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Topic: Can't you do what Derren Brown does?
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jan 8, 2005 10:41AM)
I was with a few mentalist (all fairly mental) friends, and this scenario came up;
You personally have been 'approached' by a production company to present a six-part 30 minute per episode mentalist TV show. (commissioned at £200k/$400k per show)
The production manager (lets call him Andy) pours you a glass of malt whisky (it's what they sometimes do I hear), looks you in the eye, and says:
"You know, we really have thought long and hard about who to approach to front this new venture. We have all the finance & technical back-up. But tell me, do you really believe you possess the presence and skills to give us something that would equal the presentation of say... a Derren Brown? Or should we be looking for someone else? And please I need an honest answer."


Scenarios can be fun. I believe we can learn from them. The question being asked here is: is there anyone out there who thinks thay could do what DB does? Or are you (yes you personally) fighting for the opinion that there's no way you're good enough?
I think it's important to stand and be counted every so often (right or wrong), so here goes...
I really really believe I'd answer yes AND would be able to pull it off.
Anyone else?...Hello?... Is this thing on?...Helloooooo?...C'mon!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Ian Broadmore (Jan 8, 2005 11:10AM)
To answer your question yes. I was approached by a satelite channel in 1999 to do a daytime TV show for Granada. I turned it down because they wanted me to explain how psychics/mediums, etc., fool people by exposing mentalist methods. It was a eight part series. Do I regret not doing it???. You bet...
Message: Posted by: Darko Dojin (Jan 8, 2005 11:37AM)
The question should be, do other people think you can do what Derren does? Subjective opinions count for nothing and voicing an opinion that you can do what Derren does makes you sound like a egocentric tit. Even if you honestly think you can do it, then do it. Don't voice your opinion on something like this until you have proven yourself.
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Jan 8, 2005 12:16PM)
No - I have my own style.


Did I win?
Message: Posted by: johne (Jan 8, 2005 12:26PM)
I would probably say no, but still would have been able to pull it off...heck they have all the finance and technical backup.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jan 8, 2005 12:29PM)
Not bad Salsa, but I'm hoping for more from you. C'mon, I just know you've got some good Scots blood in you. Commit with Ian Broadmore and me.


I was also hoping that 'Drewmcadam' and 'Shrink' would throw their celtic hats into the arena.
"Here's tae us, wha's like us, nae money, and they're a' deid!"
Message: Posted by: Harry H (Jan 8, 2005 12:39PM)
Definitely. You should see my presentation of Smoke and my magic square!! That's all it takes isn't it? Besides, the camera crew will do the most work in the edit suite! :lol: ;)
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Jan 8, 2005 12:41PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-08 13:29, bobser wrote:
Not bad Salsa, but I'm hoping for more from you. C'mon, I just know you've got some good Scots blood in you. Commit with Ian Broadmore and me.

I was also hoping that 'Drewmcadam' and 'Shrink' would throw their celtic hats into the arena.
"Here's tae us, wha's like us, nae money, and they're a' deid!"
[/quote]

Bwahaha!

I am already developing ideas for TV. I am [b]that[/b] good. I just need to polish a few things and wahey!
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jan 8, 2005 05:14PM)
It is a pity though, don't you think? I mean if you can sing or act there's a chance you get a record deal or a part in a movie.
No one would say "I'm sorry but this country has already a got a guy doing singin (or acting)". But in the magic/mentalist world that's what we have.
Just 'for arguments sake' I would put forward the hypothesis that if for example Luke Jermay were twice as good as DB 'Objective' (the production company) would NOT take him on (as a one man mentalist). And neither would anyone else IMO.
So it saddens me when some young up and coming guys who have learned they're trade and truly believe in themselves are told by 'some' who have never seen they're work (for example wouldn't know if they have already won national championships awards)that their opinions are merely subjective. I think we really need to start believing in ourselves and fellow artists. You for example Salsa seem to be trying all sorts of things.
Message: Posted by: Darko Dojin (Jan 8, 2005 07:10PM)
I'm of the opinion that even if you know your self worth, you shouldn't voice it obviously. Let others sing your praises. By saying 'I'm great, look at me, I'm the mutt's nuts' is tacky and serves no purpose except to raise expectation. If you think you can do it, do it, let your actions and achievements speak for you. Don't say you're as good as Derren and that you could do his job expecting some kind of ratification from others on this site. Don't say it, prove it.
Message: Posted by: BonzoTheClown (Jan 8, 2005 07:48PM)
[quote]
fool people by exposing mentalist methods. It was a eight part series. Do I regret not doing it???. You bet...
[/quote]

You regret not exposing...sigh.

Marc Climens
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Jan 8, 2005 07:52PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-08 20:48, BonzoTheClown wrote:
[quote]
fool people by exposing mentalist methods. It was a eight part series. Do I regret not doing it???. You bet...
[/quote]

You regret not exposing...sigh.

Marc Climens
[/quote]

He is still allowed to regret a missed opportunity. It speaks volumes that he had the opportunity and turned it down. No need to get on his back about his regrets.
Message: Posted by: Rabbitless Hat (Jan 8, 2005 07:54PM)
The original question on this thread actually sounds like a great title for a Derren Brown special.

Tonight on Channel 4....Could anyone be Derren Brown???

He could show the process of picking the perfect volunteer to be trained personally by him for 2 months(say). Then they could drop the trainee into the middle of some town or country and see if the trainee can duplicate what Derren does. Or use Derren type techniques to overcome some new challenges. Derren could do the voice over commentary and critique or swoop in and rescue the situation if the trainee gets fouled up or panics. I'd tune in ..... or volunteer. ;)
Message: Posted by: art the magic guy! (Jan 9, 2005 06:53AM)
Mr Ian, you regret not revealing the methods or turning down an opportunity to be on T.V.?

no amount of $$ will be sufficient for me to reveal the works of any effects to a lay audience. it's the only bond we have as magicians/mentalist: never reveal the secrets to the laymen. but there are their times----

I had a person walk up to me after a performance and offer me 100$ for evey "trick" that I showed how is done. The key part for me there was the word "show", he never mentioned teach nor learn. So I knew he was a poser that only wanted to know how it's done so he can bust someone else later or just to satisfy his need to "not be left out." At the same time I went back to my native Brazil for vacation and went to a few villages to expose their "magic men" by actually doing the same stunts they did,(walk on fire, make a card float, dip my hands in boiling cooking oil without getting burned, etc.) and revealing how they are done, and threw in some extra stunts that they could not even do(the swami effect had one of the magic men go to his knees and beg for mercy from the demons...) all for free, after I learned that this "magic men" were extorting the poor into giving them all their possesions and even go so bold to demand to sleep with their daughters to cure their sick children or to keep their dying family members alive by using their spells and contacts with the spirits. In this case these people needed to know the truth, instead of living in extreme poverty with no food nor a house and with a hope that this man might save them, something which he was not going to.

So everything has it's time. I sometimes regret not showing that rich man a few silly secrets ( could have made a few 1000$ just by showing couple double lifts and a deck switch) but in the end I know I did the right thing. I to this day do not regret setting those villagers free of the opression those wannabes had on them, they now live prosperously and thank me whenever I go back and visit them(even ask me to do some mentalism for them!)because I did the right thing!!!
Message: Posted by: Ian Broadmore (Jan 9, 2005 09:32AM)
Mr Darko is that donnie??. To answer your question. If I have a TV company approach ME (I did not approach them ) then I consider myself professional enough to perform. For your information I do not seek public fame or adoration as do many on here I seek money pure and simple. I have appeared on BBC radio, been featured in The Mail on Sunday, the sunday express and the daily mail .I stated yes I can do a tv series I do not and would not wish to emulate DB or any other mentalist. I consider myself unique in that my performance is ME and not modeled on or copied from anyone else.I am not egocentric , In fact I'm the reverse quite introverted in my "normal" life. my professional persona is entirely different. franky I don't give a rats a*** for your opinions. you don't know me, or what I have achieved in my lifetime. DB is very much in the public eye due to TV exposure. tell me honestly how many more TV specials do you think are viable in view of the limited ammount of scenarios ie guess which hand, duplications etc. P daniels had a great TV career which suffered due to overexposure and the way TV eats up creativity. I know of a UK mentalist who is not known by the public but performs professionally, full time and earns over £300K a year. Why do you think we don't see him on TV ?. Personally I know my abilities and I KNOW what I can do and more importantly what I WILL do. Do you ?. or are you a hobyist or armchair performer??. Its easy to have a go and hide behing an anonoymous name and face.And to claryfy I AM DOING IT!! full time, nice living thanks very much. PS/ I have been approached by a TV company to do a series on psychology/mysticism in the year, why? because those that count KNOW I am a professional and can deliver the goods. Can you?....

Final point. I regret not taking a TV opportunity and exploiting it. I don't regret turning down exposure which I am totally against. But life runs in cycles and the opportunity will come again (it has in December).
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 9, 2005 09:55AM)
Ian , I agree with you about TV appearances . I can name several well known comedians who made a very good living on the working mens club/night club scene probably with the same gags/patter every night because no-one hade heard them before. Once they had "arrived" and got their spot on TV everyone had instantly seen their material so it made performing /travelling more difficult and the need to employ script writers even more.

Howard
Message: Posted by: Jim Reynolds (Jan 9, 2005 11:47PM)
[quote]Can't you do what Derren Brown does?[/quote]

Sure!

Like DB, I can safely say that the average Joe (outside of the UK) has never heard of me.

;P
Message: Posted by: BonzoTheClown (Jan 10, 2005 01:32AM)
[quote]
The Mail on Sunday, the sunday express and the daily mail
[/quote]

Ouch.. ;)

Marc Climens
Message: Posted by: Ian Broadmore (Jan 10, 2005 03:59AM)
Bonzo , say it all........
Message: Posted by: Gordon Fisher (Jan 10, 2005 04:01AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-08 12:10, Ian Broadmore wrote:
To answer your question yes. I was approached by a satelite channel in 1999 to do a daytime TV show for Granada. I turned it down because they wanted me to explain how psychics/mediums, etc., fool people by exposing mentalist methods. It was a eight part series. Do I regret not doing it???. You bet...
[/quote]

so you regret not doing this series that you know involed exposing mentalists secrets? if that is true then your a ....
Message: Posted by: Ian Broadmore (Jan 10, 2005 05:07AM)
No.. I regret not exposing mediums and psychics who exploit the grief of others for their gain. It would have been great to expose them without exposing mentalist methods but I decided it conflicted and turned it (and a considerable ammount of money down) Its called ethics. Something you probably don't have. It amazes me on this forum the ammount of people that are happy to have a go at you for being honest, and who them selves have done b***** all with their own lives.Let alone performed professionally for a living . Get real, wake up and smell the coffee.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jan 10, 2005 06:52AM)
I simply cannot believe how any one can attack what Ian Broadmore has said.
The guy has been totally honest. Given his beliefs whilst at the same time being aware that he 'might' have taken the coin. (but he never)
What's the big deal? leave the guy alone!
I have this thing about 'holier than thous'.. I reckon they've just never been offered enough and that like everone else... they have a price.
That price might be a million dollars or in Darko Dojin's case 'a vocabulary'. Or even in 'the guy who saves total village's' case: a little bit of modesty!
They've NEVER been offered, but Ian has... and he said NO!
Unless of course he's lying, and he really is the masked magician? B*****D!!!
Message: Posted by: DJP (Jan 10, 2005 06:52AM)
Ian I support your arugument, I have recently been speaking to a family friend of mine who has been making decisions on her life via a psychic, so I thought I would inform her about the technique that fake psychics used, which we all know is 'cold reading'!

I regard this more important than keeping a secret about a certain technique.

Dave
Message: Posted by: Burnt (Jan 10, 2005 08:31AM)
I think in terms of the scenario played above it would be best to ask more questions. Everyone has their own style and so if you were to do a show you would want to confirm that when they said they wanted a 'derren brown' the were talking about a magician/mentalist for a tv show. Not for someone who would be considered to be 'derren brown 2'.

Personally if they were asking for a mentalist for a tv show, depending on the context, then I would gladly think about it and most likely say 'yes'.
If they want a new derren brown then I would say 'no.' because I want to have a tv show based on my magic and style and not copied from anyone.

So could I try and work in a tv show doing magic for entertainment for viewers? Yes I think I could and would very much like to.
Could I try to be derren brown 2? No, I wouldn’t even want to consider it.
Message: Posted by: Gordon Fisher (Jan 10, 2005 08:48AM)
Ian broadmore has had a severe attitude since he started here at the Café, I have a problem with people who change their tune at the drop of a hat, he plainly said he the show he turned down involved exposing mentalist secrets and he regrets turning it down, in my view that makes him a (insert whatever) and then has the nerve to ask what ive done with my life, a hell of a lot more than you broadmore, but its just a shame you will never know
pseudomentally yours

Look doc Hilfords got a mini-me
Message: Posted by: mike stevenson (Jan 10, 2005 11:15AM)
Why do people feel the need to tell others they can do what Derren does? What does this prove, apart from giving you the opportunity to exercise your egos?
Message: Posted by: bobser (Jan 10, 2005 12:48PM)
Mike, read the initial question mate.
The scenario is that 'you' have just been asked by a producer with a six-part series for 'you' and all he's asking is: are 'you' as good as (not a clone) Derren Brown?
This has got nothing to do with a person's ego in any way shape or form. Unfortuanely cretins (did I spell that ok?) like dark dojin simply can't get their 2 oz of grey matter around that. They would prefer to simply insult the enquirer, in a most uncerebral way.
It's a simple question that requires a yes or a no or a none reply. Not lesser talents who also possess lesser manners.
They say that to be successful in life we need to always be looking out for openings. Imagine then, just for a second, that I am actually linked to a TV production company and I would like to know if there's anyone in the Café who 'believes in themselves'. Because if you don't then sure as hell no one else does.
IMHO I truly believe I know several mentalists/magicians/actors who are at least of the same qualitative persona as DB. But 'it is not their deisre to appear in a TV production. Remember DB was NOT 'Objective's' first choice.
However, I accept that others claim they are totally fascinated by him and they have NEVER EVER witnessed anyone that good. That's cool with me.
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 10, 2005 12:57PM)
Assuming you could...would anyone still be talking about it three days after the show.......like you lot are doing now?

Howard
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Nov 23, 2005 10:43PM)
Bobser,
I just ran across this.
I may not be as good as Brown, but I could sure convince the producer that I was hot.
Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Nov 24, 2005 05:06AM)
First: Ian is just honest, I can understand that he regrets it (a bit). But keep in mind, he turned the offer down!

It's not really about Derren I guess, it's about TV producers who want a show just like Mind Control or Trick of the mind. A german mentalist was asked to do the same thing and he just failed. He was copying some of the Brown-stuff. You can't have success if you copy presentation and style of another performer (especially when it's Derren).

I'm young and I'm dumb but I think that many of us would have the potential to at least fool the producers and really convince them that we're hot (just as Parson said) and deserve the chance to get a show.
And maybe we can do even better stuff than Derren. Why not?
I'm not willing to say: "Derren is on top of the game (he clearly is) and nobody will ever be better than him."

Greetz
Rick
Message: Posted by: Roki (Nov 24, 2005 05:55AM)
I am curious .For those that know Derren , is his public persona based on who he is or is it also scripted , exxxaggerated , constructed . He seems eloquent and very sharp in performance .
I definitely couldn't do what Derren does on TV without acting lessons , some kind of personality enhancement and possibly plastic surgery , but if/then I would love to be Bobsers new obsession and have my own thread here at the heart of Café society .. oh and I want my own lava lamp , bigger than Derrens.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Rudolfo (Nov 24, 2005 07:22AM)
Well, nice posts by Parson, Rick and Roki. There's a lot or thruth in Ricks post. Thnkas Rick. ANd I even want to go a step futher.

Basicly I am a man who admire the work of many like RIchard, Banachek ...and of course Derren. But I never would make god out of them. In fact its like with singers or other artists. There are many performers out there who are at least as good ad Derren. But like singers, Derren had the posibility, concept and the right people around him at the tv station who and some luck of course. But important is that they just in case want to give advice if they feel and Derren is the person who makes the decisions (most of the time)

Why I know that. Well until now I didn't meet Derren personally but I know a man who worked for channel4 and the production company of Mind control until he quit recently. And he told me that Derren is not exact same person private than on TV of course but quite close.
Derren did produce some of his things for Mind Control 3, which will be aired in march 2006, here in Vienna in September. Unfortuantely I wasn't in VIenna at those time since I had mental work around Austria.
But I heared that it could be, not sure, that they come back here to VIenna to produce some more stuff. Then I try to makie an appointment with Derren. Could be really interesting to meet him ;-))

So Derren has build up TV specials that are entertaining and you really enjoy to watch as I do. But IMO we all, who performs mentalism, could do such successful tv specials. IF WE STAY NATURAL (Thanks Professor Vernon ;-)). And that's the key IMO. AS mentioned in other threads that is the failure many other performers or better TV-station make like the one in germany Rick was referring to.

SO that's the reason why his shows look quite real and natural. You never can successful copy an original on TV. It's the same to successful TV series or game shows. Especially here in Austria. Sometimes they even are embarrasingly weak.

Many TV producers try to copy a complete successful show regardless if the concept and style fits the casted performer. But at the end, like RIck mentioned, you as a performer cannot win. THe tragedy is that its not the TV producer who suffers but the performer who is talented and smart person but never could show that.

So if you plan to do a special on TV IMO the most important job is to find a TV station who will accept your concept and your persona. If not than stay away. There is so much good work for mentalists at coporate shows or theaters.

Just my thoughts on this.

Greetings
Thomsa
Message: Posted by: Thomas Rudolfo (Nov 24, 2005 07:26AM)
Sorry for my typos folks but sometimes when I write passionately and quite fast about a topic this could happen. :)

Thomas
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Nov 24, 2005 03:48PM)
Thank you very much indeed!
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 24, 2005 03:55PM)
I was just a kid when I set up this thread.
Since then I've gone off Derren Brown. His stuff is now 'old world'. But I need to know:
Is Darko Dojin still working in a pub, practicing his Elmslie Count?
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Nov 24, 2005 07:03PM)
Bobser,

You should have been auditioned for Dirty Tricks(Ch4). I've seen you're online vid and it would have suited you to the ground :)

Marcus
Message: Posted by: landmark (Nov 25, 2005 10:54AM)
Derren's got:

high intelligence,
lots of creativity,
entertaining effects
boldness in method and execution,
good sleight of hand chops,
excellent performance skills,
attractive audience personality
a coherent character
an artistic approach

I think he sets the bar pretty darn high.

No I can't.

But sometimes you have to lie and say you can and then do your best. Under the right conditions it could help you become better.


Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: SteeleFusion (Nov 25, 2005 01:58PM)
I can do the crazy mans handcuffs...Does that mean I can be David Copperfield?
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 25, 2005 02:22PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-24 20:03, migit61 wrote:
Bobser,

You should have been auditioned for Dirty Tricks(Ch4). I've seen you're online vid and it would have suited you to the ground :)
Marcus
[/quote]

Marcus, thanks. You're right. I'm very talented & very very funny. I would have been much better than that pair: 'Stuart & Barry'. But as you know by viewing the vid, I'm still young and quietly awaiting my chance.
The problem is I allowed myself to get romantically involved with 5 members of the 'Objective'crew during the commissioning, one of them being Andrew O'conner (at his instigation I may add). That obviosly caused a lot of problems. So, as you can imagine, they got Pete Firman to ask me to leave. He's so... determined!

Regards,
Bobser
Message: Posted by: Thomas Rudolfo (Nov 25, 2005 02:51PM)
Yes Craig. Nice Post. I like your ironical line. :)

And it further means that David Copperfild can be Arthur Setterington, who created the effect, or Daryl or Ammar who performed it before.

And all this leads me to write some points and opinions. I don't want to offend but rather to make think a little bit about all this.

So well, the answer to the question of this thread would be YES, of course. Every mentalist could do this! Could I said.
WHY?

Well, again I want to mention that I really enjoy to watch Derren and like most, not all, of his shows.
But I'm also a man who doesn't like to raise people as god. Derren uses basic principles of magic, mentalism and psychology. Mixed with some clever editing and on some effects he tries 10 times until it works and this one is shown on TV.

The result is a great show full of entertainment, fun and amazement.
So the key point is as I mentioned on another thread to do this stuff in your own style and then you could be as successful if you have been around the right people (channel 4) at the right time to get the contract for the specials.

The reason I write all this is, that instead of trying to copy Derren 100% (like other Tv stations did) one should try such effects with own styling, words and byplay. Then you also can create the same amazement like Derren if you would appear on TV.

Its a sad tendency of human nature to copy great performers up to 100% and then they wonder and are putting curses on the whole world because the world doesn't admire them like they do with the other performer.

These are the times when I feel like in Kindergarden. Derren is Derren, DC is DC, Osterlind is Osterlind and YOU are YOU.

Like we all can learn from them they also can learn from You. They are also just human with no more special powers than you.

They very often work the same methods like you but they had the right concept at the right time for the right people with the needed money and thus they are maybe more famous now than you. And they deserve this. Of coure it could have been you. But maybe sometimes it IS you.

Take awway the cameras, big budget. Imagine they are a performer like you at an event. They present their program and you yours. And it can be you at this event who gets the bigger applause. Because they didn't know of the fame of the one performer. SO they just judge the real performance.

Its like an unknown artist paints a picture and then some very potent people donate this is a new unknown Picasso. The unknown never would have sold this at thousands of dollars. But with the right ad in the media it plays.
that's the problem of todays world in many domains aside mentalism. that's the power of media. It can be great but we all should observe this with a good protion of critics.

So enjoy Derren and all the other great performers and maybe learn from them. But donÄt waste time to try to be as exact as this man. Maybe use some stuff of them but present it your way.

So I just had the urge to write this. Please forgive if sometimes my passion went along in this post. But I had to say this once.

Greetings
Thomas
Message: Posted by: Thomas Rudolfo (Nov 25, 2005 02:54PM)
Hi Guys.

Sorry for my long post above. It was a hard day and so my passion went crazy a littlebit. BUt sometimes I like to philosophize.

Greetings
THomas
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Nov 25, 2005 06:12PM)
[quote]
On 2005-11-25 15:22, bobser wrote:

Marcus, thanks. You're right. I'm very talented & very very funny. I would have been much better than that pair: 'Stuart & Barry'. But as you know by viewing the vid, I'm still young and quietly awaiting my chance.
The problem is I allowed myself to get romantically involved with 5 members of the 'Objective'crew during the commissioning, one of them being Andrew O'conner (at his instigation I may add). That obviosly caused a lot of problems. So, as you can imagine, they got Pete Firman to ask me to leave. He's so... determined!

Regards,
Bobser
[/quote]

ROFLMAO :rotf:

Marcus
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Nov 25, 2005 06:56PM)
.......is this real? If the answer is YES, then the answer you were looking for is NO.........