(Close Window)
Topic: Penguins Slydini Silks
Message: Posted by: coolleprechaun (Aug 14, 2004 06:14PM)
Are these as good as the ones Tony Clark sells because Penguin sells them for a very low price?
Message: Posted by: maxwell (Aug 15, 2004 03:33PM)
Hi Coolleprechaun,

Good question! It'll be tough for people to answer this question for a few days since the Slydini Silks have only been available through Penguin for a few hours.

But, I've got some Penguin Slydini Silks sitting on my desk right now, and I feel confident in saying they're some of the best Slydini Silks ever made (perhaps even the best since Slydini had them made for himself). And they're available for the lowest price since 1969!

We're so confident in the quality of our Slydini Silks we're happy to offer a full money-back guarantee on the Penguin Slydini Silks. Anyone who doesn't like them for any reason can send them back for a full refund.

Best,

Maxwell Murphy
Penguin Magic
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Aug 16, 2004 09:59PM)
Since Tony Slydini himself in the 1960s taught me this routine, there are really several factors that come into play here.

The first is very obvious; they don't come from Tony Slydini.

The second fact is that you don't have to have Tony Slydini's silks to do the routine. I publicly performed this routine in Birmingham the first week of this month with regular colored 4/5 momme silks.

My third concern is the license to sell the item as a trick with Slydini instructions. Tony Clark and I are former Tony Slydini students. (Tony Clark is also writing Dove Hotline now, which I also started and wrote for over six years. Currently I am trying to get two books finished before fall.)

Personally, I am unaware of any connection between the folks at Penguin Magic and Tony Slydini. I would want assurance that a licensing agreement between them did in fact exists. Otherwise, I would suggest that one skip buying the silks until they attend a lecture from a Tony Slydini student on the subject.

The trick is not in the silks. Tony made the silks from parachute silk (nylon) and a "planned error" to allow the magician to use two white silks. Using two white silks is certainly not a requirement of the trick. I have not performed the trick with white silks since the 1970s.

It is a very good trick and routine that can be done close-up or on stage. The only reason I would use white silks is because they fit the rest of my act. In my case it does not. I let my volunteer choose any two colors from three colors of six silks used in the previous routine. In Birmingham, I let the volunteer keep his favorite of the two as a souvenir. In Birmingham, black was the favorite "keeper" color. Obviously, the silks were not a major factor. The handling is everything.

The decision is still yours.

Good Luck!

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Aug 17, 2004 12:25PM)
Well said Bob.

Maxwell...are you licensed "to sell the item as a trick with Slydini instructions?"
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 18, 2004 07:20AM)
The only thing that I have seen is that they explain how to tie a knot so that it slips off the the other silk. I don't know if that is something Slydini can license or not. I don't think that they are selling his routine, unless Slydini's routine is pretty basic, and I don't know what Slydini instructions are, unless it is how to tie a knot. Besides, Palmer claims to have the exclusive right to manufacture the silks, so maybe that is the problem (although, I don't know whether Slydini can grant true legal rights to manufacture parachute cloth silks unless he patented it somehow.)
Message: Posted by: Robert_V_Frazier (Aug 18, 2004 08:32AM)
I bought the Slydini Silks package from L&L Publishing. It consists of the chapter on the silks from the book [i]The Annotated Magic of Slydini[/i] by Lewis Ganson, along with a set of the silks and a mini-DVD with Bill Malone's routine "Test of Strength" from the [i]On the Loose[/i] DVD set. There is much more to it than just instructions on how to tie a knot. It's a complete routine, with the silks tied and untied in a variety of ways, with different knots, some tied by the magician, some by a spectator. The final phase is an effect of splitting a knot tying the two silks together into two knots, one on each silk. This is shown in the demo clip at Penguin. Even from the demo, it's clear that they are selling Slydini's whole routine, not just a set of silks and not just how to tie a self-untying knot.

Robert V Frazier
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 18, 2004 10:36AM)
[quote]
I don't know whether Slydini can grant true legal rights to manufacture parachute cloth silks unless he patented it somehow.)
[/quote]

No, but his heirs can enforce a restriction of the use of Tony's performing name. So at least a change in the product name is in order, but this is nothing new for Penguin.

Cheers,

Tom
Message: Posted by: pikacrd (Aug 18, 2004 11:14AM)
Good Call Tom.
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 18, 2004 04:39PM)
Well I am getting the routine from Penguin. If they are selling the [i]whole[/i] Slydini routine without permission, then I agree it is wrong. I am not sure they are. The teaching video covers each phase in a rather blase way. Maybe that is the routine. But there is not much theater to it, not if you compare it to Slydini and Malone. I own the Malone DVD, so at least I will feel comfortable about the purchase. The use of the name Slydini is for the lawyers. It really doesn't affect Slydini as much as it affects the company, to which he gave permission to make the silks. But I think other companies make the silks, too, and sell them in many magic store.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Aug 19, 2004 08:08AM)
Other people make $20 bills too! It is not a career path I would recommend, even for a magician.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 19, 2004 05:33PM)
Ignorance of the matter is a fair enough cop out for not caring… so let me tell you a little about the manufacturer of this product. Rob Stiff, the Owner of Magic Makers, is the kind of guy who sits at another man’s table, a guest in his house for the day and for a wonderful catered dinner on several occasions and then turns around and stabs his host in the back by selling knock offs of this hosts products… in specific these silks.

Rob Stiff is the kind of guy who copies the products of others and even steals the name (e.g. Golden Shells and these here silks) all in the name of “business”. No research and development, no product awareness building, just ship the original off to China and have it copied for pennies.

If you choose to support this type of person, then don’t be surprised when it is you who end up paying the consequences. I have never met Mr. Maxwell, but for me his poor business ethics speak volumes enough. When you are deciding on a product to purchase, unfortunately, companies like these two have created an environment where issues like these are part of the decision process. They are a match made in hades, one to produce the trash and another to liquidate it.

So now you know. Ignorance is no longer your defense. As many have said, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. It is your choice.

Cheers,

Tom
Message: Posted by: wayno (Aug 19, 2004 08:59PM)
I'm not too sure if this clears anything up about licensing, but Steve Pellegrino asked me to pass this on.

"I’ve received some email about Penguin Magic selling The Slydini Silks and if they are ripping off anyone. The answer is yes and no. I spoke with Louis Falanga today and here is the explanation. L&L owns the rights to The Magic of Slydini which includes the Slydini Silks routine and they also own The Annotated Slydini, which is an expanded version of the now out of print, The Magic of Slydini.

The Slydini Silks routine is also in print in Karl Fulves’ books The Best of Slydini and More, which D. Robbins owns.

So, unless Penguin has permission from D. Robbins & L&L (which they don’t), they cannot teach the Slydini Routine. If they are not teaching the Slydini routine and teaching their own version of the routine, then they cannot call it the Slydini Silks routine as it is a misrepresentation of what they are selling. “Slydini” is not a generic term for knots that seem to untie by themselves.

It’s important to understand the difference in what they are selling and the real Slydini Silks. I own the real deal from L&L, so I am not about to spend money to see what they are offering. But using common sense, logic, having seen the demo video on Penguin’s web site and from past experience, I suspect that once again, the Penguin customer is losing out. Here’s an example of how. On the Bill Malone DVDs, he teaches his version of the routine, however he goes on to say that if you want (and I hate using this phrase) “the real work", you have to read The Annotated Slydini because there is more in there than he can teach on the DVDs. I suspect Bill Malone has more experience than most and even he is saying read Slydini. I doubt the Penguin customers will get the same insight as someone who reads the book.

What about Tony Clark & Steve Draun? They both sell it. Do they have permission?

This is where Penguin should have taken it’s cue. Neither Tony Clark or Steve Draun are selling the“Slydini Silks” routine. They are selling their own versions of it and have other names for the product. Tony Clark calls his Sly Scarves. For those Penguin customers reading this, Tony Clark was a student of Slydini and if you don’t want to buy the L&L version, buy Tony’s version. If you’re serious about the effect, you should buy both and learn from the master and the student.

So who is getting ripped off? Penguin customers, that’s who. They think they are learning Slydini Silks. The routine is being represented to them as Slydini’s. It isn’t. I’ve seen a trend with Penguin customers that they are content to be happy with inferior products. One quote I saw regarding the Golden Shells said “…they may not be perfect, but they’re good enough for me.” I think that is a shame. We need to strive for perfection, no matter if you’re doing magic as a hobby or a profession."
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Aug 20, 2004 12:50PM)
Wayne,

Thank you for your good work and sticking your neck out there in search of the truth.

Perhaps one day we can insist upon honest labeling of products. Many need a label that says,

"Think of this product as an ALMOST Perfect Tattoo. It's permanently INFERIOR by design!"

"Everybody else knows that at its best, it is a lousy job, but you alone may be unable to see it."

Then we can open a new forum:

Magic By Self-deception of the Magician!

Or

Slydini's Fakes Over the Head of The Chump Magician!

“And the Winner Isn’t…”

Bob
Magic By Sander

I'm glad I saved my money and got the real thing!
Message: Posted by: Webhead93 (Aug 20, 2004 04:17PM)
I visited Penguin today and they have changed the promotion at the top of the page to Sly Silks and if you click on that link it goes to a page where they are called Sly Silks and are now described as Slydini style silks. But there is still an ad in the middle of the home page that says Slydini Silks.
Message: Posted by: wayno (Aug 20, 2004 05:30PM)
Almost there. ;)
Message: Posted by: Webhead93 (Aug 20, 2004 05:50PM)
Now it says Sly D Silks!


Ok, now they have changed all the ads to Sly Silks. I feel ok to buy them now.
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 21, 2004 02:52PM)
So I sit here with my legally purchased Malone DVD, with his routine using the Slydini silks. But wait, is he really using the Slydini silks sold by Palmer? I suppose he is, but he doesn't say. I do suspect that he may have learned the routine by Slydini himself. I hope so, because if he did not, or at least gotten permission to teach the routine, the magic community would has descended on Malone like a ton of bricks. He does suggest that we buy Slydini's book, but I guess it is OK to also buy Malone's DVD. But do I need both to be accepted by the magic police?

So I also buy the 14 dollar Penguin silks. I bought them when they were called Slydini silks, although I knew they weren't his personally. I knew I had a legal right to perform the routine, so I figured I could buy the stupid silks from anyone I wanted. Palmer doesn't lose money, since I would have never sent them a dime to buy 35 dollar silks. If I make some money with this, then I will buy the better silks and keep the cheaper ones for practice.

So what do all of you really feel? Not about Maxwell or Penguin, or some mythical amateur magician trading secrets on the internet. I am talking about me—someone who owns the cheap silks and Malone's DVD. Am I the ignorant one here? Am I ruining magic?

I think some of you need to be more open here and say what you really feel :). I think that what some of you are really ****ed at is that people can get into magic without first becoming an apprentice to some professional. I think that too many of you think it is too easy. I am tempted to say the same thing, now that I can label myself as one of those "good guys" who buys the classic books, works forever on perfecting my routines, yada, yada, yada. But still I feel like I am on the outside looking in.

If Penguin is doing something wrong—violating copyrights or patents—then they should suffer. I am not defending them. But people who buy from Penguin are not thieves.

And be careful. No matter how far you are into magic, there is always someone above you who thinks you are ruining it for them.
Message: Posted by: Webhead93 (Aug 21, 2004 09:46PM)
Chris, I do not think you are ignorant. I was actually thinking of doing what you did. I have the Malone DVD already which I suppose gives me the right to perform this (?) but I just need the silks. So does it matter where I get the silks from? I suppose not but Penguin is not only selling the silks but I assume they are selling a routine as well. Is it original? Is it Slydini's? I don't know.

My previous posts were not meant to bash Penguin but to point out how they seemed to scramble to make the change at the same time this thread was going on.

There has been other instances though along with this one that make me hesitate to do business with them. The decision would be a lot easier if they didn't have such low prices!
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 21, 2004 11:07PM)
The trouble is that I did not know they were also selling the routine. This is true anytime I walk into any magic shop. You have to take the word of the proprieter. I do not know enough about what Slydini teaches to judge what Penguin sells.

My point was that there sometimes seems to be a feeling that if company X is in the outs in the magic community, anyone who doesn't openly condem that company is also at fault. This is all done in the name of ethics, as if the ethics is always black and white. It is not. Maybe it is in one instance, but not others.
Message: Posted by: l2andall (Aug 21, 2004 11:14PM)
I purchased X amount of stuff from Penguin Magic, and therefore I recieved the sly silks with my order. However, I did not recieve any instructions, or anything... This has happened to many people on the penguin forums also. What's going on over there?
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 22, 2004 09:57AM)
Chris,

You have read about the issues of Penguin on this board, but you bought the cheap silks anyway because they were cheap. You tell us basically "I don't know what is going on" but you ignore those who do know and just do what is cheaper for you. You are questioning about Penguin, so clearly you have concerns.

Your actions have spoken for you.

Tell us now, you have the instructions for Penguin's product. Whose routine is it?

Cheers,

Tom
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 22, 2004 01:16PM)
This is what I have from Penguin. I have Sterling Scotch and Soda. Is this a cheap knock off of the Johnson product? I certainly took money out of their pockets by buying the Sterling product. I also own the Stealth Pen. Cheap knock off? Or is it a reasonably priced alternative for someone who doesn't want to spend the 40 bucks, or so, that the fancy original cost? But I was just buying some neat tricks back then, which were reasonable priced. I wasn't even on this forum then. Of course I can go to my local store (a great one in Little Rock,) and buy both of the those products, although he sells a different cheap knock off of the original pen through dollar effect.

I also own a few close-up pads (yes they were cheap) and [i]On the Spot[/i]. Everything else I have (Ammar, Wilson, Malone, Vernon, Hamman, Skinner, etc) I bought at my local shop.

And yes the silks. I do own them. And I bought them after some of these controversies started--After the Lee Asher problem and the Magic Mints disaster. I did not know there was a problem with the mints, since I spend very little time on their shop page and had not seen the thread in their forums until a couple of days ago.

But, yes, I did not first research people’s opinions on the ethics of selling silk hankies. Since I have had the Malone routine for a year, I did not think about it. They are silk hankies.

You ask about the routine, but since I do not own the original Slydini routine I can't comment. Apparently it is very close to his routine.

What this comes down to is whether or not I should boycott the company. I am becoming more troubled by their business model, although I have had nothing but good service. Their use of Instant Downloads and instructional videos is where most of these problems are arising. Lately, the "Cheap Knock" off charge is coming to the front. Maybe magicians griped about the cheap pen-through effects when they first hit the market, and it has since died down, but it seems that magicians like to pick and choose which cheap knock-offs they will buy. I do intend to be more careful, but I also contend that I can buy silk hankies from whomever I wish, if I own the routine. If Penguin is also including Slydini's routine, then that is a cause for concern, and maybe in retrospect, I should have investigated.

But this really angers me. Penguin should have just sold the silks and not used Slydini’s name. They should have offered to also sell the books or Malone’s DVD along with the silks. Maybe they could have included an instructional video on basic knot tying with the book sale, and if they had done that, I could have bought the silks in good conscience. I haven’t even looked at the instructional video closely. Grrrrrr.

Maybe I will boycott.

Do I seem schizophrenic to you?

Posted: Aug 22, 2004 2:43pm

-----------------------------------------------------
Quote:
-----------------------------------------------------

On 2004-08-22 10:57, Tom Cutts wrote:
Chris,

You have read about the issues of Penguin on this board, but you bought the cheap silks anyway because they were cheap. You tell us basically "I don't know what is going on" but you ignore those who do know and just do what is cheaper for you. You are questioning about Penguin, so clearly you have concerns.

Your actions have spoken for you.

Tell us now, you have the instructions for Penguin's product. Whose routine is it?

Cheers,

Tom


----------------------------------------------------



What evidence do you have that I ignored those who know, just so I could buy cheaper? You are judging me without knowing me. Be careful about telling me what I am "basically" saying. No one can judge the routine that Penguin sells until they buy the routine or they talk to someone who has. But that person, someone who has bought the silks, is wrong, right? Are they wrong for buying the silks, not realizing or caring that it also included a routine, like me? Or are they wrong for trying to buy the Slydini routine cheap, which I did not do?

I simply said that I do not own Slydini's routine, therefore I can't tell you whether Penguin is selling the routine.

Have you bought the Penguin silks. If not, whose advise did you take? Someone's advise who has bought the Penguin silks, or someone's advise who has not.

I will ask again. If I am to be accepted into this magical fraternity, who is allowed to trade me silks for my hard earned cash? Is Palmer Magic the only one?
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 24, 2004 10:55AM)
I have the Penguin silks. Got them as part of their free bonus item giveway for a $50 order. I have liked the routine in the past but have never bothered to order it mainly because of the price. Since it was free, I couldn't pass it up. I was looking for a few non card routines to add to the act.

Having never seen the silks before, I guess I can't comment on how they compare to the original silks. I can say that they do what is promised. The orange thread in the seam is very easy to spot. Not sure how durable they will be. I guess time will tell. My only concern is that they are white and I'm guessing that means they will get dirty faster than say Steve Draun's red silks. Not sure how to clean them.

As for the routine, it was ok. I saw Rocco do the Slydini routine a while back but can't remember it. I also saw Bill Malone's routine but likewise can't remember it. The Penguin routine is basically three phases which you can see on the site. I don't like the third phase where the knots split, but that's just me. I like Steve Draun's routine a lot because of the various displays where he and the spectator are yanking on the silks when tied. I might pick that routine up. All in all, the Penguin routine is ok but as a newbie to this routine, I would like more detail in a better setting (a studio instead of on the street like in the Penguin video). I seem to remember Malone going into great detail about what to do and what never to do and how to get around problems that might arise. As a new learner of this routine, that is info that I think is critical.

All in all, the Penguin silks are as promised and in all honesty, I believe the price is right and more in line with what the silks should cost.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Aug 24, 2004 12:56PM)
I checked with L&L and they have the copyrights to Slydini's books, routines, etc for these silks. And the silks themselves.

They did NOT sell them to Penguin.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Aug 24, 2004 01:33PM)
Real Slydini silks from Slydini did not come with an orange thread. It was tan.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Aug 24, 2004 04:39PM)
L&L can't hold copyrights on the silks, only the name as attached (or maybe that's a trademark.) They might hold patents on them. But what about Palmer Magic?

Oh, well, Penguin was clearly wrong in their naming of the silks, and probably wrong on the routine.

But I still maintain that, in general, I can buy any silks I want (you will all have to forgive me for buying them from Penguin :) ).

But in retrospect, I will think twice before I buy something like this from Penguin.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 24, 2004 05:24PM)
I'm a lawyer and could go into a long boring essay on copyrights and trademarks but I'd rather watch Ben Stein do the Six Card Repeat over and over .... :)

Bottom line, I'm sure Penguin may have "borrowed" the Slydini name, and maybe the routine (I haven't seen the original so can't comment here). I highly doubt there is a patent on the silks and it would probably be difficult to protect the routine as well.

Bottom line, it's probably just a knock-off but I got it free so I'm using it.
Message: Posted by: RyanH (Aug 25, 2004 11:14AM)
They changed the name to sly silks.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Aug 26, 2004 11:25AM)
This was written by one of our members on a different topic:
[quote]
On 2004-08-24 15:41, MRD Friday wrote:
It's interesting how magicians' verbage is shifting to describe the action of ripping off someone else's creation. The verb is "to penguin." [/quote]

I've only seen Maxwell from a distance at a magic meeting. I was hoping my friend wouldn't drag me over for an introduction because I'm not sure I could say "Nice to meet you" while biting my tongue.
Message: Posted by: BradleyNott (Aug 28, 2004 10:21PM)
"I'm not sure I could say "Nice to meet you" while biting my tongue."

That is so funny!

I think that no matter how many bad versions are produced of the standards in magic, good magicians will always shine over "tricksters"

I am afraid that Penguin, while helping many people get started in magic and keep the fascination, helps more people become mere "tricksters" than encouragement to become magicians with solid foundations.

Nothing is Easy to Master...nothing.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Aug 30, 2004 08:27AM)
I've been working with these silks for a while now. I ran into some problems with the instructions on the Penguin video so I watched Rocco's explanation of Slydini's handling on the IMS dvds. Rocco's handling is really smooth and his "release" move is explained in good detail and is great.

The problem is that his routine as well as several other ones that I have seen involve spectators tying multiple knots and then you and the spectator tug on the ends of the silks to prove they are tight. I have tried and tried and I cannot get this to work with the penguin silks, especially if you tug on the ends. I can get to the point where I tie the initial knot and then the spectator ties one knot on top. That works fine as long as you don't tug on the ends of the silk, but after those initial knots, any others tied on top will not work.

I'll keep working at it, but I'm baffled up to this point.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Walter (Sep 1, 2004 04:17PM)
emyers99 wrote:
[quote]
...involve spectators tying multiple knots and then you and the spectator tug on the ends of the silks to prove they are tight. I have tried and tried and I cannot get this to work with the penguin silks...
[/quote]
I am not surprised! The Penguin instructions for this is a 9 minutes downloadable wmv-movie file and you can not in my opinion expect to learn this great classic of magic this way!
And by the way, the "silks" that you get from Penguin works alright, even if the spectator ties knots on top of your own. I know, I tried it out. A friend of mine got the Slydini... eh Sly silks and access to the instruction video clip as a free bonus.
How did I manage? Easy!
I am a lucky owner of The Slydini book, written by Lewis Ganson and bought by me from Supreme in the early 70:s I just read the text, 14 pages with compact text in tiny fonts, and followed the photographs on nine more full picture pages. How many photographs? Hold on to your hats:69; yes sixtynine!
It took me more than 9 minutes.

(Seriously I learned the routine from this book many years ago and in my opinion it is not easy to learn it from what I saw in the Penguin video clip.)

My point is that the serious magic student who is new to this effect and who really understand the potential of this, goes out and search for the good and original stuff to be sure to get it right!
The rest play with it for a while, toss it away, and we, the good guys ;) are the few who really perform this great mystery in an, I hope, entertaining manner!
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 2, 2004 07:10AM)
I agree about the Penguin video. That's why I went out and watched Rocco's perform and explain it. It still didn't work. I guess I will shell out for the L&L kit with the book .
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Sep 3, 2004 01:17AM)
Your tugging on the wrong ends and it's not breaking loose the knot.
Pay attention to the thread.
Also note wheather the person tied a square or granny knot.
Message: Posted by: emyers99 (Sep 3, 2004 08:24AM)
Believe me, I'm pulling on the right ends. The penguin video did not explain the difference between a square and granny knot. That might be the problem.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Sep 3, 2004 08:44AM)
Emyers99,

The wrong knot will wreck the train! No Grannies allowed!

Scheme!

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Thomas Walter (Sep 4, 2004 12:01PM)
The last posts make it all clear:
The Penguin version is not the Slydini routine. If it was, there should not be any problems with the knots made by a spectator, granny or square.

But once again, I am lucky to have the original book.

By the way, it doesn't matter which knot the spectator makes as long as you have done the knot upsetting business before he/she ties his her knot/knots.
And you pull on the right ends.
Message: Posted by: Jason Fleming (Oct 5, 2004 05:52PM)
The Penguin silks are nice white silks. You certainly *can* do the routine with them. They are not made from parachute nylon. They feel like they could last for maybe a couple of years with regular use.

The Palmer Magic "silks" are indeed parachute nylon and are obviously less likely to run, bunch, or become maimed by curious spectators. They feel like they could last for fifty years with care. Comparing the two side-by-side yields obvious differences in feel.

I know, Palmer's set is much more expensive. But you do get what you pay for. That being said, I obviously paid for both.
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Dec 13, 2004 09:00PM)
Wow,

I just found this thread and have had a GREAT laugh.

Tony Slydini was a GREAT magician, the best.

Mr. Slydini did not "invent" this trick, as a matter of fact his version is so suited to HIS physical personality most people would look like idiots attempting to duplicate it.

That being said, you might want to check out the routine that inspired Mr. Slydyni. A routine created by one of the greatest buskers the world had ever known, and magic historians have completely forgotten. A wild mannered English gentleman by the name of Charlie Edwards. The routine can be found in Lewis Ganson's Routined Manipulation Finale on page 83 under "Charlie Edward's Dissolving Knots".

For contemporary performers in my opinion this routine is far Superior to Mr. Slydini's. The reason being, we are not Slydini. Mr. Edwards had more of a natural performing style. Where Mr. Slydini's physical style was natural for Mr. Slydini, most of us mere mortals can not sell the physical gesticulations.

If you had this book on your shelf and didn't know about this trick in it I am required to say, "Shame on you!" courtesy of Mr. Mark Lewis. He pointed the routine out to me about a year ago and I felt like a complete idiot. I had the book on my bookshelf and had never seen the routine because I had no idea who "Charlie Edwards" was. So, shame on me too, dropped from a great height.

For the clincher do you all know that the Slydini paper balls trick was invented by Blackstone Sr.?

It is amazing how the history gets re-written. About a year ago I read a post about Michael Ammar's Triumph trick.

Yeesh....

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: mplegare (Jan 4, 2005 05:44PM)
... for that matter, you might want to check out Ron Bauer's "Left Handed Handkerchief" booklet for a significantly easier to tie and less suspicious-looking s**p k**t as part of his handling of Charlie Miller's "Seven Cornered Hank". It works brilliantly for suddenly dissolving knots.


And of course, op cit Tarbell (which volume again?) for dissolving knots etc.
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Jan 7, 2005 08:35AM)
Tobias,

The Charlie Miller handling for the Seven corner Hank is fantastic. Billy McComb also has some touches worth consideration. Mr. Mccomb's presentation is fantastic as well. I'm pretty sure the whole mess is in his book "25 Years Wiser" and on the "Billy McComb Greater Magic Presents" video from Steven's.

It is a great trick, and even better very few people do it.

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: mplegare (Jan 7, 2005 04:18PM)
Danny - For something which seems so innocuous in print, it *really* gets an amazing response from people. I'll look up McComb's handling when I have a little more cash (read: when season starts again :D)

Frankly, I blame Messers Miller and Bauer for making me pull my tuxedo pocket squares out of storage. Darn them! Darn them to heck!

Posted: Jan 7, 2005 5:26pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Getting back to the actual topic - got the Penguin Silks in the mail. They're... ok. Nylon, clearly, with a flat hem rather than the rolled hem I have in the aforementioned pocket squares (Men's Wearhouse, about $7 for an 18" square in a wide variety of colors). I notice that the nylon 'binds' faster and harder than silk when making the s**p k**ts, so that might be a concern if you're used to being all macho tying them together - especially in something like the Seven Cornered Hank where you want things to work more one-handedly than in a Slydini-like routine.

My evaluation: They're good 'knockaround's - nylon is durable and is easier to keep 'white' than white silk, so if you're working in semi-toxic environments where keeping your stuff clean is a challenge, that's something to consider. My chief concern right now is the hems. In the video you'll see that the instructor's silks have already begun to fray a bit at the ends, but that may be indicative of how much muscle he's using in some phases of the routine.
Message: Posted by: wally (Jun 21, 2005 05:28AM)
I have gotten the Bill Malone DVD on Sly Silks. But I wish I had info on Tony Clark's traveling knot. Have I got to buy Tony's DVD to know? I will trade Jeff McBride's vol 1 DVD on world class manipulation. I live in UK.
Message: Posted by: John C (Jun 21, 2005 07:54AM)
[quote]
On 2004-09-03 02:17, Daniel Faith wrote:
Your tugging on the wrong ends and it's not breaking loose the knot.
Pay attention to the thread.
Also note wheather the person tied a square or granny knot.
[/quote]

I find that no matter which kind of know I tie (granny or square) as long as I pull on the right ends it upsets the knot. Do you all find this as well?

I perfrom the effect and that's the way it works for me. I don't see any difference in the granny or square knot as long as the correct ends are tightened.

John

[quote]
On 2005-01-04 18:44, mplegare wrote:
... for that matter, you might want to check out Ron Bauer's "Left Handed Handkerchief" booklet for a significantly easier to tie and less suspicious-looking s**p k**t as part of his handling of Charlie Miller's "Seven Cornered Hank". It works brilliantly for suddenly dissolving knots.


And of course, op cit Tarbell (which volume again?) for dissolving knots etc.
[/quote]

The left handed hank is also a great walkaround effect. I use it all the time and as it's silly it still fools 'em.

John
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jun 25, 2005 01:23PM)
Hey, I'm left handed. Tell me more about this effect.

There's also the routine... 4 hanks and a knot? or whatever it's called.

Does anyone use that one? I'm looking for a nice colorful silks effect
for strolling, the street, etc.

Thanks,
Frank
Message: Posted by: John C (Jun 25, 2005 08:16PM)
4 squares and a knot is a simple two silk sympathetic silk routine. It comes from Ron Bauer and has patter. I don't use it I use the Billy Bishop 3 silk routine. It's a classic.

Left handed silk is a funny bit with one silk you tell the story about a left handed silk. The knot never works tied the wrong way. It's cool. Also Ron Bauer.

Worth buying.

JC
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Mar 12, 2007 04:52AM)
Dick Barry has a left handed hank bit of business which is hilarious.