Corriveau said:
"I've never understood why a true skeptic would want to perform as a mentalist."

Why do you think a skeptic wouldn't want to do mentalism?


"They do like to say that if science cannot prove it, it can't be real."

I think most skeptics and scientists would not agree with that statement. I am a skeptic and I certainly disagree. Science has not proven the existence of god; yet many scientists are religious. Love and art cannot be "proven" by science, yet I'm sure there are few if any skeptics/scientists who don't believe that such things exist.

Just in the last day or two, for the first time, astronomers may have photographed a planet outside our solar system (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26609-2005Apr4.html) Scientists are well aware that there is an enormous amount that we don't know about the world. No one can yet "prove" or disprove much about other solar systems, until we know more about them.

I think it would be foolish for anyone to say that if science can't prove it, it can't be real, and a scientist, I believe, would be the last one to say that.

I'm not sure if too many people 'say' that anymore. We now know that science doesn't prove what IS. It's now fairly well accepted that science's main role is in proving what ISN'T. And even then, it constantly changes.
Now this'll probably be too heavy for most in here. Don't worry about it. Let it go.

Bobser (man of knowledge)

I love watching this Area of the forum. It is such a funny one. I think that if someone posted a thread about where to by a pooper scooper, a fight would break out about skeptics and cynics and so forth. The thread was made to tell everyone about a new forum and all I see is teeth gnashing and claws shown about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the link to a new forum. Who need boxing, wrestling or anyother contact sport. We have it right here.

Rick. I like your little forum.

Regards
Wolflock

Bobser said:
"It's now fairly well accepted that science's main role is in proving what ISN'T."

I'm not sure if that's true. I think scientists are usually trying to discover things; planets we didn't know existed, cures for illnesses, knowledge about history through archaeology, etc.

Here are some links to science magazines, etc.
http://www.nsf.gov/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/
http://www.sciencenews.org/
http://science.nasa.gov/

I don't see much where scientists are proving what isn't. But maybe I misunderstood your point. Would you mind elaborating?

A marriage between logic and magic will give us the answer...and its only doubt that gives us our education, our enlightenment...

to argue there is or isn't this paranormal stuff is only relative to one's perception of this world...you cant tell my African Grand father that spirit entities don't exist...he will drive you crazy with his stories as a youth in the Vodou world...this is HIS reality and not a single one can alter it save himself...

where logic fails, magic begins...and vice versa...

I see ghosts all the time, in human form...zombie like beings controlled by the Gods of mass production and over consumption...go to the shopping mall, they're everywhere...

anyhow, Rick look forward to your Goddesses' forum...

Babakali - I like your quote in your signature.

Could you imagine Jesus trying to perform a miracle nowadays. Poor guy will have skeptics and scientists jumping down his throat. Just an interesting thought.

I have to say, I find that statement baffling.

Personally, I can't for the life of me understand why a genuine believer in the paranormal would want to falsify evidence through fake psychic demonstrations. Besides (in my opinion) debasing a very beautiful form of performance art, fake psychics (as opposed to mentalists - an important distinction for me) muddy the waters of legitimate research.

If I were a believer in the paranormal, I'd be doing whatever I could to further such serious research - not actively damaging it by falsifying evidence.

Just my own thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

Uhhh, wouldn't Jesus have been better off facing skeptics today than
facing the doubters that crucified him 2,000 years ago? Rev. Moon calls
himself a messiah, and so far he's remained relatively unscathed. In fact,
I'd say he's thriving:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art......n22.html

I don't know Jim.
He got a lot of mileage out of the stunt.
Don't you think?

We are still talking about it 2,000 years later.

Jack

Personally, I wouldn't call it a stunt. I was just responding to Wolflock's quote ("Could you imagine Jesus trying to perform a miracle nowadays. Poor guy will have skeptics and scientists jumping down his throat. Just an interesting thought."). The point I was trying to make is that modern-day skeptics may be annoying to some people, but we're talking about facing the wrath of Randi vs. being executed.

Though I'm confident the PC Police of this forum will promptly censor this part of our thread (we're talking about JC & Co. and not in such a flattering way... )Anywho... as one with a degree in Religious studies I'd be willing to bet that JC would have more trouble with Pat Robertson and Jerry Fatwell than he would Randi or the CSI COPS gang... after all, it wasn't "unbelievers" that betrayed him 2,000 years ago, it was the Corrupted Priests that used the temple as a means to make a serious profit (not the religious kind of prophet either...) as well as to gain social and political favor... much like Mr. R and F and all their televangelic clones seem bent on doing in today's world.

No, if JC were here today I'd probably be right beside him planting the C-4 on the transmission towers of the PTL and 700 Clubs and desiging one heck of a suppository for the others. Storming the temple and condemning the "Money Changers" today would be an entirely different kind of game and JC would be murdered in the name of Patriotism and labeled a Terrorist and Charlatan. Then again, as MAD Magazine pointed out 30 years ago... trying to convice the world that some 14 year old teenage girl got knocked up by the Holy Spirit instead of the man 30 years her senior that she'd been seen with... well, that's going to take a act of God to get anyone to buy... Joseph would be imprisoned or at the very least, forced to register as a sex offender wherever the two of them happened to be...

Oi vey! The direction things would turn if such were the case...

BTW... we really could use more OPEN MINDED but educated folk over at the forum... please join us!

http://paraportal.proboards28.com/index.cgi

I meant my post as a statement of fact.
Nothing else.

You can separate the man from the religion.
If not why not?

A great deal can be learned from the book written on his behalf.

Jack

There were others during History who suffered even more than hims strangley enough, and some even survived. I am reading an interesting book at the moment called The History of punishment and turture. If you can read it and you will see how blood thirsty humans can be.