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Topic: Being Careful
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 7, 2005 04:06PM)
I have some questions about what I may be doing wrong with the three shell game ....but I don't want to tip the gaff, what do we do in this situation, just refer to publication that are relevant?
I learn quick I just don't know yet
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2005 06:13PM)
Send a PM to Glenn Bishop or Whit Haydn. They are experts.
Message: Posted by: KirkG (Jan 7, 2005 06:48PM)
Or post the requisite 50 posts and then go discuss it in the secret sessions section.

Kirk G
Message: Posted by: Eric Falconer (Jan 7, 2005 06:49PM)
Get 50 posts and go look in secret sessions. There might be an answer there. Or you could post this question there.

Eric Falconer
Houston TX

Kirk you beat me by one minute!!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2005 09:30PM)
Or, you could get the required 50 posts... Oh, someone has already said that.

Never mind.
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 8, 2005 04:10PM)
What if, rather than follow all your wonderful advice, I just got 50 posts and look in secret sessions? I really don't know why noone ever mentioned that.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jan 8, 2005 06:15PM)
There ya go! Or you could wait until you have 50 posts...

I have a PM waiting for you
Message: Posted by: Toasty (Jan 8, 2005 06:32PM)
Actually, I'm intrigued about a similar game: three card monte. Might Glenn Bishop or Whit Haydn be able to answer my questions on that too, or...i won't even bother suggesting getting the required 50 posts!!
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 8, 2005 06:35PM)
I always thought most of the general public knows the lowdown on the old shell game. In the last 25 years in England they've been knocking it out in kiddie magic sets with three plastic walnut halves and a bit of sponge for a pea. Have also seen it as the "novelty" in a christmas cracker.

Good luck with 50 posts. I did mine in less than 24 hours. There are so many interesting threads here!

Message: Posted by: Toasty (Jan 8, 2005 06:40PM)
Well-unfortunatly I think you beat me there already-but I would agree with the interesting threads. I don't think it's so much the basic routine and mechanics of the three shell game, but more the practical difficulties in carrying it out. At least, that's what I'm finding with three card monte.
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 8, 2005 06:50PM)
Darwin Ortiz had some very interesting thoughts on the Monte in his "Gambling Scams" book. He's moved into the magic field in more recent years so I wouldn't be suprised if he's got some good angles on the Monte in his recent work. Just guessing though!

Sorry, sightly off topic...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 8, 2005 07:05PM)
The interesting thing about the shell game and the three card monte is that as much as they have been exposed, the public still falls for them. I have seen Turks in Berlin and Budapest doing their version of the three shell game with the drawers from matchboxes. They still bilk the gilpins out of their spondulicks without any difficulty.

I heard from Harold Voit that some shell game workers came up for trial in Germany a while back, and that they got off. A magician demonstrated the method to the court. The judge claimed that there was still an element of chance. ELEMENT OF CHANCE, MY DUPJA! What part of the demonstration did this idiot sleep through?
Message: Posted by: Hank Miller (Jan 8, 2005 07:12PM)
I would venture to suggest that most laymen beleive that the way that the shell game is explained in the "kids" packs, can not be the way that "it" really is performed. "I would see that" -layman. So, the fact that it is explained (exposed) in a childs toy, in itself, saves the secret. If that makes sense. When the trick is combined with great patter and above average sleight of hand, it still fools.

-IMO :)
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 8, 2005 07:22PM)
You could be right there, Hank. That was the logic used by Vernon in justifying his "exposure" of the false transfer in C&B. He had mixed feelings about it, but in the end thought the double bluff angle came through. Especially when the clumsiness of the "exposure" is compared with the elegance of the actual vanishes.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 8, 2005 09:23PM)
There is a lot more to the shell game and three card Monte than most people think. It is interesting and I have been doing both since before 1975 and video of one of my first TV appearances is at my web site...

The way they do it in the streets is very different than the way a magician would do it as an effect...

On the streets they want the mark to see it and think that they know where it is. That way they will bet and play the game. The Monte man or shell guy lets them see flashes and what look like mistakes... This is important to get them to bet and play the game. And also let them think that they have it all over the Monte guy or shell guy...

That is a trap for the mark to fall into because what the mark doesn't know is that there is a mob and a script. What looks like an odds bet the best of two out of three is a game that there is no chance at winning...

People mistake odds and chances of winning often... The chance of winning because of the mob and the script are about - no chance... So the con man flashes and appears to have no skill so they will bet and get sucked in...

Very different from the magician who wants to fool and amaze the audience... And performs the effect as a feat of skill... As magicians we have to do the effect well and it must fool people because that is what is expected...

Two completely different outcomes of the game... But not so different...

The con man does it to get the money and the magician entertains and gets the money... I am glad I am the magician.

One more performance point - some people talk about lots of different routines are needed to perform this effect. I see it as an effect like the cups and balls... One good routine is all that is needed and some extra moves so you can change it when needed for times you have the same audience...

I hope this helps...

Thank you very much Bill Palmer for the kind words...
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 9, 2005 04:36PM)
I Have gotten Fair at the three card monte and though I do it infrequently, I have never found anyone who has a clue about how it's done (Yakima, however, is a very unmagical town). Everyone believes, I think, that all magic is done with special things and accoutrements. If you hand them the cards or tear them up it blows their minds. And I use one of Daryls ideas and use the 8&9 of spades and a red ace (I know it's not his original idea). no duplicates, so it seems more likely you got it from the same untricked deck. This is just me and "what I don't know could fill a wharehouse". Anyhoo thanks for the help everyone. I love this forum.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 9, 2005 05:12PM)
Another great Monte effect is Seven card monte out of the Dai Vernon Book Of Magic... This Monte is an easy one to do and can be very entertaining...

I hope this helps...
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 9, 2005 07:03PM)
Just a quick question. O.K. I want to get 50 posts, But I don't know the meaning of the word patience (vocabulary of a treefrog). So do I continue with ridiculous posts such as this, for my quota, or get a dictionary...... dictionary it is. Isn't the seven card monte gaffed? Or are you referring to another?
Mr. Palmer what is a "Spondulick" and how may I go about getting one?
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 9, 2005 08:27PM)
You might have to get 50 posts before he tells you. It's ever so secret :P

I was eating some the other day. It was a nutty thing to do ;)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 9, 2005 09:51PM)
Spondulick is a term that some carneys use for money.

I'll leave it up to you as to how you get them.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jan 9, 2005 10:31PM)
I have not seen anyone use "Spondulicks" except Mark Twain and Bill Palmer.
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 9, 2005 10:58PM)
Thank You everyone. My original question has been answered and then some. and I learned a little about this forum. I appreciate all your help.
Josh Riel