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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I can sail 51 undetectable bottoms around a card table in about 25 seconds, so about two every second.
I am very pleased with the illusion as I can not see them coming off the bottom. However when I mix them with tops I am not too pleased, as I can not get my tops to look exactly like my bottoms and so although the bottoms still look good there is a detectable difference! I just can not understand why it is that I can not seem to train my tops to look precisely like my bottoms. I had a go at trying to change my bottom deal to look more like the tops but then the bottom was not as deceptive as it was. I know all that sounds contradictory because if the bottoms do not look like my tops, them how can they be deceptive! All I can say is I would like them to be the same because my consecutive bottoms are as deceptive as I can get them. So is this an unavoidable problem or have you got any advice. Regards Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
zaki_rafih99 Regular user 164 Posts |
Deal a top then a bottom conecutively through the whole deck until they both look the same? I used to do that for tops, seconds, and bottoms... just run the whole deck alternating each deal with the same grip until you get through all the cards. then repeat
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
This particular bottom deal that I am doing now is a new way to me. Maybe it is that I am somewhat entrenched in my old way of dealing tops. Maybe I just need to get used to dealing the tops in a new fashion but I am finding it more difficult to do that than to deal the bottoms in a new way.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Alniner Loyal user Burlington, ON, Canada 254 Posts |
Tommy, I am at the same impass as you. I am doing exactly what Zaki said. It's tough, but I'm working through it. I'm also getting a "click" when I do the alternating top/bottom deal.
Skål
-- Alan |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
This "Click" if it is what I think you mean, is the bottom card hitting the pushed over top card. So the timming of pulling the top card back is out maybe. However I have found if you not only push the top over but also push it up a fraction with the side fingers then that makes a silent deal even if it is a little misstimed. This action also helps you to keep the fingers from flashing down. I am talking here about a strike bottom with a sort of master grip.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
IanKendall Special user Edinburgh 571 Posts |
Slow down. Seriously.
Then get hold of a metronome. You can get a good electronic one for about 15 pounds on ebay, or there are a couple of software ones if you run a google search. Now, set the metronome to a slowish speed (somewhere between 60-90 bpm would be a good place to start). Deal to that rhythm and pay attention to the take for the two deals (or three if you are mixing seconds as well). When you can run through the deck at that speed, ratch up the rate by 10 bpm. The discipline is not to move ahead until you have the deal acceptable at the current speed. Pretty soon you'll be dealing at speed, but with drastically improved results. Hope that helps, Take care, Ian |
Alniner Loyal user Burlington, ON, Canada 254 Posts |
I'm actually getting close to purchasing a videoCD called Tops, Seconds and Bottoms. I heard it's really good!!
Skål
-- Alan |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Thanks Ian
I do deal at a fast pace normally anyway, but I will heed your advice. I finally found a way of spinning the cards around the table. Maybe I am rushing it. It is probably watching Steve Forte. I may have got over excited. It is influenced by Steve Fortes - Take Thumb Angle in particular - and Andru Luvisi deal. Regards Tommy PS I think I will not be dealing seconds and tops in the same round, that would puddle my head. I am not that sharp.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Tommy,
At some point it is important to mix tops with bottoms. In my experience you rarely need to deal more than one bottom card in a round. My practice usually involves dealing a round tops and one bottom either to a 'partner' hand or to myself. All the magic/gambling routines I practice use the bottom deal sparingly. For me, the problem is finding a way of disguising the noise. As yet I have not found a better solution than Ian kendell's method of dealing tops seconds and bottoms along with his way of diguising the sound issue for magic at least!! And you can integrate Andru's 'thumb move' into the Kendell technique. With regard to Steve Forte dealing bottoms, in a Lance Burton show in the 90's he dealt bottoms before an audience using what looks for all the world like the Gene Maze grip and a really fast index finger take. As usual, the technique was excellent and extremely deceptive. As such it has also become part of my practice. Regards, Paul H |
Logan Five Inner circle Northern California 1434 Posts |
I deal my tops and bottoms with the rhythm of the deck coming up and dealing the card down ( I dunno if I just made sense or not ). Something I do on the strike bottoms with which I use the mechanics grip is that I "take the deck from the card" instead of taking the card from the deck. I learned that from Jerry Camero's tape on the bottom deal. There is very little noise when the card is dealt.
I like Ian's idea about the metronome!!
Self concept is destiny..
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Hi Paul
I have gone back to taking with the second finger with this new deal, new to me I mean. The "Take" thumb angle I refer to is Steve Forte (note the angle of his thumb as it hits the top card) espeacialy when dealing tops. I have found I can spin cards out this way now dealing bottoms. I also have taken an idea from Jim Swains second deal "The Crossing Thumbs" and put it to use in the bottom deal. Before I tried this I could never spin/sail the cards with the second finger take. I could deal them but not fire them so to speak. I can deal tops and bottoms this way but it is just not right yet. I owe much of it to you thanks. Also Jimmy Cards who told me it was just down to the mechanics, as usual he was right, although at the time, I could not see it. It has been and will be rare for me to ever deal a bottom to myself. Lets say two cards to a buddy and 3 on the board is more than we need. In Holdem you can deal the flop face down and then flip them over! so consecutive bottoms are useful if you are a low down card cheat. Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
zaki_rafih99 Regular user 164 Posts |
Well you know how you said theres a click sound and how it looks funny. think of it like another sleight you mastered, at first you can do it .. but not perfectly. and eventually you get to the point where its flawless, no noise or anything. its the same thing, just one day you will pick up the cards after practising and it will be fine. try using the same finger even for all the deals (top, second and bottom). and just alternate, it seriously worked for me.
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi Tommy,
I'll take another look at the Forte bottom deal from GPS. I think that dealing the flop from the bottom of the deck is great for a Texas Hold'em demo, but I'd be terrified to do this under fire as everyone on the table will be focused on the deal. It would take a cheat with real courage and confidence to pull that one off. Your emerging bottom deal sounds awesome Tommy. Ever thought of putting out a clip of the deal? Hi MindPhantom, The notion of taking the deck from the cards seems to be a very helpful one. In fact I think might be at least part of the action in Andru's bottom deal. Have you seen this at all? I would value your observations. Regards, Paul H |
Logan Five Inner circle Northern California 1434 Posts |
Paul H,
Are you reffering to Andrew Wimhurst? I have his bd on tape. I don't know who Andru is. I can say this however.. I tried to learn the bd from Martin Nash's Charming Cheat Series and did get kinda good at it but the noise factor was really there. I started learning other ways of doing the strike and found Jerry Camero's tape. It took a while to " take the deck from the card"..but I think it has helped me. I currently only do one gaming routine with the bd " Maximum Risk" by Ortiz/the one inspired by Jason England ..so it works for me. All the best, Richard
Self concept is destiny..
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Paul
Real courage or real stupid, I am not sure which. It is scary to do anything at the table. Fear is a funny thing, you have to ask yourself what is the worst thing that can happen and then be stupid enough to kid yourself it wont be that bad and go for it. The more dangerous extreme is when you think your invisible and have no fear at all. As for the clip, I will consult Erdnase to see what he advises about demonstrating skill. I wish it was “awesome”, I would not be crying for help if it was. You are right it is bad timing to deal the flop. As Lancy Howard said in The Cincinnati Kid: “In the end it’s what it all comes down to, doing the wrong thing at the right time.” Thank you for your advice. I need to slow down and reconsider the options. Alniner zaki_rafih99 and MindPhantom thanks for the advice. Mind Phantom we are refering to “Andru Luvisi” deal, which can be seen at Cogitations site, if you are a member. It costs just $20 for 6 months. I say “just” because you get a good $20 worth there in my opinion. Every week a top card does an article or more sometimes, with video. I like it because they get you thinking as well as teaching some great things, it is all cards. I am not sure I think taking the deck rather than the card is good as I like to know where the deck is and your way can create mistiming. But each to his own and I am pleased it works for you. Regards Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts |
Just deal the bottom on the 3rd card of the flop.After 2 the mind will be slightly used to the cards being dealt plus the attention will be slightly more on the table at this point.
I think this would be the best time do deal a bottom
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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Alniner Loyal user Burlington, ON, Canada 254 Posts |
For dealing the flop, do a stud deal(picked this up from Weapons of the Card Shark). You take 2 from the top and 1 from the bottom. Looks great.
Skål
-- Alan |
Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts |
Check out what Steve forte says in the back of the David britland book.
He says you could accidentally take 2 from the top and then place one of them back. But what you really did was a magicians double deal taking the top and bottom card at the same time. Notice your mistake then put the bottom card back on top. So you have secretly transferred the bottom card to the top under cover of a mistake.
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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card123 Loyal user Button moon 208 Posts |
If your bottoms look good and your tops look bad , leave the aces on top and deal everyone from the bottom and then deal the aces to your hand from the top
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