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Topic: Erudite Magic: Getting Started with MemDeck Work
Message: Posted by: Dr. JK (Dec 20, 2020 07:31AM)
Have you ever thought about getting into memorized deck work but either been too intimidated or lost to get started?😬 I was where you were once.😐

In today's video, I've broken down the resources available to you, the main stacks out there, and even some freebies to get you started❗️💥 I promise, it's not nearly as hard as you think...you just have to *start* - I'm sure many others can confirm that beginning the journey is actually the hardest part!

What stack are you considering, and what is holding you back from taking action?🤔 I know in this forum, many are already using stacks, so what other advice can you offer someone contemplating getting started?

https://youtu.be/lsOTcy7Led0
[youtube]lsOTcy7Led0[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Haruspex (Jan 4, 2021 09:47AM)
Good summery,

It seems that most people spend way to much time on deciding what stack to use, as if you are only allowed to learn one.
I would say just pick one and learn it, if after using it for a while you don't like it, learn another one.

There also seems to be some sort of a paradox:
On the one side, many people spend a long time choosing and looking for build-in effects before they start learning.
On the other side if you ask people who use a memdeck for their favorite effects with it, often they will name effects that can be done with any memdeck.

As you mention it takes, a very short time to learn one.
After that, it took about a week or 2 of playing around with it to get fluent/confident with it.

If you know a memory system like the one taught in The Memory Arts ( I only have the softcover book A), or other books on mnemonics, like Harry Lorayne's , it should only take you a few minutes to memorize a new order/stack. Once you have it memorized you can start to play with it.
Message: Posted by: Seluj (Jan 5, 2021 02:53AM)
[quote]On Jan 4, 2021, Haruspex wrote:
It seems that most people spend way to much time on deciding what stack to use, as if you are only allowed to learn one.
I would say just pick one and learn it, if after using it for a while you don't like it, learn another one.
[/quote]

I learned my first stack 10 years ago, and then I changed for another one, 5 years ago, more convenient. But since then, I have still some confusions - and if I don't practice every week, that first stack I don't use anymore comes back in my memory....
If you got any suggestions, I am all ears :)
Message: Posted by: Haruspex (Jan 5, 2021 04:39AM)
[quote]On Jan 5, 2021, Seluj wrote:
[quote]On Jan 4, 2021, Haruspex wrote:
It seems that most people spend way to much time on deciding what stack to use, as if you are only allowed to learn one.
I would say just pick one and learn it, if after using it for a while you don't like it, learn another one.
[/quote]

I learned my first stack 10 years ago, and then I changed for another one, 5 years ago, more convenient. But since then, I have still some confusions - and if I don't practice every week, that first stack I don't use anymore comes back in my memory....
If you got any suggestions, I am all ears :) [/quote]



It depends on how you chose to memorise your stack. If you used rote memory ( i.e learning by repetition) its easy to forget or confuse things if you don't practice it for a while, this is because you have learned the information but you haven't learned a way to access it.


You will be much better off using a memory system and there are many options:

If you look at the classic works of Harry Lorayne ( I thinks its in his "How To Develop A Super Power Memory" book), you will find that for playing cards, he teaches a peg system based on the major system to link the card to the position.

"The Memory Arts" by Trustman uses a visual system based more closely to the Loci method, placing images (representing the card) along viewpoints (representing the position) on an imaginary journey.

When learning different stacks I would recommend, using systems that differ enough amongst each other so you will not mix them up.
By using a memory system it will be much easier to remember the stack. you will still need to practice it but you can literally do that in 1 or 2 minutes by going over the system in your head.

I find that even if you don't use a system for a few months you will still know it.

For instance: I memorized a list of 100 items 9 months ago and did not do anything with it until 2 weeks ago, but I still could recall it. I just lost some of the speed I had when I had just memorized it.
Message: Posted by: michaelpenkul (Jan 5, 2021 04:57PM)
I'm sure most know at this point, but if you're concerned that you don't have the best memory for actually learning a mem stack, Ellusionist released the Stack Watch last year by Pete Turner, which has the popular Juan Tamariz Mnemonica stack on the bezel - it turns and lines up with the minutes to quickly do the math on what card is at what position as the deck is being cut. Handy idea to help you when you're first learning the stack, if you're not good at math, or even in those moments where you draw a blank in performance.
Message: Posted by: Seluj (Jan 6, 2021 01:49PM)
[quote]On Jan 5, 2021, michaelpenkul wrote:
I'm sure most know at this point, but if you're concerned that you don't have the best memory for actually learning a mem stack, Ellusionist released the Stack Watch last year by Pete Turner, which has the popular Juan Tamariz Mnemonica stack on the bezel - it turns and lines up with the minutes to quickly do the math on what card is at what position as the deck is being cut. Handy idea to help you when you're first learning the stack, if you're not good at math, or even in those moments where you draw a blank in performance. [/quote]

Hi Michael, thanks :)
I saw that a few months ago, but frankly I am not in love with Ellusionist's idea. In fact, I don't have any problem with my Mnemonica when I use it regularly. My concern is more about long-term memory after a break, or how to dissociate two stacks.
Message: Posted by: Seluj (Jan 6, 2021 01:56PM)
[quote]On Jan 5, 2021, Haruspex wrote:

It depends on how you chose to memorise your stack. If you used rote memory ( i.e learning by repetition) its easy to forget or confuse things if you don't practice it for a while, this is because you have learned the information but you haven't learned a way to access it.


You will be much better off using a memory system and there are many options:
[/quote]

Thanks Haruspex, I think you're right. I learned both of the stacks by repetition, because the first advice is generally the opposite : I was always told that the better way is to learn every card/number by heart, without any system. It worked fine for the first stack. For more than one stack, a memory system seems necessary.
I am going to check all these references !
Message: Posted by: michaelpenkul (Jan 6, 2021 09:57PM)
Seluj, I definitely struggle with getting back into it after a break too; one way I try to combat that is by always having a stacked deck somewhere on my desk, and periodically just having my Google Home name a random card and number, to which I'll practice doing an ACAAN or card to wallet. But as a regular mnemonica user, the Stack Watch has actually still helped me a lot, primarily with Asi Wind's ACAAN - I'm terrible at math on the spot, so the watch has helped a lot with that, even to just double check that I did my math right.
Message: Posted by: Seluj (Jan 7, 2021 03:49AM)
Haha, love the Google Home idea !
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Jan 7, 2021 01:17PM)
[quote]On Jan 5, 2021, michaelpenkul wrote:
I'm sure most know at this point, but if you're concerned that you don't have the best memory for actually learning a mem stack, Ellusionist released the Stack Watch last year by Pete Turner, which has the popular Juan Tamariz Mnemonica stack on the bezel - it turns and lines up with the minutes to quickly do the math on what card is at what position as the deck is being cut. Handy idea to help you when you're first learning the stack, if you're not good at math, or even in those moments where you draw a blank in performance. [/quote]
You must be joking.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jan 10, 2021 08:44PM)
A point of clarification -
You do not need to be "good at math" to learn a stack. That's like saying you need to be good at math to remember your address, or your friends' addresses. You need a way to jog your memory when you first start to learn (which is what memory systems provide); then over time, through regular use, you end up just knowing.

You do need to do some mental maths to work out (say) how many cards to shift to move a named card from one position to another. Or to know a card's position from the face instead of the top of the deck. (53 minus stack-number). But this is a different matter - not to be confused with learning a stack.

Having said that, I am sure the watch is a useful tool. Also I believe some people print off crib sheets and stick them on the back of card cases or other places. No harm having backup if you want it.
Message: Posted by: michaelpenkul (Jan 11, 2021 12:47AM)
Yes, you're absolutely right; in my post, I was referring specifically to doing the ACAAN, but outside of that the math isn't really important. In my opinion, the watch is best as an extra aid, rather than something to rely on, similar to the crib sheets you mentioned. It won't make you good at the stack, only memorization and practice will do that, but it's a deceptive reference tool if used properly. That being said, I would really only recommend it if you want to do effects that require shifting the card positions around, such as the ACAAN.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jan 11, 2021 08:20AM)
If you need an extra crib or aid, I would recommend a deck of Phoenix cards. They all contain an innocent advertising card which is really a crib for both Tamariz and Aronson stacks. If you're bold you can use it openly, if not, you can easily hide it.
Message: Posted by: Alan M (Jan 11, 2021 03:52PM)
For anyone that uses the Redford stack, Patrick sells a pdf containing a crib that you can attach to the bottom of your card case or stick under the cellophane.
Message: Posted by: mlippo (Jan 12, 2021 08:44AM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2021, Waterloophai wrote:

You must be joking. [/quote]


I'm afraid he's not ... :-(