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Topic: What about the 'Magicians Force' ?
Message: Posted by: bigchuck (Dec 15, 2004 10:11PM)
I have been into magic for a while but one thing I have avoided like the plague doing has been any effect in which a 'magician's force' is used; the method usually seems so blatantly obvious to me... but, if you need something selected from 3 possibilities this is one of the easiest & sure fire ways to go about it -- right?

Now, one out of every 3 times (if the odds are with you) you will have the opportunity to create a real miracle... but the other two times -- : So is it just me & my obsessively compulsive neuroses overthinking things, or are there any tips on presenting this, subtleties you might use, or other substitute forces that accomplish the same thing that will help ease my worried mind?

A couple routines in particular that have struck me as being good possibilities for discussion are the 'using the one ahead' mentalism routine and the bill in lemon routine from Mark Wilsons book.

PM me if you don't want to reveal too much detail here.
Message: Posted by: rtgreen (Dec 15, 2004 10:56PM)
Actually, to do a good magician's choice takes a lot of thought. It's official name is equivoce and if it is done correctly, it seems perfectly natural. Do a search on the word equivoce and you will find a lot of info.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me.

Good luck,
Message: Posted by: irossall (Dec 16, 2004 05:37AM)
I compare the "Magician's Choice" with the TT. If used properly it seems very natural to the spectator's and the obvious in not obvious and the fact that the choice was not really theirs does not occur to them. This is a classic example of the proper use of psychology. Just my $0.02 worth.
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: Muddy (Dec 16, 2004 06:23AM)
Annemann presents some good ideas in Practical Mental Magic ... I think he might have also published a book on nothing but forces ...
Message: Posted by: Mustang (Dec 16, 2004 06:37AM)
The magician's force is anything but obvious if done correctly. As said above... to do it properly takes a LOT of thought. However, you mention doing it with three items, there is a surefire three way force which never fails which you should learn, PM me I'll share it with you (if you don't already know it). It's when you get to 4+ items that are fun :) this requires patter and timing.

However, equivoce can be a very subtle ingenious thing, if you know anyone who owns Paul Harris' "The Only One" have a look at the equivoce in that and see how you can make it so subtle you would have been fooled by it.

Lastly... the piece de resistance... if you are looking for some serious literature on magicians choice, check out "The Mind and Magic of David Berglas." This is a very comprehensive description on timing, patter, effects to do with the choice, and how to guarantee the choice of an item out of up to 20 items! The book will be quite hard to get hold of now since there were only 1000 published worldwide, however, if you are part of a club, or have a friend who collects books, they should have one (because it's also quite a pricey book - but worth every penny).
Message: Posted by: Frank Tougas (Dec 16, 2004 09:06AM)
Question #1. The force would not have been around so long if it didn't work well. Some people have made masterpieces from it so don't jufge it too quickly. Remember once we know the secret everything looks blatantly obvious. The criss Cross force still makes me guilty but I use it in some effects because depending upon how you use it it can be a killer.

Question #2. Obbsessive-Compulsive and neurotic. If I answered that I'd have to charge you. :)

Frank Tougas
Message: Posted by: saxmangeoff (Dec 16, 2004 03:02PM)
Some references have already been mentioned, but Henning Nelms has a bit to say about this in "Magic and Showmanship." He also explains why he thinks a choice of 3 is better than a choice of 2.

Message: Posted by: bigchuck (Dec 17, 2004 07:02AM)
Well thanks for the advice -- I'll check out some of the sources mentioned, and have a closer look at the wording and try and get a feel for the timing that's been successfully used.

I guess the only way to really test it (as usual) is to just do it...
Message: Posted by: zur (Dec 17, 2004 12:15PM)
A concept of three outs is extremely effective. As long as the lay person has never seen the effect, they will be amazed at the out you select since it will seem against the odds that you could predict their choice.
Message: Posted by: BerkleyJL (Dec 17, 2004 01:42PM)
3 ways out, while effective, is not the same as equivoce. That's one way out...explained depending upon the spectator's "selections" during the process.
Message: Posted by: MattWayne (Dec 22, 2004 10:45AM)
"you need to do it- to see if it works!" That's the best advice a local magician gave me. Either way you if you flub the move you always have a key card, and can perform another effect. Keep in touch...