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Topic: A New Idea
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 17, 2004 07:41PM)
Here is an idea I am batting around for an "impromptu" effect. You know when you are in checkout lines at Wal-Mart, K-Mart,Target or some similar store and they have decks of cards in the checkout line? Here is something I am putting together. Maybe it has been done before....maybe not.

When checking out, grab one of the decks and make sure it is the last item you pay for. Tell the cashier to leave the cards out of the bag. After paying, ask them to think of a card and commit it to memory. Open the cards and spread through them. One card is reversed in the new deck. It is turned over to be their thought of card! YIKES!!! I know, I know.... another invisible deck routine, but I think this would be a killer routine. Especially if the cards come in a pack of two. One red, and one blue. Have them pick a deck. No force. Then go into the routine. What do you guys think of this? Of course their will need to be some careful planning and set up, but that is just part of the fun. And for the naysayers out there, nothing is impossible. There is always a way to turn an impossibility into a probability. If you guys have any ideas on how to make the effect stronger, or would like to discuss this effect in detail, please elaborate.

Phil
Message: Posted by: sanju (Dec 17, 2004 07:49PM)
WOW! this is a great idea to hold up lines in supermarkets, annoy a cashier AND other customers all at the same time! You should copyright and publish the idea, before someone else does!
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 17, 2004 07:57PM)
I figured someone would post something like this. Like I stated above, this needs CAREFUL PLANNING AND SETUP! As for annoying customers, the cashier and holding up the line, I don't think the customers would mind all that much to see something so "impossible". I have done magic in checkout lines several times and the cashiers and customers loved it. Please no more sarcasm. This is just an idea I was batting around. I didn't say I would perform it for sure, but I might. It is just one of those things that would look totally impossible. And who knows? The cashier might be having a bad day and something like this just might cheer them up a little. Oh well.
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Dec 17, 2004 08:26PM)
If the casher is a nice girl worth get to become friend, it is worth pay extra money for your own ID installed secretly in the package.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: gimpy (Dec 17, 2004 09:26PM)
I think that this is a good idea, you could use shuttle passes once you open the decks whichever it may be and shuttle pass the invisible deck, this is the only thing that I can think of but I'm sure it could work
Message: Posted by: Laban (Dec 17, 2004 09:37PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 20:49, sanju wrote:
WOW! this is a great idea to hold up lines in supermarkets, annoy a cashier AND other customers all at the same time! You should copyright and publish the idea, before someone else does!
[/quote]

Lol, exactly what I thought

and in the end, he would probably be told to pay for the deck as well. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 17, 2004 09:42PM)
Man.... don't these people read these posts? The second paragraph states paying for the cards. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Dec 17, 2004 09:58PM)
Are you in a regular line-up or a 10 items or less line-up?


A.
Message: Posted by: Laban (Dec 17, 2004 10:05PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 22:42, Phil Thomas wrote:
Man.... don't these people read these posts? The second paragraph states paying for the cards. :lol:
[/quote]

Well now I really don't see the point at that. It's like performing in front of a spectator and in the end reaching for your wallet and paying him.
Is this supposed to be some kind of a gag?

excuse me for a second while I laugh my ass off. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Muddy (Dec 17, 2004 10:22PM)
Soounds like a great idea to me! The impact on the cashier would be huge. Here's an a furtherance of your idea that's sure to get me flamed :) would take some nerve though :

This could be a good impromptu way to have some fun with someone else in line while waiting ... especially when the packs are on the checkout aisle display. Youd have to not mind cracking it open before paying (you would pay when its your turn of course), and of course if you caught security's eye you could be in for a huge embarassment. :)
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 17, 2004 10:56PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 23:05, Laban wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 22:42, Phil Thomas wrote:
Man.... don't these people read these posts? The second paragraph states paying for the cards. :lol:
[/quote]

Well now I really don't see the point at that. It's like performing in front of a spectator and in the end reaching for your wallet and paying him.
Is this supposed to be some kind of a gag?

excuse me for a second while I laugh my ass off. :rotf:
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmm. Let's think about this one shall we? The idea is to be doing an impossible trick with a new deck of cards that you just bought. That way, you can't be accused of using a "setup" deck. It makes the effect even more impossible as it looks like there is no possible way for the cards to be "tampered" with. The logic is simple people. Take some time to think about it. I'm sure it will come to you. New decks cost about $2.00 anyway. Such a small cost to pay for such a powerful effect.
Message: Posted by: lil_magic (Dec 17, 2004 11:25PM)
I seen a trick somewhere that reminds me of Phil's idea. It's where you purchase a pack of cards and a pack of basball or yugio cards. The cashier selects and signs a card from the playing cards and it is replaced in the deck. Upon spreading the cards a baseball card is seen in the middle of the deck. Seeing this you open the pack of baseball cards and a playing card is seen in the pack. The baseball card is used to flip over the playing card to prove no funny moves and the signed card is seen. If you guys are interested and if I'm allowed I will post the method.
Message: Posted by: Pete W. (Dec 17, 2004 11:33PM)
I agree....a powerful effect....it is sure to leave a lasting impression. But not of you as a magician; but instead of a guy who does tricks for people who don't wish to see them.
I'm sorry....the idea is really a good one. But NOT in a check-out lane. How about having someone else buy the cards (you can give them the money) and then performing a "miracle" for them in the snack area or outside?
Message: Posted by: JoshEarp (Dec 17, 2004 11:51PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 23:56, Phil Thomas wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 23:05, Laban wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-17 22:42, Phil Thomas wrote:
Man.... don't these people read these posts? The second paragraph states paying for the cards. :lol:
[/quote]

Well now I really don't see the point at that. It's like performing in front of a spectator and in the end reaching for your wallet and paying him.
Is this supposed to be some kind of a gag?

excuse me for a second while I laugh my ass off. :rotf:
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmm. Let's think about this one shall we? The idea is to be doing an impossible trick with a new deck of cards that you just bought. That way, you can't be accused of using a "setup" deck. It makes the effect even more impossible as it looks like there is no possible way for the cards to be "tampered" with. The logic is simple people. Take some time to think about it. I'm sure it will come to you. New decks cost about $2.00 anyway. Such a small cost to pay for such a powerful effect.
[/quote]

Not only that, but if your going to pick up a new pack of cards, what a great oppritunity?
Message: Posted by: sanju (Dec 18, 2004 12:19AM)
Man, I really hope none of you are serious... Phil, no offense but you WILL end up being remembered by the management and clientele as the "idiot who thinks hes david blaine".
Seriously, once you get a tv special itd be a cool idea. But right now its a pretty dumb one. sorry.
Message: Posted by: Daegs (Dec 18, 2004 02:33AM)
This highlights the difference between a pro who thinks "I am going to go out and entertain others" and the beginner who thinks "I'm going to go show as many random people my tricks, because *everyone* wants to see magic when they aren't expecting it, right?".


Though, I'll admit this might look good on a TV special....

Too bad life isn't a TV special..
Message: Posted by: Muddy (Dec 18, 2004 03:21AM)
I don't think phil was talking about just randomly doing this to the first cashier that he came across. I can really see this going off well if the spectator and timing are right. Obviously you wouldnt do it if it didn't "feel" right. Certainly not a dumb idea by any means ...
Message: Posted by: Laban (Dec 18, 2004 06:43AM)
Lay-people don't know how to appreciate you openeing a "new deck" and showing the "invisible deck" effect.
They'll react just as well to you taking a deck out of your pockect and perform a DL (yes just a plain DL where you flip a card, then it changes when you flip it again). Now before you all snap at me - yes, I know magic is a performing art that sould be evolving and producing new effects all the time.
But due to the circumstances and the situation you described...it's just not worth it (and it sounds a bit silly too).
Although if I would go your way, I'd really take a new deck and perform the Tarquins Real Invisible Deck.
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Dec 18, 2004 07:47AM)
You won't be able pass off an invisible deck as a new deck. If you need to spread to near the bottom it will be obvious that there are only 13 spades and 13 diamonds (or whatever). It will be completly obvious that there's something strange about this deck with only 26 cards in it.

On the other hand, you might be able to reverse one of the jokers near the center and spread FU. You'll know exactly where the named card is in the deck and could run it under the spread ... The spec will note that the named card is not in position and that there is a reversed card... Would be cool if the reversed card were in the proper position...

Mike
Message: Posted by: Muddy (Dec 18, 2004 08:03AM)
Good point Mike,

Youd have to customize the ID by rearranging to look like a new deck (solves the order problem) ... then spread just enough to get to the turned over card (solves the 26 card problem)... the new arrangement would even make it easier ...
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 18, 2004 08:33AM)
You can not be serious! There is a time and place for everything, and that is not the time or the place to do a card trick, not unless you have a death wish. The women is these queues turn into lynch mobs if the check out girl is slow, what they would do to you I dread to think.

Merry Christmas

Tommy
Message: Posted by: Muddy (Dec 18, 2004 08:44AM)
Of course you'd be an idiot to hold a line of people up ... I don't think anyone would argue with that.... you just wouldnt do it in that situation ... nor would you do it for a grouchy cashier ... nor would you do it if didn't fit your personality ... etc etc etc

I say if your comfortable with the situation and it feels right to you then go for it.

One thing is probable ... if you do get burned you probably wont be trying it again .. :)
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Dec 18, 2004 08:38PM)
If ID can't be used, you can use Brain Wave deck with same color backs.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 21, 2004 04:52PM)
WOW. What a bunch of naysayers. Give a guy some credit. I did state that this would take CAREFUL planning and setup. As for holding up checkout lines, if the line is busy, common sense would say pass this up and go back during a less busy time. I'm sick of catching a bunch of sh** about this idea. As for comparing me to David Blaine, I like the guy, but I don't nor will I ever try to be like him. I have my own performing style, and as was mentioned above, I am not some new beginner trying to impress someone with a quick trick. The setup and planning alone for this routine is much too advanced for a beginner. Honestly, the people I am catching the most hell from here are the ones who are jealous that they didn't think of it first. I don't see the harm in performing for a total stranger. If the setup is complete and the time and atmosphere is right, then and only then would I attempt this. If I sense the time is WAY wrong, like the line being too long, grumpy cashier and or waiting customers, then of course I would not perform the effect.

I am getting the impression that some of you people who are putting this idea down have an "I am much better than you" persona and "all ideas are dumb except mine" mentality. For those of you who have supported this idea, I thank you. You know who you are. Isn't our art about entertaining people and bringing a sense of wonder and amazement to those around us? Give a guy some credit and don't make judgements until you understand the complete facts. I've ranted long enough for now, but I am tired of getting my feathers ruffled here when I have had such a good time thus far. It just seems like everyone is turning on me now and I don't appriciate it. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Kwanza, New Year........oh heck.......Happy Holidays to all!

Phil
Message: Posted by: Cpontz (Dec 21, 2004 05:28PM)
Phil:

I once heard Jeff McBride say that if your are going to be a magician, you should be one 24/7. He then demonstrated a trick with a silk and a thumbtip that he did for the pizza delivery person. I see no difference with your idea. If there is no line and the checkout person is just waiting for customers, it could be really appreciated.
Message: Posted by: TaylorTheGreat (Dec 21, 2004 09:29PM)
I think the idea's great!

but,

I wouldn't do it to the cashier. I'd have somee people think of a card and write it down, then I'd send them to buy the cards, switch it for a brainwave pack, and there you go. SHAZAM!

Cardmagic4ever
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Dec 21, 2004 09:45PM)
Clever. Not a bad idea at all. I was actually considering this method too. ;)
Message: Posted by: sanju (Dec 21, 2004 09:55PM)
Phil, I never said I was better than you or anything like that. its just such a silly idea, why go through so much preperation JUST to present the invisible deck? for one single performance? Best case scenario, your not going to impress anyone but the cashier, and then what? the only thing this presentation does is stop the spectator from asking to inspect the deck. but if you must go through with this and theres no stopping you, just open the deck, give it a quick false shuffle, and boom you have a new deck order stack ready for you to do whatever youd like.
Message: Posted by: Satori (Dec 21, 2004 11:02PM)
Sanju, I think maybe you should remember that he could hand out his business card to anyone who sees this effect. Once the card is produced from the deck do a snap change into your business card. Hand the business card to the cashier or whomever you are performing the effect for and thank them and go about your business.

Now, when that person needs an entertainer or they have a friend who does, whatever, Phil will be the first person they think of.

Kudos on the creativity Phil.

S.
Message: Posted by: Doc Pepper (Sep 29, 2005 05:56AM)
Well, guess I'll wade into this one... First, I think your idea is cool. Go for it. Second, why do it at all???? - BECAUSE it will work FOR you.

My wife and I go into the little McDonalds located in our `Wally World'. We will be sitting at our table and I will do a few `little `tricks' for her while we are enjoying a coke (or ....). People will get to watching and then I move around in my chair to make contacts. I pickup jobs AND have even been sent a free ice cream cone by the workers...

As for doing your `trick' in the checkout line -- I do mine while standing in line at the bank.. Gets a neat reaction and the cashiers ALL enjoy it.. I now do all the bank parties...

Just my 2 cents .. doc
Message: Posted by: Logan (Sep 29, 2005 06:16AM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-21 22:55, sanju wrote:
Phil, I never said I was better than you or anything like that. its just such a silly idea, why go through so much preperation JUST to present the invisible deck? for one single performance?

[/quote]

Sanju,

No offence buddy but I suggest you read up on Max Malini and how long he took to set up and how long he WAITED for the right time JUST to reveal a selected card. In his spectator's eyes, he could do anything and he went places because of that. Worth it? Depends on where you want to go.

Phil,

Your idea is GOOD. But the placement could be better.

How about this? You plan a meeting with a potential client at a Café/Restaurant opposite a shopping mart. You set up before the meeting and when he asks you to show him something, hand him a 5 dollar bill and instruct him to walk across the street into the shopping mart...

This way, you impress someone who could potentially put extra dough in your pockets! Plus, this may only be the one trick you need to do to impress him/her, unless of course he/she is a magic junkie!

Don't take what some members say too harshly, if they cannot see the beauty in your idea, it's their loss. Most of the time our ideas will start out small and will probably look very dumb, and is extremely laughable to those who don't share your vision.

But it takes time, experimentation and patience for your idea to grow and become a masterpiece. And when that happens, I doubt anyone will be laughing.
Message: Posted by: TomKMagic (Sep 29, 2005 06:51AM)
Phil,

Like you said many, many times, you would use careful planning. I think it's a fine idea. Of course, everyone should understand that you probably wouldn't do this one during Christmas rush when the lanes are overloaded. It's obvious you would wait until there are no other customers.

Doc Pepper,
I also have performed at the bank, with all 10 security cameras on me. It's creepy, but a cool feeling to know that they still can't catch the secret. And of course, I was the only customer in there, so there was no other customers to annoy by taking up their time.

TomK
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Sep 29, 2005 08:54AM)
For that special occasion: Buy a deck. Take it home, and open it up carefully at the bottom. Replace the deck with a gaffed, set-up, or marked deck, and reseal the cellophane. Mark the case somehow so you can recognize it later. Go back to the store and replace the deck on the rack where it won't get sold right away. Take your friend or client into the store, purchase the deck again, and perform a miracle. It may have been Malini (can't remember) who did this at a drug store just to fool his fellow magician friends. I'm sure someone knows the real story.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Sep 29, 2005 10:31AM)
Ah... from a hypothesizing newbie who probably just read his first OLD book on magic to a discussion of things worth doing. Good.

Let's say you have learned how to orchestrate an "impromptu miracle" and are now looking at method/effect trade offs.

Step one is decide on the people, the place and what theatrical moment you desire.

What specifically would it mean to THEM if you were able to magically reverse a named card in a new sealed deck? The theatrical considerations are far more important than the mechanics.
Message: Posted by: Andrei (Sep 29, 2005 11:45AM)
Also:
You show them a miracle. You can do miracles. You then mildly pick up your bag of groceries and walk home. It doesn't add up.

Andrei
Message: Posted by: sullivanl (Sep 29, 2005 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2005-09-29 07:16, Logan wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-21 22:55, sanju wrote:
Phil, I never said I was better than you or anything like that. its just such a silly idea, why go through so much preperation JUST to present the invisible deck? for one single performance?

[/quote]

Dude, if the cashier is a hottie... DO IT. One trick will save you countless hours of the 'ol wine and dine routine. Strictly from a utlitarian standpoint this makes it makes a lot of sense. Cheers.
Message: Posted by: elmago (Sep 29, 2005 02:26PM)
Man, I used to think think way too. The world is my stage. Then I started doing magic for a living. Private parties and working restaurants 5-6 nights a week. After all this, I learn to appreciate the appropriatness of when to perform magic.

To the original poster, do you perform a lot? Are you lacking palces to perform? I mean this seriously and I'd be surprised to hear that you do. It is not a put down in a anyway. I am trying to make a point.

It is not a bad idea for a TV show David Blaine or Chris Angel style. That is the only way I could see making this worth the effort for the amount of work you are going to do for this one trick that no one will see where the conditions have to be just right.

I mean, do you wait for the line to dwindle down and "wait two weeks if you have to" for the perfect oppertunity? That would look too suspicious to secruity. What is it that you hope to get out of it? Just a chance to perform? I ask these questions in case you have not asked yourself these question. My favorite line in the movie Jurasic Park is when Jeff Goldblum says in response to the making of dinosaurs: "You spent so much time trying to figure out HOW to make them that you never stopped to ask yourself if you SHOULD".

This is the ultimate test. What if you were in line watching a guy do the same thing. What would you think of him? Is he brilliant or just holding up the line? How would that look? Or are you mad that he beat you to it first?

Not a bad way of thinking, just not practical. I like Logan's idea on this principle. That is practical.

Miguel Rangel

PS. Sell this idea to David Blaine or Chris Angel. Spending 2 dollars on a deck of cards aint bad when millions of people are watching.
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Sep 29, 2005 09:55PM)
Man...It's been ages since I posted this. I almost forgot about it. Thanks to all who have supported the idea. If you are curious, I have performed this since posting...in fact, I have done it twice with AMAZING reactions. The first time was during a midnight stop at Wal-Mart, there were no other customers in line, when I payed for the cards, I went into the routine before leaving. The cashier FREAKED out. She just kept mumbling that there is no possible way. I thanked her for her time and bid her a good night. She thanked me for brigtening up her night as she was having a rough night. It's those moments that I live for. I appriciate all the ideas that you all have given me. I may do this again in the near future...when the time is right. Elmago, to answer your question, no, I don't perform all the time. I am a hobbyist. I have a full time regular job that keeps me quite busy, but it also gives me time to think up routines like these and others that I have not yet posted and kept to myself. Thanks to everyone who gave me pointers and even those who didn't. Needless to say, I have pulled it off and security didn't care (I cleared it first) and those who witnessed it were completely dumbfounded. Those are the moments I live for when I do get the chance to perform, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

:cheers:

Phil
Message: Posted by: Alex Linian (Sep 29, 2005 10:59PM)
If you get a job at a restaurant you will get the moments you live for more often.

By the way, the name of the thread was "A New Idea".

I've seen this before.
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Sep 29, 2005 11:01PM)
[quote]
On 2005-09-29 23:59, Alex Linian wrote:
If you get a job at a restaurant you will get the moments you live for more often.

[/quote]


I had a job in a restaurant, but had to give it up in order to take my new full time job as a TV engineer. I am making more money now than I was in the restaurant, but I look to go back to it part-time on the weekends. I know what you mean. The children really love it.

[quote]
On 2005-09-30 00:00, Alex Linian wrote:
By the way, the name of the thread was "A New Idea".

I've seen this before.
[/quote]

Just because you have seen it before does not mean that it is not new to others. I have not seen it or even heard of it being performed before, so I acted on a whim... and I am glad I did. It was well worth the setup and permission, but not worthy of everyday performance.
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Sep 29, 2005 11:42PM)
There seems to be too conflicting thoughts. the first is that it trivalizes magic by making it seem everyday and mundane.

I say BS.

If you think, for a second, that people will not go home talking about the described trick, if presented correctly, then you havent been doing magic long.

I would buy the deck, switch it for the brainwave or id (more on id in a sec) and then turn to my friend and say something like, " you were asking me what I used to win the US slieght of hand competion. Let me show you"

Now people should be interested.

ask her to think of a card, unrap the "new" pack, and show there is a reveresd card. show its the right one. BAM.

as far as the ID goes, I think its worth the risk to take a chance with people not noticing that the cards arnt in new card order.

theyll be focusing on the face down card, and I don't think itll matter.

but if its an issue, use a brainwave.

that was a good suggestion.

Showing a trick to a friend but asking a stranger to help is a good ploy. Does it trivalize magic? not if your good...