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njh Regular user Baltimore, MD 143 Posts |
I am so happy! I just worked out a handling for David Roth's 'The Funnel' that can be done completely standing up! There are no funny looking ditches or hiding coins anywhere on your body. You don't even have to go to your pockets. I'm gonna film a video as soon as I can, but I don't have a website or anything to host the file. Can anyone help me out?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Perhaps one of the websites like sleightgeek might work for you. Shane Wiker was offering to host some videos earlier, he might have some info for you.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Shane Wiker Inner circle Las Vegas 1199 Posts |
NJH,
I'll host the file. Just send it to MagicShaneW@Gmail.com. If the file's too big, let me know and I'll send you an e-mail account that can send files of almost any size. Shane Wiker |
GeorgeSantos Inner circle San Diego, CA 1106 Posts |
Is it uploaded already?
"David Roth is the greatest coin manipulator in the entire world.."
-Dai Vernon "The Professor" I AM A FILIPINO MAGICIAN |
cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-28 19:16, njh wrote: Here we raise interesting copyright issues. IMHO while most sleights are not protected by copyright laws, sufficiently original routines should be. Let’s assume that David’s funnel routine is protected by copyright. Does his publishing in a book give the reader an implied license to publish a derivative work, such as a video of a new handling? It may not. Obviously, any legal analysis comes down to how willing people are to enforce that law. I’m not trying to stifle creativity here, just trying to point out areas that may be legally tenuous.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I would like to see a handling of David's Funnel trick that works standup. It is a good trick and deserves to be performed. I somehow doubt that David has any issues with a standup version of his trick making print. Quite the contrary, I suspect he might enjoy knowing that someone likes the thing enough to adapt it to suit their needs.
As to the "copyright thing"... Gee Thomas, imagine that argument applied to a certain coins across that is not and has not been offered to the public at all, though is both original and protected by copyright in the form of letters to a few people. Go down that path if you will. The current ethos in conjuring does NOT protect works fron "variations" going public.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-02 09:55, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Hmmm... I suppose one could make that argument... however, it would have to be made within the statute of limitations for copyright claims (generally 3 years from the last infringing act). But while one could make this argument (in the funnel example above or your “hypothetical”), there is no clear indication how a court would rule. The case law on magic is scant. Without offering legal advice here, I will say that courts tend to look with disfavor upon litigants who wait too long to bring claims. In other words, even if the last infringing act was two minutes ago, if the first infringing act was twenty-five years prior – just to pull a number out of the air with no connection to any particular case – and the plaintiff was aware of twenty-five years of infringement, a court might be more tempted to find in the defendant’s favor.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Let's stay with the Funnel. It's in print, and the inventor would likely welcome the renewed interest in his trick.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
Yes, we will stay with the funnel.
I just want to reiterate that I’m not trying to discourage magic innovation by dousing it with cold legal waters. I find the nexus between magician’s ethics and legal issues fascinating.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Malcolm Kavalsky Regular user 114 Posts |
Cloneman,
Are sleights or routines patentable at all ? Has a magician ever been sued for presenting (or even publishing) anothers routine ? I have the impression that everything is based on the "honour" code, though in JT's case this doesn't seem to have worked. Another case which interests me is Rubinsteins Encyclopedia (which I enjoy very much). He clearly did not invent most of the sleights, but does give credit to those that did. Did he need their consent to publish ? |
cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
Kavalsky -
Sleights are not copyrightable -- by definition they are a process or methodology, neither of which are protected under U.S. Copyright law. They might be patentable (stranger things have been patented, such as a method of entertaining a cat with a laser pointer. I swear to G*d!). Getting a patent is extremely expensive and difficult. Magicians have been sued for presenting another's routine, but the case law is scant. Most of the cases on the subject are from the 30's and the 40's, when intellectual property law was a much different beast than it is today. In summary, Dr. Rubinstein’s encyclopedia videos, which focus primarily on sleights, probably do not violate any IP laws. However, if someone were to produce a video entitled “My Favorite David Roth Routines,” featuring Roth’s choreography (distinguish choreography from the underlying sleights which comprise it), that would probably violate David’s copyright in his routines.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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njh Regular user Baltimore, MD 143 Posts |
Thomas...
David Roth couldn't do anything if another magician did that. I'm sure it happens all the time, where magicians teach other magicians' tricks/sleights on their DVDs. I'm sure Michael Ammar borrowed some other magicians' one-liners and patter parts for his Easy to Masters series. But nobody sees anything wrong with it, because it's just synthesizing information. It's the way magic tricks come together. And besides, how many DVD's, which are compilations of other magician's tricks, come out all the time? Also, the problem with patenting a gimmick for a trick is that it's accesible to the entire world. In the U.S. any patent becomes part of the public domain.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Is there a video clip of the Funnel routine to look at yet?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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njh Regular user Baltimore, MD 143 Posts |
I'm editing it. Should be ready in a couple days.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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