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Topic: Dice Stacking Cups Questions
Message: Posted by: what (Dec 29, 2004 11:26AM)
I received the Jim Zachary Video for Christmas and have had a good time getting the dice to stack the past few days. I made a dice cup out of a 2.5 inch pvc pipe and lined it with duct tape. I have a couple questions about cups.

When learning, what diameter and surface of cup will help you develop the most consistent technique?

When performing, what diameter and surface of cup will be easiest to use?

Thanks,

Mike
Message: Posted by: rikbrooks (Dec 29, 2004 11:32AM)
I'd like to see a demo of dice stacking. I've heard a lot about it lately and frankly can't see the attraction. Is there anywhere that I can see someone doing this so that I can see what I'm missing?
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Dec 29, 2004 12:09PM)
Rik,
Just think of it as a chop cup routine (or one cup routine) with dice but also adds the drama of "will they stack" at each phase. Here are some cool examples of some ideas...

When they stack, one die changes color and the original die ends up (you decide where) that was clearly empty before.

They almost stack but you hear them fall inside the cup. But when you lift the cup, they ARE stacked.

Jumbo Die Loads, Colorful Dice

The stack of dice is taller than the cup.

You shake up the dice, stack them, and predict which
number is on top of the stack.

It's really a one cup routine done with dice.
It's fun.

I love it.
I PM'd you.
Frank
Message: Posted by: davidmagic (Dec 29, 2004 12:20PM)
For straight up dice stacking, get the JIm Zachary video (Jim Zee). He stacks not only 4 or 5 dice in a cup,. but 9, and 10 and 14. He can also unstack them one at a time, perfectly catching each individual die with the cup as it swings through the air. The attraction is it is noisy and when you get into the large numbers, quite impressive. I get a great reaction with a 9 or 10 dice stack. I use Jim's large cup for that, by the way. I also use his cut dice to do a quick encore where the half-dice stack end-on-end, which looks various precarious and quite difficult. While many folks have great routines that combine magic with the dice stacking, it can stand on its own as a feat of feat. (or is that "foot of juggling"?). Whether it stands on its own or not as good entertainment is most likely based on the skill level and difficulty perceived by the audience. Kinda like the difference between juggling three balls versus juggling 6 balls or 3 knives.
Message: Posted by: tony4938 (Dec 29, 2004 02:31PM)
I watched Paul Zenon on TV over Christmas and he did a quick dice stacking effect, where he used ice cubes and a cocktail shaker, once he stacked the cubes he displayed the cocktail shaker was full with a large block of ice to match the shakers shape, if you know what I mean.

Anyway it was just different which is why it appeals to people.

Cheers
Tony
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Dec 29, 2004 02:47PM)
Dice stacking is interesting and I have seen it most often done on a bar for bar magic. It is more of a juggling move than a magic move routine unless the magician puts some magic in it.

Jim Ryan did a great routine and had a thing where he loaded on the off beat. Eddie Fecter of the FFFF had a great routine but the one I remember most is the routine Don Alan did.

He had a plastic cutting board that he used to stack dice on that he carried around with him to do the effect. This way he could do it at any shows no matter what table or table covering...

If anyone likes dice magic I recomend Crandels book and Shoot the works by Ed Marlo... And also there are some great dice cheating moves on the L and L Ross Bertram video's...

I hope this helps...
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Dec 29, 2004 03:03PM)
Yes, it does help Bish. I've been wanting to get Marlo's "shoot the works" but keep forgetting. Thanks for the reminder.

Frank
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Dec 29, 2004 04:39PM)
The first person I ever saw stack dice was Don Alan. Then years later Mike Rogers.
Mike had more of a routine than Don did (at least in the foggy memory) with a good ending. Mike's routine possessed me to buy a stacking set from him.
Tom
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Dec 29, 2004 05:03PM)
I personally consider dice stacking in and of itself to be juggling versus magic, but as others have said, magic can be added.

Del Ray had a great dice stacking routine where a lot of magic happened, including naming the number that would be showing on the top die of the stack before he lifted the cup, and making all of the dice vanish. (Del Ray's other non-stack-related work with dice was incredible as well.)

Rick Jonsson had an interesting dice stacking routine that he published in the late 70's. It involved the use of an empty Brut Deordorant container as the die stacking cup, and ended with the magician placing the four dice in the container, pushing in the bottom part that you'd normally push in to make the deodorant emerge, and turning the four dice into one jumbo die by the use of "brute" force.

Frank, don't you sell leather dice cups?

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Dec 29, 2004 05:17PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-29 18:03, Larry Davidson wrote:

Frank, don't you sell leather dice cups?

Larry D.
[/quote]

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot :)
Message: Posted by: David French (Dec 29, 2004 08:01PM)
I have been opening my formal close up shows with dice stacking for a while. It also will attract a crowd at a cocktail party as well. I use the six high cup that Jim Zackary sells. It is perfect. I would buy a couple from him, you never know when he will stop producing them.

David
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Dec 29, 2004 09:56PM)
I'm going to get a Porper Dice Cup next week.
Message: Posted by: David French (Dec 30, 2004 08:22AM)
Hi Pete,

Just curious, other than the fine craftsmanship of the Porper line, what is the advantage to his cup? I know that Jim Z's cup is "ribbed" inside which helps to line up the stack when doing five or six high. My expereince is that if you are doing only a four high stack, the interior is not as much an issue.

thanks,

David
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Dec 31, 2004 08:02PM)
I don't know. I have never used a ribbed cup. I just know Joe only has a coupld left, I like the "look" and he may not make any more for a looooooooooong time.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Jan 1, 2005 10:23AM)
I think the Zack cup is too heavy for me. I have a nice lightweight leather cup that Sir Pete gave me years ago to get started stacking and it's wonderful. Small and holds four .75 perfectly with a 1.25 final. I need to get one of Frank's leather cups.

-=tabman
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 9, 2005 12:49AM)
The cup and dice from a regular Yahtzee game work well for stacking.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 9, 2005 12:53AM)
Mota,
That's what I'm currently using for practice. My Yahtzee cup is a awful blue plastic so I can't imagine being seen in public with it. I now have Frank Starsini's gorgeous black/red leather dice cup but am having trouble transitioning from a slick interior to the more "grippy" leather one. If anyone has any tips I'd love to hear them.
Message: Posted by: tabman (Jan 9, 2005 11:52AM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-29 12:26, what wrote: I made a dice cup out of a 2.5 inch pvc pipe and lined it with duct tape.
[/quote]

Now that's a cool idea and one that Amazing Johnathan would like for sure but why the duct tape lining???

-=tabman
Message: Posted by: NickJegor (Jan 9, 2005 04:36PM)
You could find some Dice staking cups in Magic Shops.
They are not so expensive
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 10, 2005 12:35PM)
Dave, you might want to just try swinging with a little more (or a little less) velocity and see if that changes anything.

Probably something subtle will do the trick. And once you get it,
throw that plastic cup away and never go back.

Don't even play Yahtzee anymore. :)
Message: Posted by: what (Jan 10, 2005 04:43PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-09 12:52, tabman wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-12-29 12:26, what wrote: I made a dice cup out of a 2.5 inch pvc pipe and lined it with duct tape.
[/quote]

Now that's a cool idea and one that Amazing Johnathan would like for sure but why the duct tape lining???

-=tabman

[/quote]

I actually made 2 cups, one lined with duct tape and 1 not lined. I wanted to see if it was easier to learn with a slick interior, or one with more resistance. I was able to stack with both cups, but prefer the slick (not lined with duct tape) one.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Jim Morton (Jan 10, 2005 05:36PM)
[quote]
On 2004-12-29 12:32, rikbrooks wrote:
I'd like to see a demo of dice stacking. I've heard a lot about it lately and frankly can't see the attraction. Is there anywhere that I can see someone doing this so that I can see what I'm missing?
[/quote]

There is a pretty cool example of dice stacking in the Hong Kong film "God of Gamblers." The film stars Chow Yun Fat, before he went to Hollywood.

Jim
Message: Posted by: tabman (Jan 10, 2005 09:04PM)
[quote] what wrote:

I actually made 2 cups, one lined with duct tape and 1 not lined. I wanted to see if it was easier to learn with a slick interior, or one with more resistance. I was able to stack with both cups, but prefer the slick (not lined with duct tape) one.

[/quote]

Thanks for letting us know. I like a slick cup but you never know what you don't know unless you ask.

Best,

-=tabman
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 11, 2005 09:42PM)
I have also used a straight-sided beer glass and the bar dice for stacking. Though the glass is clear it is moving so that isn't an issue. It is important to tell the bartender in advance the glass may break, though I have only had it crack, so there probably is no danger there.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 11, 2005 11:49PM)
Personally, I don't do any of the "magic" when I do dice stacking. I don't do the color switches of the dice and all that stuff, pureley stack, and decapitate. I don't use a very nice cup, but then again, I don't perform is for anyone but my friends/family. I stack and decapitate around 90% of the time, and that isn't goood enough for a performance type setting... I just use normal cups, from a dice stacking pack, no "special" cups.
I guess I am pretty new at this, ya?

Rmax Goodwin
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 12, 2005 01:59AM)
I have not started to decapitate yet. That's one of the harder things.
I like it though.
Paul Gertner's routine is not easy. It's in his book Steel and Silver.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 12, 2005 07:34PM)
30 years of stacking and I've never been able to do the "decapitation" move. But that's Ok, I can do other nice things. :kermit:
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 12, 2005 08:17PM)
Wow! Well, I can do it decently. I hope I have the right move though.

It is when you have a stack of four dice (I can only do four) and one by one you "pick off" the top die with the cup, and as you set the cup down again, the dice are stacked again. Is that right?

Rmax
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 13, 2005 12:36AM)
Yes, that is correct!