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Topic: Copper/silver transpo problem
Message: Posted by: sc_wizard29 (Jul 22, 2004 06:55AM)
In most ung*** copper/silver tranposition routines, there is a part where the performer puts both (?) coins in the spectator's hand and asks him to close it. He then reaches into the fist, takes one of the coins and makes the transposition happen.

What bothers me is that you're supposed to make the spectator close his hand WITHOUT letting him look what you put inside. This is usually done by covering the coins with your hand, asking the spectator to close his hand and THEN removing your hand.

Spectators are usually highly suspicious when I do this because the move doesn't look natural AT ALL.

How do you handle this ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)
Message: Posted by: Stuart Hooper (Jul 22, 2004 07:40AM)
Better to show both coins very openly, and let the spectator take them out of *your* hands. A moment's cover of their hand should be all you need!
Message: Posted by: Tiki (Jul 22, 2004 07:41AM)
For a natural handling of this move, take a look at Greg Wilson's "On the Spot" dvd.
Message: Posted by: Chris "linkster" Watson (Jul 22, 2004 07:52AM)
I think half the problem with these type of situations is that we as magicians know what we are doing and almost telegraph the fact we are feeling guilty to the spectator. By keeping relaxed and keeping the spectator engaged you can get around most of the problem. Talk to the spectator as you are placing the coins into their hand. Look straight at them and wait until they look at you. Put the coins into their hand and close their hand with your thumb whilst still covering the coins with the other hand. I think it was Max Malini who when asked "how long do you wait" (To missdirect a spectators attention) to which he replied "I vait a veek" or "I wait a week" if you want it without the accent ;).

Usually I do the sw**ch before putting a single coin into the hand rather than both but I would imagine similar rules will apply.

If you want to see a great performance of the single coin s***ch then I would recommend the performance only video of "Albert Goshman Performs" from international magic. I keep harping on about it here at the Café but it really is a chance to see a master at work. If you also get the book Magic by Gosh it gives you a description of the whole routine.

You may also find it interesting to see how Michael Close Deals with a similar situation all be it in a gimmicked version of the routine. His version uses a C/S gaff and is called Chicken Tiryaki and is on one of his worker series of videos.

Sorry it's not an exact solution to your problem, I'm sure one of the more experienced members will be able to shed some more light on the subject.

Message: Posted by: Mike Wild (Jul 22, 2004 08:19AM)
This same situation arises in both gaffed and ungaffed routines. Placement of coins into the spectator's hand in a common thread in many C/S and CSB routines, and there is always something more going on than we want them to know about... how much dirty work is afoot depends upon the routine, but there's invariably something else besides the apparent going on. See Dan Watkins copper / silver routine if you want to see a really ballsy move to the spectator's hand.

Placing the coins into their hands should be like second nature, no matter what else is needed to achieve the desired result. A Sw**ch that allows the spectator to see the coins right up to the very moment you place them always helps to reinforce the move, and belays suspicion.


Message: Posted by: warren (Jul 22, 2004 08:20AM)
If I'm using a copper/silver coin the spectator's see both coin's go in to their hand very fairly,also as it's the third phase of my routine they have already seen me close my hand around the two coin's twice so they are conditioned to this action.
if I'm using two normal coin's I start with a flurry and don't introduce the second coin into the routine until I've already done my switch as in the easy to master money tapes of micheal Ammar.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 22, 2004 08:52AM)
Have you read where that handling comes from? Check out the write up in Fred Kaps lecture notes.

The 'variations' tend to have some weaknesses, and they expect you to know and have tried the original.

The 'other' way is to NOT introduce the other coin till after they are holding it.

More on this in secret sessions if you want, and have done your homework.
Message: Posted by: levitate (Jul 22, 2004 09:35AM)
Honestly if done the right way it doesn't matter. Don't put any heat on it - they shouldn't be aware of extras anyways. Check out Roths digital copper silver in expert coin magic for a simple solution to your problem.

Message: Posted by: Dr.Fate (Jul 22, 2004 09:48AM)
David Stones the glove routine from vol.2 features a wonderful copper silver transpo in the spectators hand.He allows the spec to see what coins are placed in their hand and remove one of the coins.
Message: Posted by: Mike Wild (Jul 22, 2004 11:10AM)
RE: "The 'other' way is to NOT introduce the other coin till after they are holding it."

GOOD point Jon. I forgot to mention that.

Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Jul 22, 2004 11:24AM)
I think David Stone has a few good ideas with The Glove routine on his videos. But what I absolutely hate about that routine is he does the transposition literally like 5 times. They know what happens, they know when, and they're not amazed anymore. I found that cutting it down to just two phases: once in my hands, and once in theirs works a lot better than doing it 4 in my hands and once in theirs.
Message: Posted by: Dr.Fate (Jul 22, 2004 12:53PM)
David,I agree he does it to many times.You are also correct that he has a few good ideas in that routine.
For example his fake torn and restored napkin,I use this as a way of introducing the silk for when I do Roths copper/silver filtration.
Message: Posted by: mattisdx (Jul 23, 2004 06:44AM)
Invent a way to let them see both in their hand when there's only 1, or let them check and see 2, than make a steal :D
Message: Posted by: rickmagic1 (Jul 23, 2004 11:52AM)
Johnny Thompson has a great method for this and I've used it to great success. If you're interested, it is on volume 1 and 3 off his Classic Magic videos from L&L.