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Topic: Parlor show bookings, advice wanted
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 9, 2021 01:13PM)
I don't perform professionally much anymore (and only did part-time). I want to get back into it, but I'm looking for advice about performing more private show events. I've done schools, libraries, private parties and so on.

It's the small private parties (perhaps in their home, for a 50th, or a small private room, etc.) that I want to start doing if I can find interest. That's part of my question. Years ago I had a few shows for "wealthier" crowds at their homes where I entertained in their living room. It went over very well, but I never had more than that. Is this a feasible market I can approach?

I'm not looking for full-time work, just something where I can perform more intimately and possibly be seated or stand-up. (I'd have to re-asses my set list for either.) I'm looking for any help with regards to, is this a market that is fairly reachable? With the other shows, I mailed out and relied on repeats and referrals. Essentially, I'm starting over from scratch.

Are there experienced folks who have written about this?

I'm looking for shortcuts, tips and experience in planning, good show lengths, (relative) pricing, finding work (do I go with an agent?) and anything I may be missing. This is a tall order, but I'm relatively smart and can figure thing out. I'm experienced in performing, entertaining and working shows.

I just want to change what I used to do to more of what I'd like to do. If that's possible. The good thing is this would be to supplement my main income, not replace it, so a few shows a year is just fine. More is icing on the cake. I'd make a site dedicated to my agenda and brand things as such to streamline it. If there's a chance to book work at all, unconventionally vs "we had this guy at our corporate event, we should have him for Sarah's party..." blah blah blah.

Thoughts? Resources?
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 9, 2021 03:55PM)
Start with a good website that clearly explains what you do, with pro quality photo and video, using good search engine optimization (SEO). Get your free listing on Google Local (or whatever they call it now) and place lots of good info and photos in that also. Some people do well with social media also, though I don't do much with that. Find local agents. Maybe try a free or paid listing on Gigsalad and/or thebash.com. A lot of people hate those gigsalad sites, I had good luck, but now I just do a free listing on salad. Some people say you just get cheapo's and price shoppers on those sites, but that hasn't been my experience, though I'm not expensive anyway. Other magicians may send people your way when they aren't available, if they feel like you will do the same for them.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 10, 2021 10:38AM)
The crowd you are looking for doesn't use Google to get entertainers. SEO is almost pointless. They do not go to Gigsalad and free listings won't help a bit.

Shortcuts don't exist for this market. Reputation is what sells it and without one it is not something you can tap into regularly. It will take years to even develop a foothold. I will tell you that schools and libraries are not going to help book this stuff.

It is often good to hear what won't help before setting out doing what you think will help. If you only want a few shows a year you are in the right track.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 10, 2021 03:35PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote:
Shortcuts don't exist for this market. [/quote]

In reality, this is not even a market. I work with a student who we have worked hard for him to dominate the private in-home party scene in his area and it wasn't easy because it really isn't a market and unless you are performing regularly to keep the word of mouth going, getting greater exposure, and generating referrals and gaining continuous momentum, it will be quite hard for you to get any more than only an occasional interest or lucky booking. Especially if you are positioning yourself as a closeup magician.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 10, 2021 04:13PM)
Also your website isn't doing you any favors either towards this.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 10, 2021 05:24PM)
Kinda what I thought, guys. Thank you for all your thoughts.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 12, 2021 08:36AM)
I disagree with the idea that people don't use Google and Gigsalad type sites for entertainers, that is not correct. They use Google for everything, doctors, mechanics, you name it. That incudes corporate stuff and house parties. People also ask around, do you know a good magician, good dentist, but Google and good reviews online are very important, plus even if someone reccomends you they will often look at your website, and reviews online, and still may search around for other magicians anyway. And if the magician that someone reccomends isn't available or whatever, then they are back to square one. And the magician for home parties thing for adults is a market, not a big one, but when I was an agent, I booked magicians on a regular basis for home parties (adult bdays, retirements, etc). And of course if you want to do kids parties, well, there is a ton of that available.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Jul 12, 2021 09:41AM)
Here is Australia, Google is the main way that people search for entertainment in all forms. Quite often I'm told that I was searching in Google and you came up first, so I called you.
Of course after being in the same market for 16 years now, I've also got good word of mouth, and many repeat bookers. Google is just one of the ways that brings in shows, but as many others here much smarter than me knows there are other things at play. I should clarify that I'm predominately a kids birthday party performer, schools show performer, childcare centre performer and not a corporate, wedding, high end event entertainer.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 09:44AM)
The people he is specifically looking for absolutely do not use Google or Gigsalad to find entertainers.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 12, 2021 10:10AM)
Danny, I really wonder how you came to that conclusion, but I assure you, in the US that is not the case. I don't mean people don't ask for referals or see a magician somewhere and get his card, but there is a lot of well paying work that will come from Google/website/local google listing, and other internet sources. That's how things work nowadays. I don't have stats, but my guess is the amount of adult house party gigs booked via internet searches far outweighs referals, etc - and they aren't all just cheapos looking for a deal. In any case, a good website costs roughly 10 or 20 a month, and you can build it yourself and do your own SEO and local free Google listing, and gigsalad will give you a free listing. Most people should hire a good web guy to build their site, but you can make a good one yourself. There are other free online sites that can get you occasional leads also. Social media may work well also, though I haven't done much with that so I can't speak to that really.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 11:04AM)
I have worked ONLY in this market for the past 25 years. How did YOU come to YOUR conclusion exactly?

He is talking about a different level of folks than use Gigsalad.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 12, 2021 11:25AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2021, danfreed wrote:
And the magician for home parties thing for adults is a market, not a big one, but when I was an agent, I booked magicians on a regular basis for home parties (adult bdays, retirements, etc). [/quote]

Sorry Dan, respectfully I disagree with you. A performance market is defined by if it has a legitimate group, association, or specified resources or operatives that governs, represents or serves the market. The school market has such associations and governing groups, as does the college market, fair market, festival market, theater market, cruise industry, corporate market, trade show market, and so on. Home parties do not.

As an agent and agency owner, yes, we do book home party events. As I mentioned above one of my coaching clients has actually positioned himself serving this specialty area which was a bit difficult again, because it is not really a market with such market support.

Also, it is worth noting that home parties are part of the consumer market (vs. professional market) which means most seeking such entertainment use general or consumer-level mindsets, mentalities, and (uneducated) approaches to seeking vendors including entertainment. This would be why they may turn to Google or GM/GS as well, which primarily serves and is designed for consumer market business.

Google today is just what the Yellow Pages used to be. It is the layman's quick and general point of reference. These are not professional or even recurring planners, and simply are going to the most generic and common (again uneducated) way of seeking or shopping. This is why many also shop based on price as it this the general layman's way of shopping, just as they would for tires, appliances, or towels.

Other performance specialty areas that are not truly markets include campgrounds, churches, retirements, anniversaries, block parties, scouts, funerals, grocery store openings, car shows, and so on. Yes, they can be events for bookings but by industry standards they are not true performance markets.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 12, 2021 11:36AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2021, danfreed wrote:
...there is a lot of well paying work that will come from Google/website/local google listing, and other internet sources. That's how things work nowadays. [/quote]

This is ONE WAY things can be done these days. It is very short-sided to think "this is how business is done these days." It's not. Perhaps for you and maybe the consumer markets you serve or work, but there are also many of us who do not and would never use such means as they are not prudent to the performance markets which we serve.

I personally have worked 42-43 weeks a year on the road each year for decades now and do not use or rely on Google, website SEO, and/or GM or GS at all. It does not align with my performance markets or business model.

The problem I see over and over again is the business approach many use when beginning in magic (what I call the Default Business Model) they never move on or advance from, which is why they remain stuck in the consumer-level, layman's mentalities and feel they can only relay on Google, SEO, websites, etc.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 12, 2021 11:54AM)
When I had an entertainment agency for 10 years (ending in 2005), I got most of my initial business from yellow pages ads and then later also internet. I was booking a ton of corporate work for most of the biggest corporations and organizations in town, sometimes thousands of dollars at a time. They booked magicians, jugglers, moonbounces, bands, you name it, sometimes 10 or 15 people for 1 event. Then they tended to keep booking through me after that. My competitors also did the same type of thing and got the same type of clients, in addtion to regular private clients booking birtydays and weddings, etc. They were HR people more often than not at the big and medium size companies and organizations (the zoo, local govt, etc). Some markets are very specialized and take a very specialized approach to getting the work, like the fair circuit for example.
However, Nathan asked about doing house parties. Some people get most of their work doing repeat and referal stuff, that's great, it takes effort to maintain that and not everyone can pull that off anyway. And getting most work via repeat and referal doesn't mean you are getting enough work. Realisticaly, most people get a lot of their (non-highly specialized) work from new clients that found them online. Nathan's best bet is most likely to start with what I suggested (and maybe other stuff also), and later if he can do mostly repeat and referal, etc, then great.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 01:11PM)
So your information is from 1995 until 2005. Fantastic.

You keep o leaving out the key thing he is looking for. "Wealthier" crowds he entertained in their homes.

I ask again how many of those types of shows you have done and for those clients?

Again for me it is the only work I have done except comedy clubs. For the past couple decades it is who I work for and work a lot for. These folks do NOT generally use Google or Gigsalad for this type of booking. The zoo or local government has nothing to do with this level of performance. They don't even book their kids birthday parties through those methods generally.

The proof in the difference is you saying they will spend thousands and have lots of entertainers. I'm talking about one magician getting thousands. Huge difference.

If he starts with your method he will be stuck there. It is that simple. It is absolutely not how you get to that level of performance.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 12, 2021 01:31PM)
I think I'm out of my league. I got lucky, as before, all that kind of work grew naturally out of the work I already did. Since I don't perform anymore, I was hoping for "real" magic (ha) and praying there might be a secret I didn't know. Nah... Hard work and time either way. I honestly wouldn't expect much else.

That being said, if anyone is part of a secret cabal where you join then get all these shows just because, please let me in.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jul 12, 2021 01:57PM)
Nathan, Why can't you just advertise your show. You can always pick what you want and leave or refer the rest.
Youíre not obligated to take every request you get from your advertising.

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 02:52PM)
Because YOU DON'T ADVERTISE for this type of show.

Also the real disqualifying factors nobody is talking about are he doesn't perform much and wants to get back in at a very high level, doesn't want to put in much heavy lifting and wants shows to just appear.

He is right. Out of his current league. Maybe he could build up to it, but currently no chance.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 12, 2021 02:57PM)
Danny, he is just sort of starting out, and he didn't say he wanted to just perform for millionaires, just people who are weathier, and just part-time. Should he contact millionaires right off the bat? I was talking about corporate work because Mindpro brought it up. But as far as house parties, most magicians are not working for thousands per gig doing house parties for millionaires, they are doing house parties locally for say in the ballpark of $300-$1000 per gig, that's the bread and butter for most guys doing that. You can specialize in doing high end gigs if you are ready, but not just starting out, get your magician skills in order first by doing lots of gigs, get your quotes and photos and videos and referals, then go from there. There is no reason anyone has to be stuck there, not that that's a bad thing. I specialize in caricatures and doing magic and ventriloquism kid shows and strolling magic for kids, and I'm in an improv comedy group (though that's more for fun). I've done thousands of gigs (I have 8 this week), and booked thousands of entertainers. I was giving basic advice, not giving anyone a complete course in marketing. And I do live and work in the weathiest county in PA, offhand, 70% of my clients are upper middle income and lower wealthy income, and I do occasional shows for millionaires and several for a billionaire. I started from scatch again when I moved to Oregon and again when I moved to PA and got up and running right away just by doing some basic stuff. I did think about marketing specifically to millionaires, but decided not to bother, I'm happy doing what I do and I do well. I did read one book for magicians on marketing to millionaires, but it was terrible.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 03:15PM)
[quote]On Jul 9, 2021, Nathan Alexander wrote:

Years ago I had a few shows for "wealthier" crowds at their homes where I entertained in their living room. It went over very well, but I never had more than that. Is this a feasible market I can approach?


Great Dan. But this was his very specific question. I have quoted his question up front.

You have said this is not what you do. No problem. This is ALL I do.

The suggestions you have are the equivalent of using Bass fishing equipment and bait and techniques to fish for squid.

The Bass fishing equipment may be wonderful and the techniques may very well work incredibly well for Bass and yield great success.

It will be less than useless for squid.

Nothing wrong with fishing for Bass. It is great. It is just that you won't catch many squid, except by coincidence.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jul 12, 2021 03:37PM)
Advertising is the ONLY way you get business. No business can survive without it.

True a long-time performer can book many shows from word of mouth only, but even that is a type of advertising.

Thing is, a newcomer canít get word of mouth without first getting the word out there.

Keep in mind, advertising comes in all shapes and sizes. He doesnít have to run ads in newspapers,

but I can guarantee you that if he doesnít find a way to advertise he will fail.

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 03:47PM)
OK Tom what SPECIFICALLY do you suggest as a form of advertising and where will you place said advertisements in order to get to the SPECIFIC crowd he is talking about? Don't just make blanket statements about "advertising" and how it is necessary. Give me VERY specific guidelines.

Because the WRONG advertisements will make a business fail MUCH sooner than none at all.

Please regale us with all your experience in these markets. I can't WAIT to hear. And please be VERY specific for us and do not speak in generalities and platitudes.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Jul 12, 2021 03:54PM)
Oy! Danny, you should have been a lawyer! But you do have a good first name. All I said was get a good website (like you), etc, etc, very basic stuff to get him started, it wasn't specific to only finding millionaire clients. If he only wants millionaire clients, well that is a specialty marketing thing that I don't have special expertise in, though I've done plenty of gigs for rich people. I don't do gigs for poor people very often any more because of where I live, but when I used to do them, they were often some of the nicest people and often tipped me better than the country club folks.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 04:05PM)
I do not have a good web site LOL. (At least not one accessible to people without knowing to go there.) Which is sort of the point I am making.

And if by be a lawyer you mean actually read and answer the question being asked I guess sure.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 12, 2021 04:53PM)
I don't abhor hard work. But not hard work for no reason. It's simply a matter of not necessarily wanting to work out of proportion for the amount of shows I would like to have. Obviously there aren't shortcuts, so I may just "up my presence" among a few other things. I may advertise. If so, I'd make a site/one-page for my shows as a reference point (different than my catch-all site for my other work).

I don't perform for a living, but I still take some shows. I have only three shows booked this year. Four last year (canceled for obvious reasons). Each word-of-mouth except for one past client. I enjoy them, but (until recently rethinking the kind of show I'd prefer to do) have not sought them out in the last five years. It's never been what I do for a living, so if someone inquires, I think about if I want to or not (don't get me wrong, I treat each show as if they're the best client I ever had and prepare accordingly, meaning being on my game). If I take it, it's nice to have. In a few years I'll get calls from libraries again and do that whole tour thing. I like it, but don't actively seek out the work like years past.

So, to this current question. Many years ago, I performed a fair amount of shows within a few years with a few enjoyable things in common: (small) 15-25 people, private gig, higher middle-class (not uber rich), casual "parlor-esque" shows with sitting down/standing routine combos, and I allowed a fair amount of spontaneity and flexibility. They were all a success (and like all performers, I've had horror stories, too). I got them strictly from being seen at larger events or word of mouth.

They were some of my best in the sense that the clients had wonderful things to say, and I got to perform everything from Cardiogrpahic to Sam the Bellhop with other fun, "casual living room" magic (or maybe a reserved dining room in a restaurant) in the way I wanted. This was different from my highly scripted library, city kids fest and school shows. The atmosphere was relaxed, fun and nearly no pressure as it seemed I could do no wrong. Now, please understand I suffer from social anxiety (I've chosen the wrong line of work, huh?). But I attribute the success to the following: I was recommended or seen at a previous party, so I was already pre-sold to the guests, I was sitting and "holding court" making sure everyone was laughing and enjoying themselves, and I did routines that I really enjoy performing. This helped a lot, especially for my own level of comfort.

For reference, I sweat like no one's business at each show. It was only about 15 years ago I finally worked my sweat into the comedy, setting it up up front and making wiping my face with underwear a callback (for kid/family shows). I still suffer from performance anxiety and social situations and still take meds. I'm a homebody, I don't have many friends, and I sit in back in church so I'm not noticed :). Just the way I am (my therapist says I'm improving, ha).

I don't believe those shows are out of my reach, I still perform casually and know how to do the job. To get them, however, just means being a little more proactive and making sure people know I do what I do.

Last week I shot a broadcast spot for a health care company. Someone mentioned they saw I did magic, and could I show them something? Since I had decided to test the waters for more work, I obliged as they set up for the next shot. After the shoot wrapped, the client and the production team both asked about what kind of shows I do, because each had specific events in mind and wanted my info. You know how it goes. One wanted me to hold the date right there and I've been talking with them since.

In short, it's these kinds of things I can do to get word out. BUT, I ask about these kinds of shows because I don't mind them as much. I have even thought about giving up acting because I get serious anxiety, including days before. But they pay too much for me to say no, and it would be irresponsible to turn down a job when it can help support my family.

I appreciate everyone's input. I think what I'll do is narrow the focus. Maybe I'll offer a few free shows (which yes, I know you have to sell as hard, if not harder, than paid) on my local city Facebook group in the next 1-6 months to get photos, video, etc for my marketing use. Then make a simple site other than my main one for contact, info and style of shows. In doing so, I won't sweat as much for those shows, and I get to sharpen my skills and area of interest.

For what it's worth, I still get asked a lot about performing. It's funny, because the more I turn away (especially when they sense I just don't want to), the more I seem to be sought.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2021 05:18PM)
I don't think for a second you abhor hard work. I think you have other things you need to do in your life and committing as much as needed to get this particular thing done is simply not what you want to do. BIG difference.

I admire the self awareness to not just jump in and assume you can do it. Magic performance can use a lot more of that!
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 14, 2021 09:25AM)
I agree with this as well. It's hard for an extreme part-timer to ever really get any traction or progress only performing a handful of times a year. There are some (several) key ways to target the home party niche that can be quite effective which can lead to generating and priming the referral process.

Home parties is not necessarily a easy target to execute as there are always so many unknowns and variables from gig to gig, not to mention distractions, differing expectations, and lack of structure to it all. Mid to high-end opportunities do exist, but many magicians really do not understand how to target or approach these as we've seen by other previous wanna-be gurus here from the past.
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Jul 17, 2021 03:52AM)
How the f does a website showing all the commercials youíve done and a quote supposedly from your wife saying youíre a three out of ten looks wise help you get magic shows?

And respectfully, if your nerves are so bad that you sweat profusely and have to be wiping yourself down constantly (with underpants or any other item) then youíre not ready for the sort of higher end parlour shows that you desire.

You have to walk in and be top dog or at least equal with everyone in the room. You canít work for rich people unless you belong. Or look like you do.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 17, 2021 04:58AM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2021, Futureal wrote:
How the f does a website showing all the commercials youíve done and a quote supposedly from your wife saying youíre a three out of ten looks wise help you get magic shows?

And respectfully, if your nerves are so bad that you sweat profusely and have to be wiping yourself down constantly (with underpants or any other item) then youíre not ready for the sort of higher end parlour shows that you desire.

You have to walk in and be top dog or at least equal with everyone in the room. You canít work for rich people unless you belong. Or look like you do. [/quote]

Sure, no problem.

1) Well, it doesn't lol, as I think I said above. Nor was it supposed to. But again,I haven't been actively working or professionally seeking magic for a long time. Hence the original post. I mean, I used to link to a bit of magic stuff, but not for a few years. (Although I've used other domains I still own for magic stuff, including when I taught summer community classes, did kids shows, etc.)

It actually does help me get work, by the way, but in that particular business. I've done over 20 national spots (and plenty of industrial work) yet I'm small beans. But when potential clients look and then see I'm not fresh on the agents roster, my work gets me taken seriously as they know I understand how a set works and how to do the job were hired to do. (As you probably know, actors are a very small cog on the wheel for these things.)

And the fake quote is meant to be humorous. Tongue-in-cheek goes along well with my persona and style. Like my card, below.

2) my fault, maybe I over-exaggerated. I obviously seem to manage. But as I've told my wife, I'm kinda tired of acting and wearing masks. In the sense of always being the "funny guy" or whatever. I feel like I'm always "on". I suspect as a protective measure. I'm getting better though.

But my point is, either on the magic stage or in front of the camera, I become a different guy. I transform, and perform just fine. BUT, when it goes south, I've learned to recognize it and prepare for it. Confidence is a fickle thing for me.

That's all.

To be honest with you, I have done just fine by objective standards when performing. Top dog? I can (and do) do that when I need to. I'm fairly certain when I "become that guy" no one would ever even suspect I had confidence problems. When I'm on, I'm on. Fortune 500 exec or famous celebrity (we've all been there, we've all done that), it doesn't matter.

Now having said all that, you're right. If I can't get my head right, I'm out of my field. You're absolutely right.

But even though I can do it, I suspect it takes a lot more work for me than others to feel that confidence. Imposter syndrome? Low self-esteem? I'm subject to those more often than you, then, and despite all the shows (or acting gigs) I've done that went fantastic, those potential personal pitfalls can derail my confidence in future jobs.

See? It's a weird circle. I love what I do, but I hate what I do. (Dear Lord, does that make me a tortured artist? Lol)

Eh... Not sure if that answers your questions better. And maybe you were just being rhetorical.

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2021 09:56AM)
Is the card an example of you being funny?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2021 11:01AM)
And why do magicians think underwear is automatically funny?
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 17, 2021 11:44AM)
Yeah, of course. You don't think it's funny?

And the kids loved it (the underwear), every single time. I think Silly Billy gave me that advice once.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 17, 2021 12:16PM)
And you think this translate to high end clients?

And no the card did not strike me as remotely amusing.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 17, 2021 12:40PM)
Hadn't thought about it, no. But that's kinda why I came here looking for help.

And hey, no problem. In all honesty, I usually hear people enjoy it.
Message: Posted by: Nathan Alexander (Jul 17, 2021 01:04PM)
As an aside, I should mention, my "vibe" (or whatever you might call it), was originally more for me. It seemed to fit me. And when I noticed people thought it was funny (believe it or not, there are some, Lol), I kinda made it my thing. But this was all before now, when I decided to think about ways I might approach a certain potential segment of performances. So yeah, I can change all that, but the truth is, if it's not me, then perhaps that market isn't for me, either, so I don't want to fake it if I'm not already a high-end client type of guy. (I am not high end myself, my most expensive suit was off the rack... at a cheap place, ha.)

Again, the shows I [i]did[/i] do that I was hoping to gravitate towards (on purpose, if I could), may have been a fluke. I worked at a ritzy health club (front desk guy) in an expensive community/suburb for a long time. They sort of passed me around for a while. But that was [i]after[/i] they already knew me. So perhaps anything I may have currently I could use to market and brand myself is way off the mark, as, once again, I can't relate to that population. Which again just tells me it's not worth it for me, because I'm not looking to make a living in performing, and there's no guarantee anyway.

Mindpro gave me some fantastic advice privately (thank you) that is worth checking out and that I may be able to benefit from. The whole self-deprecation angle/thing was just fun to do, and it was a good excuse to "be that guy" on purpose (why not) so I could have my billets, too. I didn't use cards back when. Mostly mailings from "shows-in-a-box" that actually served me well when I followed them appropriately (for the schools, libraries, and so on).

Well, anyway, I appreciate everyone's advice. I think it's just over my head. I better stick to what I know and let full-time guys do what they do, and I'll stick to... well, at 45, I'm still trying to figure that out, ha!

On the other hand, lots of great thoughts here, guys. Seriously, it's given me much to think about and I appreciate you all jumping in.
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Jul 20, 2021 05:41AM)
Nathan - I love your honesty.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 20, 2021 12:27PM)
Yes, it is refreshing to see someone here speak in real honesty and openness without ego shading everything. I've always believed you will the most help, assistance, and growth by operating and approaching things this way.
Message: Posted by: KungFuMagic (Jul 20, 2021 04:14PM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
Advertising is the ONLY way you get business. No business can survive without it.


I respectfully disagree with the above statement. MARKETING is the only way you get business, particularly self-seeding and sustainable business. An effective, multi-faceted, intentional, and strategic plan for developing contact responses and opportunities to present your business & close sales. Advertising is a single element of that broad plan ... valid and useful, but a single element. Especially regarding higher position clientele, networking, visibility, trust/reputation establishment, value/cache-building, community integration, and more are going to be effective tools in luring in "big fish" kinds of customers.

Upper class professionals (Bank Managers, Corporate Execs, Federal Judges, Lawfirm name partners, etc) will not usually be drawn to the average $400 a show card flinger with sponge ball finish (zero disrespect intended ... honest). The "advertising" model will work well for the bulk of workers. Not so much the more premium market angle. The personna development, cache, network connections, and branding are crucial, moreso, the farther up the income range one travels. IDENTIFYING THE NEED AND THE VALUE that customers [place on their entertaining/events will direct the efforts.

while empassioned, this is simple my take on it all ... and I ould be completely wrong.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jul 20, 2021 06:41PM)

You're right, marketing would have probably been a better word to use in this instance.

But Iím of the mindset that Ďmarketingí is all about figuring out who you want to do business with, advertising is asking for that business. :)

And speaking of mindset, breaking into that market is all about mindset. You do have to fit in OR be able to play the part well.

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 20, 2021 07:09PM)
You don't work for that market so you have no clue just how wrong that is.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Jul 20, 2021 07:21PM)
You're Right Danny, I Never Said I worked for that market. But I have done business with some very, very rich people.
Guess what? Theyíre Ďrealí people too, not someone to be afraid of.

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 21, 2021 01:35AM)
Guess what Tom? Yet again you say something that only you said. Nobody said to be afraid of anyone but you do why mention it at all?

Funny that when you are shown to be wrong you just keep pivoting instead of learning.
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Aug 5, 2021 01:39AM)
Did the very, very rich people send their kids to your daycare?
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Aug 5, 2021 07:39AM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2021, Futureal wrote:
Did the very, very rich people send their kids to your daycare? [/quote]

Some did, why?

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 5, 2021 02:08PM)
Most of the super wealthy do not send their kids to daycare at all.

They certainly don't send them to one that is inexpensive enough so only "some" of the kids are from that social strata.

You are either catering to that crowd or you are not.

Often daycare is about proximity. Not being in the expensive neighborhood or near the place of business hurts your chances of having them in your place of business.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Aug 5, 2021 05:49PM)
You're right that the SUPER Wealthy are a bit different.

Still, there are many very rich people around that donít have a problem mingling with us normal folks.:)

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 5, 2021 06:39PM)
Funny how you keep needing to move the goalposts to try desperately to be right.

Because his EXACT question was about the "very very rich".

And sorry but no they just don't bring their kids to daycare.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Aug 5, 2021 07:09PM)
Danny, Iím not talking to him now and Iím not talking about the SUPER rich.
Nor am I talking about the rich that think their stuff donít stink as they say.
Like you, I just talk to myself sometimes, so disregard what I say. Ok

Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 5, 2021 07:37PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2021, TomBoleware wrote:
[quote]On Aug 5, 2021, Futureal wrote:
Did the very, very rich people send their kids to your daycare? [/quote]

Some did, why?

Tom [/quote]
Sorry. This seemed to me as if you were participating in an online conversation. I guess I just got it wrong.

And don't lump me in with the whole "I am just talking to myself" thing you have going on. I don't do that, and online I CERTAINLY don't do that. Maybe nobody listens, but that doesn't mean I am talking to myself.
Message: Posted by: TomBoleware (Aug 5, 2021 08:12PM)
Danny, Iím sorry, I thought you were talking about the OP post. I got my himís mixed up.

But yes I did have some very rich people enrolled in my daycare.

Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Aug 5, 2021 09:37PM)
I guess I just need to know the line between rich, very rich, very very rich, super rich, ultra rich, no way does he have that much money rich, etc.