Hello all,

Those of you who frequent the Penny for your thoughts forum may well recognize me, and that recently I have been airing my frustrations about mentalism and all that. Ill give you a brief bio on me so you know where Im comming from with what is to follow.

First, I am not, nor have I ever been a Magician. I cam from laymen (ugly word!), to studying psychology (not 'pop. psychology', I wanted to know what REALLY made people tick.) and then a bit of Mnumonics, a bit of Suggestion/Hypnosis, a bit of Ideomoter Responce (muscel reading) and then Mentalism. All with in about a year/2 years!
Then thru geting into mentalism I was forced, sometimes kicking and screaming to learn some magic. So I have perifiral slight of hand skills.

So why am I telling you all this?

Well, Bizarre magic is, to me, all about charecter.
Im not a fan of overly heavy storys about life, death and the universe to the four aces! which, sadly is to often done from what I can tell.

But some 'concepts' of Bizarre magic appeal to me. Like I said before, the idea of charecter over the tricks, exploring themes withing an effect and creating powerfull [i]magic[i].

Although my main body of knowedge is mentalism, I hate how traped in I feel with in that term. I don't want to be a psychic, in fact true MENTALism has nothing to do with most psychic/paranormal phenominon, in my opinion.
Wich leads me to the most sensable style according to my own belifs, the Psychological stye of performance but......I will alow a hint of esoteric knowledge to seep thru.
(NOTE: I don't just go 'hay this is all psychological', and do a simple trick, wich is clearly a trick, and talk about voice infection! I really PERFORM)

But I still have my frustrations of it not being 'magicall' in the real sence of the word. I am now comming to my point, I often dream up ideas about Magic. Not doing your bog standed stuff, but really elegant performance pieces. This is where I think Bizarre magic can excell.
I don't even know if some of my mad idea are posable with the exception of mass hypnosis or computer generated imagery you see in films.

Oddly, I think if I where a 'Magician' I woud still have a 'claim', a claim of "using traditional conjuring skills combined with powerfull psychological techniques" to create a unique experince.
Ive asked mysef, what do I want my performance to be about? what Vision really appeals to me? What do I want my audience to experince?
And its one of escapism for my audience. But I just don't think I can do that with mentalism alone.

I imagin in my mind a performance that's almost a combination of Magic (for the effects), Mentalism/Mindreading (for the seemingly real), Hypnosis and Suggestion (for other more powerfull 'real' effects), but with the spirit of Bizarre (charecter, central themes, again the style of realism but also escapism).........all that, but lovely(think about the fibms, Amilie, Big Fish.)

What do you guys and gals think.

"I imagin in my mind a performance that's almost a combination of Magic (for the effects), Mentalism/Mindreading (for the seemingly real), Hypnosis and Suggestion (for other more powerfull 'real' effects), but with the spirit of Bizarre (charecter, central themes, again the style of realism but also escapism).........all that, but lovely(think about the fibms, Amilie, Big Fish.)"

Welcome to the world of bizarre magick!!!!
just keep on visiting this forum and you'll learn more.

Alex,
Sounds like you are trying ot find your path as an artist!! Congratulations!!

Bizarre is more than stories applied to ace tricks, trust me. And it is not all dark, demonic stuff. In my view, a good Bizarre performance encompasses many emotions - joy, wonder, laughter, uneasiness, absurdity, meloncholy, the more the variety emotions the more powerful and fulfilling your performance will feel to the audience. My partner and I create many different effects - some are silly, some are philosophic, and some are dark. And mostly we try to find effects and props that make sense to the story we are telling, not try and jam a story onto a prop.

You might enjoy taking a look at Luke Jermay's work as it seems to be along the lines of your thinking, it is very psychological. For the stories and scripting, my mentor is Eugene Burger. But principally, start looking around at stories you would like to tell. It could really be anything - I've gotten ideas from Poe, Lao Tzu, and also developed pieces from interesting topics that are a little obscure so it would be new to the audience, and I've written poetry to perform to. Whatever you do, just let it be you!

And have joy in the creating, it will shine through.

The Red

Thanks sinnead zenun, I get the feeling that if I had posted this in the Penny Forum, most would have got mad at me and not have welcomed me with the open arms you have.

The Red (your not the Dog are you, if you are, I just have to say, Im a big fan of your work ).
Im a big fan of Lukes work and have most of his stuff. Eugene Burger was a name I only ever herd on boreds like this, and in books but then I saw him perform. WOW!
His voice is like lequid chocolate!
that's exactly what Im getting at. He does quite a bit of mentalism, and Bizarre stuff, and magic, and its great, you get lost in him as soon as he speaks.

I still feel that my magic will be more mental in theme than anything else, but as I kind of said in my post above, I don't want to restrict myself to just the bog-standered Mentalism presentation.
I LOVE Mindreading and Mental Influence styled effects, and would still perform them as if they where 'real', real in the sence of my ideas on how its done. But I belive you can still have a very strong MENTAL THEME, what I belive Mentlaism is all about, much like the Philosophical doctrine of the same name, and not confuse the audience.

Although I think the audience must have a belif in my mindreading abillitys, its not the be-all and end-all of what I want to do.
Something I think being solely just a mentalist will do, i.e. most mentalism performances are all about the fact they can read minds, bend spoons, predict the unpredictable or whatever. I don't wnat anyone to join my cult/religon, or make people adopt a belif system (that spirtis live on after death, for example, or that aliens exsit!).
I tempted to say I just want to entertain them, but what I mena by that is, ofcorse amuse them and delight them with my skills and persona but also allow them wo escape from there worls in to mine. Something that Great Performers, Comedians especially, do very well.

I posted somehting over at the Penny forum that asked about what the hell do I call myself, a label do define what I do. Mindreader wouldnt surfice, nor Mentalist coz here in the UK, if your called a Mentalist it means your a mad man. Plus it means nothing to normal people.

What do you guys call yourslef, to define what you do. How do you communicate the fact that your a Magician but not the averege sort.

Alex,

It sounds like you are asking the right questions, both of
us and of yourself. From reading your posts it is clear
that you want to separate yourself from the "traditional"
mentalist approach to entertainment. You say that you want
to escape into a world of your creation.

So, tell us more about that world. Where do you want to
take them? What do you want them to believe, if only for
a moment? With these answers it will be much easier to
help you find a way to make that happen or to define what
you do.

I, for example, like to scare people. I know that there are
may other themes, but that is what I do. I build hanted houses,
lead ghost hunts, perform seances, spook shows and other similar
types of entertainment. I also make sure that my guests know that
what they are seeing is theatre. Therefore, I define what I do
as "Dark Entertainment." That is the world I want my audience
ready to enter. Where do you want to take yours?

Dave

Oooooh, good question Dave, and thanks.

On a side note I cant quite belive I havent come here before now (well I have but that was aaaaages ago), I went almost crazy trying to talk to those mentalists 'one stop down' from here. It was infuriating.
Ive always, well in the begining when I wasnt quite so jaded, thought that I would use mentalsim techniques. But then I knind of got traped and so on, but I hated the way mentalsits thought of things such as Swami's as THERES!

But back to your questions......


Basicly I want to take them in to MY world, which is what I belive great entertainers do. Hence my ideas of escapism for my audience.

Allow me, if you will to describe that world to you....
Its a rather lovely, imaginitive world but also has a draker side, both of wich I reflected in my taste in music. For example, I have many Cd's by Papa Roach, should you know who they are. And also Dammean Rice, should you know who he is. Both VERY different.
Im also fasanated by peopel. I love people watching which sparked my intrest in psychology and, in part, Mentalism. I love concepts such as; we all share our minds at some deeper leval, we communicate our thoughts and personality in SOOOOO many ways, etc. etc. and these are things I love to explore with in ideas for effects.

Memories are also another narative I employ and explore(im barly a semi-pro by the way!), for example, 'mindreading' a memory, makeing a psychometry routine all about the memories attached to an object (and not about psychic vibes and all that nonsence).

Where do I want to take them? well I guess through a collection of emotions. And I know I can, just not with Mentalsim alone.

What do I want them to belive? What ever they want really, if you are refering to the issue of 'how' I do it.
But I don't think you do, I want them to see the world a little differently. Perhapes thru my eyes. See above.
The image comes to mind of a cople who are going home after seeing me perform. There in the car on the way home. There not speaking to each other, just thinkinging. They are husband and wife.
They both decide to speak at the same time, and somehow both desided to say the same thing! They laugh. Because it reminds them of a message in my performance, that we share minds at some leval.

I know its a rather self indulgent idea but I want my performance to be all about people and there minds but NOT in a naff way!
As a mentalsit a felt traped and forced to perfomr with that big word 'Psychic' looming over me. Be it as one or not as one, if that makes sence.



Oddly enough I think 'Psychological Entertainment' fits quite well. Because it almost litrally means, of or relating to the mind - entertainment.
So it would make me a person who entertains the mind, entertains WITH the mind also. And this can be done with the right kind of magic, with the right kind of Hypnotic stunts, and with the right kind of mentalsim.

Just had a thought that migh clarify better. I still want my performance to be very much Mentalism based BUT not Psychic based. The theme is the mind and humans not psychics and moving stuff with out touching it!

And there can be a 'danger' in performing magic within this kind of performance. It could be used as a break in the performance but that could destroy or dilute the mentalsim effects.

By the way, I really don't know many 'magic' effects, deffenetly not enough to do a magic show. I guess that's because my focus has been on mentalsim and as I said before I found out about magic along the way. Ive never really applied myself to it.
I do however have an odd philosophy about magic in that it doesn't really exsist, as we all know as intelegent adults but it does exsist in the mind.
You absolutly know, that elephant didn't really appear from no where but in your mind you make it happen. Its that wonderfull battle between left brain, right brain. Interlect an imagination.

A friend of mine whos a part time card magician once described misdirection this way; Human beings are the only animals on the planet that look at where the finger is pointing, every other animal looks at the finger. Without that, magic, as we know it, couldn't happen.

Just though id add all that to help you get to know me better.

Another thought that just poped in to my mind (Ive been looking thru this bored a bit:) I especially liked the topic Celab started around Mentalists and Bizarrists).

Bizarre Magic is often described as 'storytelling' magic. And under that term lyes so much potential. I guess the 'story' I could be telling within my performance is a story, of a man with these abilitys. Me. And all the above things metioned, 'my world', come thrugh in this 'story' because its MY world.

I hope Im not coming accross as an ego maniac! Im not talking about the 'look at me and my super mind' style of performance. Because, me and my world, reflect something about the individules in the audience.

It reminds me of a quote at the very begining of Derren Brown's Pure Effect, cant remember it exactly but it says something about the 'desire of the audince members to see further in to them slef.'

Ofcorse there will be demonstrations of my skills, techniques and abillitys but that wont be the be all and all of it.
I hope this makes sence, Im really enjoying this Bizarre forum as its seems a much more philosophical art form. You seem to incorege, nay expect it to be more than just effects. Theres a certen 'imaginitive-analitical', deep thinking attitude here. I like it.

I think the best way to get in the right mindset for Bizarre is to think of it as "your world". How do you see the magic of your world operating? It's similar to reading a fiction book with magic in it, they all have different "rules" about how the magic operates. Define in your mind how it operates in yours. An advantage is that the more believable it is to you, the more real it will seem to your audience. Plus, it's more fun that way...!

Bravo --

Thinking this through, bringing in new elements and even technology is the stuff of miracles to the public and the sign of true magical entertainment intent.

Reading your initial post -- I worry about too many real artists and creators being confined in their efforts to only using old stuff and ideas. How many "old" duffers would think, for instance, of using moder trance musis tracks to aid induction? Coordinated lighting, images, etc. can only enlarge and enhance.

But please keep this in mind -- I learned too late in my process -- it is almost completely impossible to invent something and perfect it at the same time. As was NASA, be prepared to blow up a few rockets (very costly ones atg that) along the road to success.

Most top people will conceive, build, practice and rehearse a new item and then still have it fail for the public-- and have to put the illusion, routine, idea or whetever in the warehouse or garage before either modifying it (at some expense) or dumping it.

In fact, look at the conversations with Larry Becker about his first table built by Wellington.

Good fortune in pursuing this line of performance. Tie it together with publicity, promotion, performing and business skills and you can surpass, in this new generation, even the noteriety of Kreskin.

Thanks guys, your replies are very much apreciated.

Tony - You seem to have sumed up nicly what I was going on about.

Gregg - Thanks for the posetive feedback and advice. I am a bit of a perfectionist!

Ive been thinkng about what it is exactly I want to do. I find myself breaking away from the 'tradition' of mentalism, i.e. that its all about Psychic stuff, be it as a Psychic or as some one who is NOT psychic. And although I personally am more inclined to go with the Psychological Mentalsit style, I feel ALOT, and I mean ALOT! of mentalists don't understand how to get it right.
Only in my opinion, ofcorse, but its not about real or imagened Psychological techniques its about PEOPLE, about HUMANS.

Most of the audience don't really care how its done, they will work out there own thoughts on it according to there belifs, and with that in mind I can get on with the job of performance anf creating convincing illusions of X, Y ot Z.