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Topic: Question on performing
Message: Posted by: xandermagic (Nov 22, 2020 04:05PM)
I do not quite know if this is the right place to ask this question?

I have noticed that I have some effects that I would like to perform but which I strangely do not use in my routine if I feel they have been too overexposed or revealed too much through the internet etc.

I often think that if I perform for an audience that may already know the secret behind the illusion then the entertainment value decreases? And the thought alone prevents me from doing some of the things that I really want?

What are your thoughts on that?

Best wishes

Xander
Message: Posted by: charlie_d (Nov 23, 2020 12:00AM)
Try it. You might be surprised. Almost all of the secrets are out there, if you look, but most people - quite rightly - don't bother looking.

Also, with the proper routine and a little variation, many effects with an "obvious" or "exposed" secret become impossible again. All those magic set tricks that everyone knows? Turns out a real magician uses rings that really are solid. A real magician really does shuffle the deck. Those billiard balls really are solid. You really did have a free choice of card.

Finally, if you're really worried about it, you could find a version of the effect with a different method. Most of the classics have many different methods, which are different to the most exposed versions.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Nov 23, 2020 04:59AM)
A very old slogan of conjuring is "Undeceive in order to mystify."

By performing effect most spectators' "think they know method" can be more entertaining than those with new astonishment.
They become relaxed with less fear and risk - and thereby participate in the orchestration of strong magic later on.

Some performers like McBride start off by teaching the audience a trick. Other like to have "I figured it out" effect in the middle.

Framing and artistry can make a simple effect "more than magical" and can allow for "garden path" false expectations."

The point is that one must never reject an effect for fear the audience may know or guess method.
Ask instead, "How do I use that knowledge to my advantage?"

For example, In a long routine I have a spectator help cut a rope into three pieces. They wind up of different lengths (my fault - never blame them)
I stretch them to be the same length and can hear snickers and see "elbow poking" from those "in the know" from this overdone classic.

But then, I tie the ropes into loops and performing linking ropes with all equal pieces handled by spectators.

I feel the final effect is more powerful because of they "set themselves up" to be mystified.
Message: Posted by: xandermagic (Nov 23, 2020 11:46AM)
Thanks Charlie_d and funsway. I Guess I must get out of my own head and remember why I'm doing it in the first place 1. Because I love magic and the wonderment it can create and 2. More important Share that wonderment with people and entertain and giving people a good time.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 23, 2020 04:33PM)
I agree with some of the advice offered above. If what you are thinking would be how other magicians think, no one would be performing at all unless they created entirely original material.

One of the best lessons a magician can learn is that it is not about the method, secret, or execution, but rather the unique presentation used to perform the trick. Premise, setup, story, entertainment value, timing, drama, suspense, comedy, and so much more are what will make the trick successful. Once you learn the secret, this is where you should shift your focus to make your presentation all your own to fit with you, your persona, theme, and other things specific to you.
Message: Posted by: xandermagic (Nov 24, 2020 06:13AM)
Thank you Mindpro, wise words.

It was not so much other magicians, but more when performing for the layman.

I just thought that some of the wonder can be lost if those you perform for have an idea of the secret especially in such an amazing trick as the disappearing silk scarf?


Xander
Message: Posted by: Mr Uku (Nov 24, 2020 02:51PM)
I bought a set of linking rings after watching Messado and the gentleman who did the instructional video for TCC, who's name I can't remember.
I know how the linking rings are done. I'm quite sure everyone does. But after watching performances from a few people like the above mentioned, who know how to perform the rings well, I started to doubt myself and wonder if I really did know how this trick was done.
This made me realise that a good trick is good because of the performance and not just because of the secret.

I think this attitude can also help with modern audiences seeing magic as a puzzle to be solved rather than a piece of entertainment that they can simply enjoy.
Mind you, I'm no expert.
Message: Posted by: thegreatscungilli (Dec 8, 2020 12:44PM)
If you get a chance look at a few videos of Pop Haydn doing some of his routines...many are the "old classics" that have been around forever...color changing knives, multiplying bottles, chink a chink, linking rings, coins across etc.

Pop is really good at "revealing" a secret about the effect he is doing...the audience thinks they know how it works or will work but Pop has great misdirection, a great stage presence and timing...the audience never REALLY know how he does it...I have picked up many tips just watching him do his routines.

I agree with the comment that most people in your audiences are not spending their time looking up how tricks work, of course there will always be the people who want to show "they are in the know" and will try to reveal the secret..but most people just want to be entertained and have some fun.
Message: Posted by: charlie_d (Dec 8, 2020 02:05PM)
The thing that's so great about Pop's performances is that it doesn't matter if you know the secret or not. Pop is such a character that you just get swept along. It doesn't matter if you think you know how it's done, because Pop will probably fool you anyhow, but even if you're 100% certain on the workings, the performance, interplay with the volunteers and sheer charm of it all pretty much makes the secrets irrelevant. I mean, the secrets still need to be respected, but the audience's mind is just not on the secret; we're too busy being entertained :)

So, here's some of the performances we're talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-C10zSiz9o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jpdgmOm5o0
Message: Posted by: copperct (Dec 10, 2020 08:26AM)
As I've just been getting started, I've noticed that if I can put together a different patter from what has been seen online, or weave (no matter how short of a story it is) a new narrative, the same trick as my friends have seen online can be performed without them even realizing it is the same trick. I've noticed that as I perform these types of tricks, I am often the only one concerned with the method. Those watching are usually much less concerned with the method (and it may be one they are already aware of from watching online videos) as they are the effect of the trick as it relates to my patter.

I've also noticed that no matter how simple the trick, often if I take one-off tricks from books I own, those will be enough to completely fool my friends as I'm the only one taking the time to read the classics.
Message: Posted by: ParkinT (Dec 10, 2020 10:28AM)
You made some very insightful observations.
These are things that normally are realized after years of experience. I may venture to say some of us NEVER make these realizations!
[quote]On Dec 10, 2020, copperct wrote:
As I've just been getting started, I've noticed that if I can put together a different patter from what has been seen online, or weave (no matter how short of a story it is) a new narrative, the same trick as my friends have seen online can be performed without them even realizing it is the same trick. I've noticed that as I perform these types of tricks, I am often the only one concerned with the method. Those watching are usually much less concerned with the method (and it may be one they are already aware of from watching online videos) as they are the effect of the trick as it relates to my patter.

I've also noticed that no matter how simple the trick, often if I take one-off tricks from books I own, those will be enough to completely fool my friends as I'm the only one taking the time to read the classics. [/quote]