by the aformentions artists, not Blane. And to the gentleman ripping on those so called "pretty boy" magicians. Don't hate. Just because they get to be in close proximity to ultra hot girls and you are not doesn't mean one day that you cant. Don't hate the magic player, hate the magic game.
[/quote]

Do your research... Blaine was doing magic for years and years before he did his TV special. Also, as fanwun said, his effects didn't become over the counter until after his special... hence the success of sites like Ellusionist.
[/quote]

You mean nobody was using folding coins or Invisable Decks until David started?

THE N.Y.C. street magician was Jeff Sheridan. He reinvented the art-form of street magic and could blow David out of the water. Pity he didn't have the marketing skills (or desires) to try to get a special.
Message: Posted by: MischiefMagicX (Aug 7, 2004 11:29PM)
For the most part, I like Blaine. Out of all the household magicians (Copperfielf, S&R, Penn and Teller, etc) he is my favorite because he doesn't need a stage to floor people (no pun intended.) Now I'm sure these people can do close up just as well and probably better then Blaine, but that's not how they do it. Blaine had brought raw in-your-face magic back to the spotlight and I find it easier to get peoples attention with magic now.

The only things I don't like about him are his stunts (b/c they are not really astonishing as much as they are admirable) and the fact that every once in a while when I perform a card effect people say hey you're like david blaine....other than that, it's cool.
Message: Posted by: paulmagic (Aug 9, 2004 09:30AM)
Just a quick introduction. I am very new to the magic scene and this is my first post. It's a hobby of mine and I picked up magic because my focus is on gospel magic.

Ok, about Blaine, I don't like his TV stunts that are related to "endurance"- stuff like encasing himself in ice etc. as I think this is dangerous and does not really have anything to do with magic and illusion. But I like his street magic specials because they are entertaining sand he makes it seem so natural.

Whatver one may feel about Blaine as a person, he is the in thing to many and we need to accept this and get on with life. (Well, from my part of the world - Malaysia, anyway). Here TV rules, so if you ask the man on the street to name a famous magician, it will normally either be David Copperfield (if you are older) or David Blaine. So the best thing I can think of is to make use of his reputation for my own "gain."

As a beginner with limited resources and professionally made props / tools, and a limited time to practice, Blaine's reputation has helped me personally as I use lines like "well, I am not David Blaine, I'll try but it may not work ..." (and so when it works, it's a bigger boost! :)
If it should fail - but lest you jump to conclusions - the secret is not revealed :)like my floating dollar bill suddenly crashes, I merely have to sigh and say something like, "well, I am not David Blaine" and I get sympathy rather than brickbats. And I can quickly move on to something else.

* For the record, I do know the basic rule of never doing a trick without first practicing and then more practicing etc.

My personal approach is the "not so competent and confident magician" who unexpectedly delivers.

Again, because Blaine is so polished on TV and I do not claim to be as good as Blaine, it helps, it is actually a positive thing. (I presume all the best audience reactions made the final editors cut)
For example when someone asks about the ash and name trick, (By the way, I doubt Blaine could pull this off on the streets where I live) I can simply shake my head and explain that is too hard for me - that I am not up to Blaine's level ... BUT, I then would suggest a less difficult ash trick - using a pack of cards. The reaction to their chosen card showing up with the ash on the arm gets just as big a reaction!

Just my 2 cents (which is worth much elss than USD 2 cents)
Message: Posted by: fanwun (Aug 9, 2004 09:37AM)
Uuuhhh...actually, the "ash and name trick" is a lot easier than you may think.
Message: Posted by: paulmagic (Aug 9, 2004 10:08AM)
I know how to do the ash and the name trick. :)
My point actually was a hint that common American names are easy to do. Try and do a chinese name! Not so easy.:)
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Aug 9, 2004 04:49PM)
>I don't like his TV stunts that are related to "endurance"- stuff like encasing himself in ice etc. as I think this is dangerous and does not really have anything to do with magic and illusion.

Expand your mind; miracles cover a lot of ground. Carnival Fakir acts have made a cottage industry of this sort of thing. Not all 'magic' is intended to look patently impossible; some simply looks extraordinary to the point of skirting the impossible. Many of these 'dangerous' stunts are not as dangerous as they appear.

If you can't think of such things as endurance stunts, grifted strongman stunts, fakir stunts, grifted martial arts stunts and escapes as magic, at least accept them as closely allied sciences.

Above all, accept them as viable methods of intriguing and entertaining the lay public.

Steve
Message: Posted by: paulmagic (Aug 9, 2004 09:56PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-09 17:49, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
>I don't like his TV stunts that are related to "endurance"- stuff like encasing himself in ice etc. as I think this is dangerous and does not really have anything to do with magic and illusion.

Expand your mind; miracles cover a lot of ground. Carnival Fakir acts have made a cottage industry of this sort of thing. Not all 'magic' is intended to look patently impossible; some simply looks extraordinary to the point of skirting the impossible. Many of these 'dangerous' stunts are not as dangerous as they appear.

Point taken. I am new to all this and I appreciate your insight. But I was actually thinking more of people who want to follow him as a role model. Without the professional special precautions etc. aren't even seemingly simple magic stunts pretty dangerous?

For example, when I signed up yesterday, the rules and etiquette section had lots of warning about "fire tricks".

The FEAR factor shows for example have lots of warnings about not trying such stunts at home etc. because they know there will be many misguided people who would think they could do such stunts.

Similar disclaimers come from WWE and they make sure it is marketed as "sports entertainment" as too many glamour copy cats have hurt themselves badly.

This is why I don't like such stunts and consider them dangerous as copy cats will forget that don't have the professional training and support team.

But for things like street magic etc. I feel this is very differnt. It is entertaining.

BUT I will try to expand my thinking - that s why I am here to learn, so thanks!
Message: Posted by: Partizan (Aug 10, 2004 01:41AM)
Crowds and large groups of people, if viewed as a single entity, are about as smart as a chicken.
Chickens will let anything occupy their minds.
If you were to stand in a public place in a robe and hum a tone, over and over. you would get a crowd of people start to watch you. they are curious as to what its about, what will happen next. This is the tactics of DB's big stunts. They are corn for chickens.
I know a strongman that can bang 8" nails into a 4" thick plank of wood, with his bare hand. Then pulls the nail out with his teeth. This is his act for a long time. Many people the world over know him.
His act is amazing if not strange, but the content is superior to anything I have seen from DB. Once I saw him perform his 3 sets. He split his (hammering) hand on the first set but carried on. He then went on to do the other 2 sets in this condition. The cheers and applause from the crowds was amazing. Think about it! This guy is splattering blood all over as he try's to entertain, and the crowd love it. His hand was wrecked but he was back the next day for 3 more sets 80

Blaines "street magic" is a well crafted product. Where I have issues is with the presentation. I find it nasty the way his shows were manipulated by production. and in turn manipulate the unknowing audience.
After watching a show I thought about what I'd just seen. Looked very much like a commercial to me. In fact I felt some residual marketing had been used on me. Very clever, very nasty.
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Aug 10, 2004 09:55AM)
As far as "insurance disclaimers" go ("Don't try this at home!") Ultimately you cannot "idiot proof" the public. Sooner or later someone will emulate something they saw in a movie, TV episode or live show and get injured (and they do). Look at the kids who have gotten fractured trying to imitate TV wrestlers. You cannot, however, let the existence of idiots in the world hamper your ability to do your thing. State your case, do your thing, and hope most of your audience will show common sense (while knowing a few won't).

Steve
Message: Posted by: fanwun (Aug 10, 2004 10:12AM)
Paulmagic,

I know what you meant. I just got my countries a lil mixed up. you're from malaysia, is was thinking the phillipines. in any event, I already slapped myself. I could still do the trick in malaysia. I would just use shapes or something instead of names.
Message: Posted by: MinnesotaChef (Aug 11, 2004 08:37AM)
Leaving my personal opinions out of this there is one thing to remember: None of us get told by a tv executive what can and cannot be put into our act. We don't get told that our favorite routine isn't commecial enough to be included, or that it has to be "dumbed down" for the veiwing public. I'm sure he hears this 100 times for every show he puts on the air. When the people with the money start making decisions; you do a lot less what you want to do, and a lot more of what you have to do. I know from experience.
Message: Posted by: EvanSparts (Aug 11, 2004 09:27AM)
The only problem I have is when I hear a magician say "have you ever seen blaine do this" tehn show the people he can immatate blaine. Using Blaine's success to try to build their own.

I think the envy thing is dead on. I envy him he's doing what he wants to for a living and doing what he loves, and he makes good money at it.

one last thing to be envious about and I will shutup ready.... he dated Josie Moran.
Message: Posted by: fanwun (Aug 11, 2004 10:24AM)
I don't think anyone should envy David Blaine. Just find your niche and work it. At first, it really is a matter of faith. Yes, there is a chance that you could fail. Still, if you never step out of the boat, you won't succeed either. After your first check, the belief is out the window. It's only a matter of consistency after that.

I'm with you EvanSparts concerning those of us who try to piggy back off his success. When people start talking about Blaine, I usually stop performing for a moment. I do perform some of the same effects, but never when someone asks. My reasoning is that they liked his performance, so I enhance their wonder for him. I go into a little chat of how cool the effect they're speaking of was. Then, I mention one or two other effects that I like to see him perform. This increases their enthusiasm and I continue my performance.
Message: Posted by: mdspark (Aug 11, 2004 11:41PM)
The only problem I have with David Blaine is....he mumbles.
Message: Posted by: Brent McLeod (Aug 12, 2004 08:30PM)
As Stated in previous forums-

I personally admire David simply for the reasons of
Bringing Simple effective Magic to the forefront of TV again!, Good on him for having the business nous to actually do this!

You don't need a multi million dollar Illusion show to be a household name!

Lay people enjoy this type of Magic-unfortunately at times some Magicians will always be envious of this

Thanks David for doing simple "Magic"
Message: Posted by: paulmagic (Aug 13, 2004 09:41PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-10 11:12, fanwun wrote:
Paulmagic,

I know what you meant. I just got my countries a lil mixed up. you're from malaysia, is was thinking the phillipines. in any event, I already slapped myself. I could still do the trick in malaysia. I would just use shapes or something instead of names.
[/quote]

Exactly my point. I think we are thinking along the same lines. I would not do names but use a pack of cards, force a card and have the card image turn up on my arm.

I am having fun.:)
Message: Posted by: Logan Five (Aug 20, 2004 01:30AM)
He reminds me of a young Steven Wright, the dead pan comic. But give him some credit.. he and his creative team as Pete Biro stated focused on the audience reactions to what he did, not so much how he did it. Unlike most magicians.. he didn't show off his skill level, but the reactions from the people he did his effects for. He make THAT matter, not his skill & how talented he supposedly is.

My 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 20, 2004 07:53AM)
In defence of Blaine's "stunts" (which I myself don't paticularly like), realize the the media never bothered to include David's pitch in their reports ...

... Blaine creates a character that has "magical powers". His reason behind being in the box was to bring his spirital side closer to this magicial power, like meditaion on steroroids.

I admire the character he created, and don't knock him for attempting to do some artistic that the media took out of context. But overall, I'm sure even Blaine would admit the box didn't go as planned. I'm sure we've all had tricks not go as planned, we just don't have as many people watching as Blaine does.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 3, 2004 09:37PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-09 07:57, Marco S. wrote:
Crashfreze, you are right in everything you write.
David has the charisma that other magicians don`t have. Moreover, the way he presents his tricks is direct as can be, no fooling around or being the nice magician. That is what makes him a mystery to many people.
[/quote]

The problem is, I've seen his first two specials and I don't see any charisma whatsoever. He's like a "grunge" magician.
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 4, 2004 08:53AM)
Charisma isn't always 'voice of God' or shining smile charisma. Charisma can be subtle and understated, like James Dean.
Message: Posted by: amadrigal (Sep 10, 2004 03:57AM)
Blain is the STEVEN WRIGHT OF Magic
STEVEN WRIGHT is funny but in his own way
Blain : great marketer, vg w/ cards and a decent film editor nothing more BRAVO BLAIN

I am not a big fan but he got me more interested in magic
my magic heroes are Daryl and Ammar P&T Harry Anderson
etc. but I am no longer a layman you see.....
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Sep 20, 2004 11:10PM)
I used to be a big Blaine hater. I mean c'mon. We watch him on TV and say to ourselves "I can do that one", why is he so famous? Read his book "Mysterious Stranger". After reading that book, I have a new found respect for the man. He has had a long haul to get to where he was. It took a lot more than doing a few tricks for ABC executives. He had a lot of luck and being at the right place at the right time, and knowing the right people. If you have those connections, then you can probably go far in anything you do.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 21, 2004 11:05PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-11 10:27, EvanSparts wrote:
The only problem I have is when I hear a magician say "have you ever seen blaine do this" tehn show the people he can immatate blaine. Using Blaine's success to try to build their own.

I think the envy thing is dead on. I envy him he's doing what he wants to for a living and doing what he loves, and he makes good money at it.

one last thing to be envious about and I will shutup ready.... he dated Josie Moran.
[/quote]

How am I envious of David Blaine if I feel that other magicians have better talent? (I know none of those magicians are me!) I'm not envious of Blaine nor do I hate him. I thought his first special was pretty decent until I discovered he used two different levitations, one for the camera and one for the audience. (And actually digitized the footage so magicians could not spot the gimmick.) My respect for his abilities and tenacity have diminished somewhat with his latest trend in "endurance" stunts. (Which, sadly, Copperfield felt he had to try to emulate.)

[quote]
Expand your mind; miracles cover a lot of ground. Carnival Fakir acts have made a cottage industry of this sort of thing. Not all 'magic' is intended to look patently impossible; some simply looks extraordinary to the point of skirting the impossible. Many of these 'dangerous' stunts are not as dangerous as they appear.
[/quote]

But that doesn't mean I have to be interested in them.

I like the line in "Bruce Almighty;" "Parting a bowl of soup isn't a miracle, it's a magic trick. A single mother working two jobs to take care of her family who still manages to get her son to soccer practice... that's a miracle!"

Standing in a block of ice, or on a platform, or in a plastic box aren't 'miracles' in any sense. They're just dumb stunts.
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 22, 2004 05:23AM)
>"They're just dumb stunts."

Some feel the same about magic, or about entertainment in general; a pointless activity that achieves nothing functional (how many Amish illusionists have we seen?)

>"But that doesn't mean I have to be interested in them."

No it doesn't, but that brings up a greater truth about stunts, about magic, and about life in general.

Importance and where we place interest is a matter of perspective. Most average Joes could not quote you the name of more than one magician (usually Houdini or Merlin).

That alone should deflate the egoes of most self-important magicians (especially escape artists, who have egos as big as Texas).

Strip away the religious beliefs and the self-directed philosophies and we're microbes on a cosmic speck clawing to maintain a pointless survival in a universe that is slowly expanding and unravelling at the molecular level. From that perspective, life itself is a joke and all our efforts an exercise in wheel-spinning. Guess what that says about everything we do or concern ourselves with...including magic?

Steve
Message: Posted by: shadeofgray777 (Sep 22, 2004 12:17PM)
I thinks david blaine is the best thing in the world, he gets me buisness!!

I ask the spectator "have you ever seen david baine?" they say "yes, I love this trick or that trick he did"
then I one up him and they are even more amazed
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 23, 2004 05:30AM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-10 13:43, crashfreze wrote:
I know the subject of Blaine has been absolutely beaten to death and back. For that I apologize in advance. I would like to offer some insight into his success and the feelings other magicians have for Mr. Blaine.

The reason magician's do not like David Blaine is they feel many many more magicians are more deserving of his success. Magicians like Michael Ammar, Bill Malone, Dai Vernon, Ed Marlo, THESE should be the household names, not David Blaine.

First of all, David is a businessman. A very good one as well. He developed a plan to successfully market his magic to ABC executives and did so. So in other words Blaine marketed his product rather than focusing on making his product better than anyone else's.

To give you an example of this I have been asked the question before: can you make a hamburger better than mcdonalds? Yes of course, anyone can. But, can you create a more efficient business plan than the McDonalds corporation? No, I don't think so. But I don't go around screaming "no fair I can make better hamburgers than mcdonalds" which essentially is what the magic community is saying about David.

So here are a bunch of magicians claiming David does not deserve his success. On the other hand David created a great business plan, marketed it to ABC so I believe he DOES deserve his success, as is often the case, strategy is more important than product.

It's no accident McDonalds is the most successful and profitable food franchise in the world. So essentially I'm saying David Blaine is the McDonalds of magicians, and I definitely don't mean that in a bad way. David did not "get lucky" and fall into his success. And magician's have a problem with that. We should be congratulating David instead of tearing him down.
[/quote]

If you want to equate talent with mass-marketing hamburgers.

[quote]
On 2004-09-22 06:23, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
>"They're just dumb stunts."

Some feel the same about magic, or about entertainment in general; a pointless activity that achieves nothing functional (how many Amish illusionists have we seen?)
[/quote]

I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining.

[quote]
>"But that doesn't mean I have to be interested in them."

No it doesn't, but that brings up a greater truth about stunts, about magic, and about life in general.

Importance and where we place interest is a matter of perspective. Most average Joes could not quote you the name of more than one magician (usually Houdini or Merlin).

That alone should deflate the egoes of most self-important magicians (especially escape artists, who have egos as big as Texas).

Strip away the religious beliefs and the self-directed philosophies and we're microbes on a cosmic speck clawing to maintain a pointless survival in a universe that is slowly expanding and unravelling at the molecular level. From that perspective, life itself is a joke and all our efforts an exercise in wheel-spinning. Guess what that says about everything we do or concern ourselves with...including magic?

Steve
[/quote]

Dude! I leave the great questions of life to sort themselves out. Short of harming anyone, I'm just trying to keep myself above water and have as good a time as possible while doing so.
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 23, 2004 04:19PM)
"I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining."

So...if it's not entertaining to YOU...it doesn't go for anyone?

Steve
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 24, 2004 12:01PM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-23 17:19, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
"I don't ask that everything in life be functional. I would like things that are not functional to be at least entertaining."

So...if it's not entertaining to YOU...it doesn't go for anyone?

Steve
[/quote]

Not at all. You want to watch David stand on/in something (an ice cube, a platform, a plastic box) be my guest. Just don't expect me to acknowledge that there's anything of value going on here. (Watching magic, real magic, does have value. It wakes up the "little kid" inside who we keep losing touch with as we get older.)
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 24, 2004 05:38PM)
Well, first off, I wonder how far your denigration of "stupid stunts" goes; does it apply to all performers doing them...or just David Blaine (in which case it's not the stunt, but the man).

Harry Houdini spent an hour and a half in a sealed coffin in a swimming pool. The Amazing Randi did the same thing in the 1950s, staying down an extra hour. Years later, Randi broke a guinness record for being entombed in ice.

Do all extraordinary performances that do not involve productions, vanishes, transpositions, etc. constitute "stupid stunts?" If so, I'm afraid a large portion of the human populace are in opposition to your absolutist view.

For, if so, the feats of Houdini, The Wallendas, Petit, Karel Soucek, Evel Knievel and countless circus performers have been totally 'un-entertaining.'

Amazing!

As for 'real magic': I've seen illusions; I've yet to see REAL magic, but that's another issue.

Steve
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Sep 25, 2004 07:08AM)
Steve ... you bring up a great point. Houdini would indeed spend hours locked inside a box with the audience at the edge of their seat. It's been said that today's audience wouldn't go for that, but they seem to be going for it when David Blaine does it ... hmmm ...
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 25, 2004 08:29AM)
A tangent on that, regarding Houdini, and an added element of psychology:

I've never heard of Houdini being allegedly inside anything he was escaping from for more than an hour and twenty-some minutes (12-20 minutes being the norm for special challenges).
By the 1920s, he had abandoned this approach. The Roaring 20s constituted a world that moved at a faster pace, and Houdini knew it. The handcuffs were gone; the difficult challenges were gone. His vaudeville routine before creating his full-evening show was:

Straitjacket (fast and visual)
FAST escapes from trunks, pillories, coffins, or whatever he wanted to do that night.
The Water Torture Cell (2 minute escape)

The Shelton Pool stunt, however, was based on the element of EXTENDED TIME, like Blaine's stunts. The psychology is different. What makes it intriguing is not 'what is happening' in the active sense, but the 'implications' of what is happening.

The late Lester Lake (Marvelo) was aware of this psychology. In the 1930s he would be buried alive for 3-4 hours, entombed in a steel coffin under a 30' funeral pyre for 20-30 minutes, or submerged in a large boiling kettle for 20-30 minutes. People had to ask, "How could anyone SURVIVE such a thing?!?"

Granted, Blaine had air, and wasn't subjected to great heat (supposedly great cold, in the case of the ice), but the time was much longer; days beyond what the average physician says a person can survive without food.
There are many religious accounts and mystical legends of holy men meditating for "40 days and 40 nights" without food (or water) and having visions (whether divine in origin, or hallucinations brought on by physical distress), but I don't recall anyone actually doing such in our time and surviving (No, I don't believe Blaine's stunts were real exercises in endurance).
So, the extended time is essential to the effectiveness of the stunt (I know, "duh").
An interesting point about such stunts is that, unlike a regular show, you don't have to stand there and watch the entire routine. You can watch this type of stunt the way you watch a telethon or a marathon Guiness record attempt. You come up; gawk a little while; go off to the mall food court; come back to see 'how he's doing'; go home; have a good night's sleep; come back to see how he's doing; etc.

Since there are monitors (trustworthy or not), and the potential for SOMEBODY to be standing there watching at any moment during the duration of the stunt, you don't HAVE to be there all the time to see it progress.

Steve
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 25, 2004 09:50AM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-24 18:38, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
Well, first off, I wonder how far your denigration of "stupid stunts" goes; does it apply to all performers doing them...or just David Blaine (in which case it's not the stunt, but the man).
[/quote]

No, I think Copperfield's Fire stunt was stupid too! And I'm not all that certain about his "cutting myself in half" bit. It seems to me he's trying to catch up to Blaine instead of leading the pack in his own way.

[quote]
Harry Houdini spent an hour and a half in a sealed coffin in a swimming pool. The Amazing Randi did the same thing in the 1950s, staying down an extra hour. Years later, Randi broke a guinness record for being entombed in ice.

Do all extraordinary performances that do not involve productions, vanishes, transpositions, etc. constitute "stupid stunts?" If so, I'm afraid a large portion of the human populace are in opposition to your absolutist view.

For, if so, the feats of Houdini, The Wallendas, Petit, Karel Soucek, Evel Knievel and countless circus performers have been totally 'un-entertaining.'

Amazing!

As for 'real magic': I've seen illusions; I've yet to see REAL magic, but that's another issue.

Steve
[/quote]

By "real magic" I meant "real presdigitation" of course and not "magick" by any means.

Houdini did something original, if not very magic. It might have qualified as a "stupid stunt," but how often did he do it? As opposed to Blaine who's done four to date. Randi is known as a major Houdini buff so he'd have to try it too. Blaine also did the coffin thing and I didn't say anything about that. It just seems that all he has now is "stupid stunts."
Message: Posted by: The Mac (Sep 25, 2004 11:08AM)
Just my two cents:

I got into magic because of David Copperfield when he performed Ring to shoe. I guess most kids got into magic because of David Blaines magic was with stuff they already had - a deck of cards.

I enjoyed his first and second special. I watched them many times and I also feel the sme irritation of "hey! I know how to do that too..how come I'm not on T.v?"

David blaine has done more good than bad (I can already see many of you seething) He sparked an interest in magic - better still close up magic that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. I know a magician here in South Africa who used to do all these fancy illusions lke "doll houses" and all that. Now all he brings is a little bag with a few decks of cards and people wanna see what they saw on tv with Blaine. Also bear in mind people may think that this is how magic is today- that stage work is outta fashion.


Hey Blaine is dating hot womena and making money! the only people who are ****ed are other magicians..hmmm! think about that one

DAVID Copperfield RULES

MACGYVER
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 25, 2004 01:26PM)
Well, Mandrake, you are clearly polarized and entrenched there. I'll just throw out the shroud and move on.

Steve

Oh, but before I move on, perhaps I should qualify the point I have been trying to make, since it doesn't seem to be registering.

My issue is not with whether or not you like or dislike stunts; if you don't, that's fine with me.

My issue is with the way you worded your opinion: "stupid stunts."

The term basically says two things:

1. You don't like the stunts. (perfectly fine; no problem there)

2. People who perform such stunts, and those who like such stunts, are STUPID. (an allegation that is both irrational and patently insulting to both the performers and those who enjoy what they do)

Now I'll move on.

Steve
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 27, 2004 11:21AM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-25 17:17, Dr_Stephen_Midnight wrote:
Oh, but before I move on, perhaps I should qualify the point I have been trying to make, since it doesn't seem to be registering.

My issue is not with whether or not you like or dislike stunts; if you don't, that's fine with me.

My issue is with the way you worded your opinion: "stupid stunts."

The term basically says two things:

1. You don't like the stunts. (perfectly fine; no problem there)

2. People who perform such stunts, and those who like such stunts, are STUPID. (an allegation that is both irrational and patently insulting to both the performers and those who enjoy what they do)

Now I'll move on.

Steve
[/quote]

I never said David was stupid. He's probably the most business-wise magician since Mark Wilson (and since Mark is my "first magician of note" that's saying a lot) I don't care for his delivery, but I've never put him down for that. I think the stunts are stupid. You want to "toss a shroud" over me for that, so be it. God forbid someone have opinions that don't mirror yours!
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Sep 27, 2004 05:08PM)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Nuff said.
Message: Posted by: chris mayhew (Oct 11, 2004 12:46PM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-14 19:21, Midnight333 wrote:
I dislike David Blane for one simple fact> That he beat me to the punch. I wish I had thought to go to a magic store buy 200 dollars worth of easy to do magic and then market the hell out of it. He's not an artist, he's a business man. That's fine. don't give him all this credit for being a magician, he's not. He's some guy that found a niche then sold the f*** out of himself. By the way after all the levitations exposes that followed his premier, the balducci has become worthless. Oh by the way the other bad thing is that all you young kids should be inspired by the aformentions artists, not Blane. And to the gentleman ripping on those so called "pretty boy" magicians. Don't hate. Just because they get to be in close proximity to ultra hot girls and you are not doesn't mean one day that you cant. Don't hate the magic player, hate the magic game.
[/quote]


Is'nt that what we all did, go to some store and buy some tricks and learn them? So I guess your saying we're not true magicians either.
Message: Posted by: masterofdeception (Oct 11, 2004 05:08PM)
In my opinion, most magicians who say David Blaine isn't a skilled man, or "he doesn't deserve the fame", I think its all a part of professional jelousy... there is no doubt, there are magicians who are way better than him, and no doubt that rarely any of the tricks he does is invented by him, at the end of the day, wat matters is that who's a fan favourite... I've met a lot of non-social REALLY skilled magicians, who just cant communicate wat they're trying to do... on the other hand, we have david blaine, who, with his little bit of skill got so popular world wide... I think its all about the image infront of lay people, instead of the image infront of other magicians...

just my 2 cents

master of deception
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Oct 17, 2004 06:07PM)
Forget about marketing for 1 minute

I think David Blaine - as a performer

SUCKS.

Over hear in Australia the David Blaine specials went straight to Fox TV ( that's pay to view tv) and late at night. I do not think David Blaine has had a positive impact on magic in Australia because of the simple reason---Everyone must think magicians are boring people. We really gotta get magic out of the streets if we want to get the big bucks.
If you are marketing to the corporate events- honestly who is going to spend big bucks on a guy in black clothes with zero personality. Answer nobody.
It works on TV but most of us magicians don't work on tv. so our audience -our market is different.

Their is only 1 magician I have seen who is worse
Dan Harlan on the L&L Impromptu magic Tapes.


Oh and for all those Blaine Clones---GET A LIFE
he is a horrible magician

I am going to be the next David Welzman not David Blaine

(who is David Welzman you ask? it's me I don't copy style or lack of it I'm going to be great!!!!!!)
Message: Posted by: DamienT98 (Oct 18, 2004 08:03AM)
All this hatred is a jelousy issue.

I think Blane is a great magician and showman and he deserves to be where he is today.
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Oct 19, 2004 04:10AM)
OOps I'm sorry all

I realise that perhaps there a lots of amatures out there who don't do a lot of gigs for those people yeah Blain can do better tricks than you

But that does not make him a good magician
and to say he's a showman.

Let's get real for 1 moment- In the REAL World Yes he has good marketing skills as an entertainer a performer to people with interlect - No I'm sorry he doesn't cut it.
Imagine Blaine working some of the gigs we pros do?
I'm not talking the local school or Kids retaurants but full on Corporate Shows, Blain doing a Roving style around CEO's and GM's yeah right, I simply cannot imagine it.
Now Bill Malone- Yes I can imagine doing the show.

Lets see David Blaine Live- anyone can do multiple takes on TV and control the angles with tv viewing but real entertainers do it every day live.

Oh and his stunts are as boring as he.

David Welzman
a Real performer
Message: Posted by: CardShark (Oct 19, 2004 07:33PM)
Quote:
"Let's get real for 1 moment- In the REAL World Yes he has good marketing skills as an entertainer a performer to people with interlect - No I'm sorry he doesn't cut it.
Imagine Blaine working some of the gigs we pros do?
I'm not talking the local school or Kids retaurants but full on Corporate Shows, Blain doing a Roving style around CEO's and GM's yeah right, I simply cannot imagine it.
Now Bill Malone- Yes I can imagine doing the show."


Hrmm I do believe I should correct you here, for the purpose of correct information. Blaine does do parties, many of them and for extremly rich clientele. He isn't exactly idle in between television specials. And the going blaine rate, at which he's consistantly payed? In the tens of thousands + .

If he was indeed incompetent and unskilled and didn't appeal to people, then why would they keep giving him business?

Blaine only got payed 100,000 for the box special, it wasen't about the money, or how he did it etc, perhaps it was a statement he felt he had to express. Anyway we don't disscuss people such as hrmm I dunno Derren Brown like this, and why should we? We don't try to pull people down that don't really affect us in any way. End of story, he has an effect that compells us to respond strongly in some way.

Ending off I would have to agree with everyone who mentioned the spectator response is the premiere reason that magic tricks exist. Enough with the pretensious comments.
Message: Posted by: icentertainment (Oct 21, 2004 12:31PM)
David Blaine went straight to Fox TV,(thats pay TV)
WOW

Sorry in Australia we prefer entertainment on TV as apposed to whatever David Blaine is. Most people in Australia think he's boring.

You say he's good, how hard honestly is it to perform magic on TV over and over to get the right reaction.

And these large corporatings that hire him are hiring his celebrity status not his ability, I be he doesn't get re booked.

David Welzman
REAL ENTERTAINER
Message: Posted by: varg (Oct 23, 2004 03:13AM)
Blaine did a great job in Sweden marketing the street magic
style even if he didnīt show up with something new in
magic.
As a working pro in the various theme frome close-up,
stand-up and big illusions he really made it easy for me to sell my
closeup act.
Thanks Blaine
Message: Posted by: BananaTop (Oct 30, 2004 11:32AM)
I owe all my success to Blaine. He is what got me interested in magic. When his first special came out I liked it and by the time the last one came out I knew tons of other magicians. What blain did was good, he gave the layman a little taste of this great art and got many ppl hooked, like me!

BT
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 30, 2004 04:48PM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-30 12:32, BananaTop wrote:
I owe all my success to Blaine. He is what got me interested in magic. When his first special came out I liked it and by the time the last one came out I knew tons of other magicians. What blain did was good, he gave the layman a little taste of this great art and got many ppl hooked, like me!

BT
[/quote]

What success? Could you be more specific? Your 6 night a week magic gig? Your international fame?
Message: Posted by: dankai (Dec 7, 2008 12:37PM)
Crashfreze

Regular user
columbia, sc
114 Posts Posted: Jun 10, 2004 1:43pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the subject of Blaine has been absolutely beaten to death and back. For that I apologize in advance. I would like to offer some insight into his success and the feelings other magicians have for Mr. Blaine.

The reason magician's do not like David Blaine is they feel many many more magicians are more deserving of his success. Magicians like Michael Ammar, Bill Malone, Dai Vernon, Ed Marlo, THESE should be the household names, not David Blaine.

First of all, David is a businessman. A very good one as well. He developed a plan to successfully market his magic to ABC executives and did so. So in other words Blaine marketed his product rather than focusing on making his product better than anyone else's.

To give you an example of this I have been asked the question before: can you make a hamburger better than mcdonalds? Yes of course, anyone can. But, can you create a more efficient business plan than the McDonalds corporation? No, I don't think so. But I don't go around screaming "no fair I can make better hamburgers than mcdonalds" which essentially is what the magic community is saying about David.

So here are a bunch of magicians claiming David does not deserve his success. On the other hand David created a great business plan, marketed it to ABC so I believe he DOES deserve his success, as is often the case, strategy is more important than product.

It's no accident McDonalds is the most successful and profitable food franchise in the world. So essentially I'm saying David Blaine is the McDonalds of magicians, and I definitely don't mean that in a bad way. David did not "get lucky" and fall into his success. And magician's have a problem with that. We should be congratulating David instead of tearing him down
*********************************************************************************

Couldn't have said it better. David made magic real again.
Message: Posted by: Alexandermagic (Dec 23, 2015 02:33AM)
I'm just reading all of this and wondering why is there so little attention being paid to what Blaine's real genius is, as Pete Biro pointed out, "Turning The Camera On The Spectators". That's really about it. No other magician had ever thought to go into gang ridden streets and do a double lift before. They certainly could have, and had ABC record it. Yeah, over the years his skill level caught up to a level that no one can call him a bad magician anymore, but it's nothing any of you couldn't also do by consulting with the very best, as Blaine has. I watched the first couple of specials and was like, "he mumbles! the magic is average! There's a butt load of edits!" but I also said, "hey he's a Hot Bucket Of Spooky" "He's dope" "He's dating Fiona Apple" "Someone had to do it". Can't see Copperfield, Henning, Blackstone or S&R doing that. But today, when a DJ showing up in a track suit and playing tracks off his Ipod passes for entertainment, why not the same with magic? It's so far beyond McDonnald's, as some of you have said, it's not even funny. When people in clubs say, "that's David Blaine type stuff" when you do a double lift, you know he did something right! My only negative is that, I once heard him actually put down Copperfield on Carson Daly's show. This was in my opinion in very poor taste, and showed just who he really was.

Please! Are you kidding me? Copperfield is a genius. You can't even compare Blaine to Copperfield. That's like comparing Milli Vanilli to Mozart. Copperfield never put down Henning although he could have. He knew he could make magic slicker, cleaner and stronger and did. With action, not words. And we're talking Emmy award winning television specials, flawless touring master show, working 100 hours/week, household name for decades, more awards than any magician in history. I always wondered why Blaine did a few specials and then nothing. Left it wide open for Criss Angel. Copperfield, never let up for a second, not even to this day!
Message: Posted by: ATL (Dec 28, 2015 07:09AM)
What is this elitism and hate here. I don't see any problem with Blaine. He does his stuff and he does it well. His goals sure are probably different than a lot of people here and that's okay.

One thing that's brought up here is, "Is he good magician?" and this totally depends on how you define good magician. I have heard all kinds of definitions. I mean I have heard some people assert that a person can't be good/real magician if they don't create own tricks. etc.

Now in the sense how I use skill(meaning sleight of hand/mechanical skill), I wouldn't call Blaine very skillful, he's not exactly FISM winner, but he's solid. I'd bet he can perform all sleights he need by far cleanly enough to pass just about any lay audience.

When talking about him as magician I'm couldn't care less about what he has said about someone, if he's credited or not credited someone etc. That's relevant to him as person, but not for him as magician and has nothing to do if he's good, okay or bad magician. That's like saying Bryant is bad basketball player because he's ***. Like those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Also what the hell means deserving for his success? I think none. Just because someone is good, doesn't mean they deserve success. Success in entertainment tends to be something that appeals to masses. That doesn't always equal being good. There clearly is market for they type of character Blain represents and what he does, if there are people who can pull off that role better, then how come none of those people did it before, contacted to these channels before etc. Any of magicians brought up here I can't imagine doing Blaine's role in credible way. Trying to compare Copperfield and Blaine just sounds to me like comparing weightlifter and marathon runner, like what's the point.

Personally I don't consider Blaine as skilled magician, but solid with his skills as any professional would need to be. Depending what is the definition it might change, but under what I'd use I would say Blaine is good magician. I'd define good as EITHER being very top at one category(success, skill, creativity/publishing etc.) or having solid combination of several categories. Like even if I don't like the person or the act, as it is in Blaine's case, if a person is FISM Winner or has incredible amount of viewership/success or has published immense amount of material, then I don't know how I could with straight face say they are objectively not good in one sense or another.

Sometimes I just feel when people hear about someone's success they rather try to find negative from it than be happy for that person. Blaine has his style, it works for him and he's able to achieve things with it, see no problem in that. I find it stupid to point out that maybe he can't do this type of thing or that type of show. So what? There's nothing wrong focusing on one style only, if that style is television magic and you can make it work and sell it, so be it. I see that not much different from many card manipulators for example who only do that pretty much or as example from basketball as pure shooters. Like some of these arguments are like saying "That shooter can't dunk therefore he sucks.", like that would make any sense. If you can find a niche, do only that and get hired, then your demonstrably don't suck.
Message: Posted by: TheRealMagicMike (Dec 28, 2015 08:52PM)
Once we become a "professional magician" (accepting money for gigs at any level) we are essentially in the marketing business. This holds true for any real business. David Blaine apparently understood this and out-marketed other, more talented magicians. To me, it's really as simple as that. I've never been a fan of his, and even complained a bit when I saw him on TV doing card tricks right out of Michael Ammar's "Easy to Master Card Miracles"... but the truth is, he did what every good business person needs to do: market, market, market.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicalMan (Dec 31, 2015 06:40PM)
First of all who said Magicians hate David Blaine ? From what I've seen Magicians hate Criss Angel not David Blaine for obvious reasons.....
Michael Ammar, Bill Malone, etc.. would've been successful but I don't think like Blaine. His STUNTS got worldwide attention which they probably wouldn't have done. Not to mention his mysterious persona that I believe is the BEST persona I've ever seen on a Magician before. Blaine revolutionized magic only like Copperfield has. He has made Magic to mainstream and got international attention for it not to mention the respect and admiration for Magicians and the higher value of cash spent on Magicians per performance !
Message: Posted by: Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse (Feb 7, 2016 01:52AM)
I think Blaine is a very talented magician. I just don't like how he treats his spectators sometimes
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Feb 20, 2016 01:07AM)
I liked Blaine's performing style from the first time I saw him on TV, because he didn't seem to fit any stereotype of a traditional magician character. He brought an earnestness to his performances, and treated the magic as if it really was something special and worthy of quiet respect, rather than a cabaret piece to be dressed up with witty banter.

When Nirvana became popular in the early 90's, some attributed their success to a grit of authenticity that was a refreshing break from the overproduced pap of late 80's radio rock. At that time, there were any number of big-haired guitar slingers way more technically adept than Kurt Cobain, but somehow his simple songs and rudimentary playing seemed real. I think Blaine was successful for similar reasons.
Message: Posted by: danielvanm (Mar 1, 2016 06:21PM)
I agree with maxfieldmagic here.. I loved to see Blaine perform and still do.. His style is awesome and he gets great reactions from people with simple tricks, better reactions than most magicians get.. And I certainly don't think he treats his spectators wrong, people like his mysterious way of performing.. Nowadays his way of acting is different, it's less mysterious looking and I think more normal, I like that as well. And I really don't understand the people who claim he's just a business man and not a magician, he's definitely a magician and a good one. He knows a lot about the history as well and he knows how to show "miracles" instead of just magic tricks.
Message: Posted by: HenryleTregetour (Jan 31, 2017 04:21PM)
I have read through all these posts and the one thing that everyone has missed is this:

Blaine is a "Hip Hop" magician, and "urban" performer. His personality and performance are things of the "street" and his audience consists of people to whom "Hip Hop" has appeal (of course I don't mean this is exclusively his audience).

He is a man of this time, unlike most magicians (at least in America) who are overwhelmingly white and "square" (no criticism meant here--I am white and very "square").

Just like Rock and Roll has been superceded by Rap, so "Street Magic" (meaning what Blaine does) has superceded the magic of pre-1990. Essentially, he is a man of the current times, and that is why he is so popular.

HLT
Message: Posted by: ThSecret (Jan 31, 2017 08:57PM)
There is a big difference between being an Magician and Being and Entertainer. Blaine has answer the question what are you? With the Answer A showman.

Definitions as follow;
__________
Showman:
noun
a person who produces or presents shows as a profession, especially the proprietor, manager, or MC of a circus, fair, or other variety show.

Entertainer:
noun
a person, such as a singer, dancer, or comedian, whose job is to entertain others.

Magician
noun
a person with magical powers.
a conjuror.
__________

A showman is an entertainer. Blaine is a showman. He is an entertainer who performs magic and feats of endurance. I do not believe anyone here is a magician as per the first definition, but the latter is somewhat possible. One can be a conjuror, but not a magician - "A person with magical powers".
(^That is looking at it from a literal perspective. One can also argue you are a magician because you perform magic tricks or illusions.)

I think it is crazy that people bash other successful people. We are all people. You hate because, you are jealous? angry? insecure? There is never really a good reason. You would be crazy not to respect the individual's success and ask yourself what you can learn from them, and why it is they have made it where they are. Even if you hate the person (as you are entitled to your own opinion), if they are successful you can always learn something from them. So why no do so instead of bashing them.

Blaine much like Copperfield, and Penn And Teller are entertainers who practice magic. For the purpose of this thread, David Blaine does not just practice magic in the traditional sense of cardistry and illusions. He does stunts as well as other sideshow acts. He does do card magic as well and I think he does a darn good job with the effects he does. But again I feel like his performance is what really sells the effect.

[Side Note:]
Another great example of this, and you would know this very well if you watch wrestling in the 90's.... The WWF [World Wrestlin g Federation) (now WWE [World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT]) and WCW [World Championship Wrestling] What happened you ask? Well today, the Billionaire Mr McMahon -the chairman of WWE, had then, bought out his competition.

How and why? The WWF was an Entertainment company that had a wrestling show, and the WCW was a Wrestling company that was trying to provide an entertainment show. In the long run, the entertainment company was thriving and the wrestling company was falling.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Mar 2, 2017 09:21AM)
I think that the fundamental problem that many Magicians have with David Blaine is that he is a MUCH better Magician than they are!
Message: Posted by: ScottMN (Mar 6, 2017 06:57PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2017, Rainboguy wrote:
I think that the fundamental problem that many Magicians have with David Blaine is that he is a MUCH better Magician than they are! [/quote]

Absolutely true! His close up magic is fantastic - he is a skilled and talented performer. That said, I think many are also upset with the constant camera edits and cuts (for effects that cannot ever be done for a live audience in the way they appear to be presented for TV, etc)... I find that irritating.
Message: Posted by: Rainboguy (Mar 14, 2017 09:12AM)
TV is it's own medium, relying on it's own unique methodology.

Editing is a HUGE part of recorded Television, and is absolutely necessary. Having said that, with or without editing, Mr. Blaine could still perform his close-up, sleight of hand illusions perfectly. Chris Angel could NOT do this, as his whole "TV Persona" revolves around, let's say, camera "skullduggery."

I say this to point out the differences between two well-known current Magicians who are widely seen on Television.

What ISN'T irritating about Magic on TV is that it promotes the art of Magic to huge audiences all over the World and that's a good thing for those of us who make a buck or two performing Magic!
Message: Posted by: NinoL (Jun 27, 2017 11:13AM)
This is an old thread, but I like the OP's point and completely agree. David Blaine got me into magic as a teenager because all the legends didn't do TV that I had access to. I saw the entertainer, not the innovator. But that's not a bad thing.

I listen to a lot of punk rock but I can't stand the 'founding' bands because they don't have the same message or style as those who took the ball and ran with it. In this way, Blaine has taken something and made it cool and fashionable at a time when it wasn't particularly to most people.

However to use another metaphor I'll paraphrase (poorly, from memory) comic book artist James O'Barr, who learnt how to draw from studying sculpture and the human form. He said 'I hate modern comic book artists who are trying to recreate what they saw their idols do. Those older guys learnt to draw properly. The new guys are copying something that's already a caricature, so it's essentially a copy of a copy. Each time it becomes further removed from reality and the further removed it gets the worse it becomes.'

Come to think of it, that could also have been Bill Watterson or John Kricfalusi. Ah well, it's a good point. Don't try and imitate, take the source material and make it your own. Blaine did this, to be fair. But to copy someone like Blaine is to ask for trouble.
Message: Posted by: ctom (Jul 6, 2017 05:55PM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2004, Young Freak wrote:

!11I also might add David Blain IS AN ACTOR he admits so in his first book(which was kind of a waste)

Brett [/quote]


There are only actors playing the role of a magician... or something along those lines
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Jan 13, 2018 07:09PM)
Hay, get over it. You didn't get the job.
Message: Posted by: DrVG (Feb 2, 2018 10:47PM)
Different times, different customs. Any art can derive to a multitude of shapes. Blaine is an example of a successful commercialization of a specific type of art through a modern media.
He probably disgusted some, but also inspired many.
tastes and colors..
Message: Posted by: magicianbrady (Aug 14, 2018 01:21PM)
Blaine made magic cool. Magic was treated as something silly and to be shown at kids birthday parties. But because of Blaine's mysterious persona and patter-less direct magic, magic was seen in a new way and inspired millions to take up the art form (me included).
Message: Posted by: debjit (Aug 14, 2018 01:23PM)
Didn't know magicians even had a problem with David Blaine. He was an original character performing magic on the streets like it hadn't been done before. He deserved all the fame and success he got.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Aug 14, 2018 11:03PM)
A little late to the mix but hopefully some interesting notes to ass to the thread.

[quote]On Dec 23, 2015, Alexandermagic wrote:
I'm just reading all of this and wondering why is there so little attention being paid to what Blaine's real genius is, as Pete Biro pointed out, "Turning The Camera On The Spectators". That's really about it. No other magician had ever thought to go into gang ridden streets and do a double lift before. They certainly could have, and had ABC record it. [/quote]

You're close but as is the case with many successful magicians it is a combination of timing, talent and luck. Yes, he sold the first special and I will say that he is VERY charismatic in his own way but his early magical skills were severely lacking. Yes, it was brilliant to turn the cameras on the spectator's reactions. The reason behind it is that he flashed so much, it was hard to find a usable close up of him doing the effect so the editors did the only thing they knew... audience cut away.

I should explain that in shooting a show like this, you always try and get cut-aways and audience reaction shots for editing purposes as it gives you a very easy buffer to cover bad edits. You might be able to find a match point to jump to a shot from another performance but the out points will seldom match as it was taken at two separate times. How do you cover it? Cut the audio to match then lay a reaction shot over it to cover the out point.

With his special they found themselves having to to that more and more and as they saw how it was playing, the production team began to use it as a style of shooting him. The less they saw of him and the more they got of the reactions, the better everyone looked.

Also, in his initial specials, he utilized... let's just say many "production tricks" to accomplish certain effects which I personally don't really respect.

To be fair, as he has grown, his magical skills have improved and I think he has grown into a very good magician where his skills match his charisma. He has created and defined his own style and as a result, we have thousands of YouTube "Street Magicians" copying him for better or for worse.

My main complaint in his early years was that he was fine in the restrictive television world but couldn't carry a live show. He has since proven that he can with a very successful live show that has a lot of very unique qualities to it. It took him a while to get there but he has definitely carved out his own place in Magic History.
Message: Posted by: Peter Morrissey (Aug 24, 2018 04:41PM)
I think Blaine is really good. I see people saying "ah he's ok,nothing special." Isn't he? Seems pretty slick to me. Has his character down to a T. Cut his teeth doing functions etc

He certainly gave magic a fresh feel. Fair play to him in my opinion
Message: Posted by: servant (Aug 27, 2018 10:24AM)
[quote]On Aug 24, 2018, Peter Morrissey wrote:
Seems pretty slick to me. Has his character down to a T. [/quote]

I've always wondered what his real personality is like (or was like), outside of his performances.
Message: Posted by: Peter Morrissey (Aug 29, 2018 05:19PM)
I reckon he would be just as he seems. Laid back and some what quite. Obviously I have no idea but I can't imagine him being a fast moving motor mouth
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Sep 2, 2018 03:01AM)
I had a flight with him... just as dry and introverted as you might expect. It's not a character, that's just who he is.
Message: Posted by: servant (Sep 4, 2018 10:21AM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2018, Ray Pierce wrote:
I had a flight with him... just as dry and introverted as you might expect. It's not a character, that's just who he is. [/quote]

I'm quite pleased to hear that. Did you get to talk to him for very long?
Message: Posted by: Peter Morrissey (Sep 5, 2018 04:30PM)
Just bumping this as interested to hear from ray. Glad my suspicions confirmed.
Message: Posted by: bosami (Sep 12, 2018 12:46PM)
[quote]On Jun 13, 2004, Ron Giesecke wrote:
David Blaine did for magic what Yngwie Malmsteen did for guitar playing in the 1980's. [/quote]

Greatest analogy ever!
Message: Posted by: Doctor Zolar (Nov 4, 2018 04:16PM)
David Blaine gets good reactions . . because . . . he does the same trick(s) with LOTS of people.
They edit and re-edit and choose the best of the best tricks that had GREAT REACTIONS.
Some tricks were never shown on the Specials / TV.
Some did not have good REACTIONS.
Those were left out.

Sooooo, you take the Best of the Best out of 50 tricks / 50 difference audiences-groups of people,
and show the 6 or 7 tricks with the best reactions.
TV Special in the can.
That's what YOU SEE. The final product.

Unless WE are filming for a TV Special we can not get away with Not-So-Good-Reactions, time after time,
and then only let others only see the Best of the Best that we do.
WE . . do it LIVE. And it is MUCH harder to do a continuous show LIVE and be GREAT all the time.

If you have . . say . . $50,000-$100,000 bucks, you can GET 2 or 3 camera persons and film 50 of your effects, to small groups of people, and then choose 6 or 10 of the Best of the Best and present the edited film for a TV Special.
Some network would run that.
Message: Posted by: kebmo3108 (Nov 22, 2018 04:49AM)
A very interesting thread.

Even though I really donīt like his low energy performance style and his TV appearences with all the celebrieties over reacting, I have to agree with many others: of course he deserves his success. Itīs all about supply and demand. If there are enough people watching his stuff, he must be right. And he brought attention to the Market/Industrie which is good for everyone within this industry: creators, magicians, wholesalers, magicshops, customers and Hobby magicicans (like me). Bestselling does not always mean it is the best, most artistic thing. Same in music or in the filmindustry.
Message: Posted by: magicianbrady (Mar 16, 2019 08:14PM)
Unpopular opinion: Criss Angel made magic more popular than David Blaine