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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Don't want to get bashed here, but I'm looking for ways to achieve the same of variated effect as Nu did with the acid test...I know where the answer lies, but not the ingredients...well, I do know how to replicate all but the bending of the cups from the "acid"
Is this effect an original? I think not, because I've read and seen other variations of this in Capricornian tales et al...Nu's version, however, may be considered his own... with that said, does anyone know some old roots of this effect? any help would be apprecitated and we can trade ideas PM style... Thanx for all the responses in my Pm's...everyone gave me the same premise I thought it was, and ill put it to use... |
mghia Veteran user Kymystical 387 Posts |
From what I saw it was nothing new. YOu can buy a nice set up from Hank Lee called Acid Madness with many different options from the easy to the more complex. Comes with test tubes and a stand,and a intersting gimmick to show a spoon (I think it was a spoon) dissolve.
Kevin Dunn does a great version with the real deal. |
Scott Xavier Inner circle 3672 Posts |
Or make your own at walmart...
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Osterlind has a very strong version as well, in the manual for his Stainless Steel Blindfold.
But the bigger question than "where can I find it" is why you are considering the "performer-committing-possible-suicide" as an entertainment premise (this applies equally to Russian Roulette and Banachek's Stabbed-in-the-Chest presentation). It's a double-edged sword: If your audience doesn't believe that they might soon be watching you die, then there's no suspense. If your audience truly believes that they might soon be watching you die, is that the position in which you really want to place your audience (if all they thought they were getting was a mindreading show)? There are also some weighty responsibility issues when doing effects of this nature -- such as, what emotional trauma are you unknowingly inflicting on the audience member who, literally or figuratively, pulls the trigger. Related example: In a famous psychology experiment, a member of the public was asked by a scientist to turn a knob and give increasingly painful shocks to a test subject. When it was disclosed that the "test subject" was actually another experimenter, and that the person turning the dial was actually the one being tested, exit therapy became necessary. I would urge anybody to consider the full consequences of your actions before performing this sort of demonstration. Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
I agree...but ethics is a slippery slope...I will have a great time doing this, no matter how it scares them, in fact I want it to scare them...
with a name like Necromancer you would think... lol just kidding...thanx for your insight... |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Consider the folks who like going to scary movies...
They know that it's all fake, but they willingly suspend all disbelief and allow themselves to be scared anyways. The same sort of thing happens at all good magic shows; the vast majority of the audience knows it's all tricks, but they allow themselves to enjoy the deception anyways. If properly built up, the premise of the performer putting their life on the line is just an accepted part of the entertainment.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
I'm certainly not one to mind giving a good scare. But there's a world of difference between experiencing the detached thrill of a scary movie and having your finger on the gun that could potentially kill the mentalist onstage.
Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Moderncelt Veteran user Twin Cities MN 343 Posts |
BabaKali: An interesting twist might be to do the effect where you borrow a valuable object that would be ruined or dammaged by acid but not by water, i.e. a watch, ring, hand, and have 3 tubes of "acid" and one tube of water. Give the lazy susan a spin and work it from that angle.
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-01 16:38, Necromancer wrote: True... that's why if you do decide to perform a Russian Roulette-type of routine, it's vitally important to prep the "trigger man" during pre-show to let them know what's going to happen and make sure they're all right with it. For more information about this pre-show process, check out Larry Becker's take on this in his "Stunners" book.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
magicismybad New user 1 Post |
I am confused about the whole trigger man thing. What does it mean to be the trigger man as opposed to the one who preps for the show? If this routine were to work properly, you would not need a point-of-contact as who the trigger person is, am I correct? I think that this routine is somewhat dangerous and should not be tried for those of have not practiced this type of trick before.
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Hi Philemon,
I agree with Larry's take. I also like Penn & Teller's position of using a law enforcement officer, which removes the public from the equation. Unfortunately, not everybody doing effects of this nature have put as much thought into their performance as these professionals, which is why I chimed in here. Hi Magicismybad, My point isn't about the apparent danger of the routine. It's about psychological trauma and irresponsibility with regard to the use of audience members, and the questionable taste exercised in inflicting it upon an unsuspecting crowd. On a related tangent: many magicians and mentalists have complained on this board about how magical performance continually fails to receive respect as an art form by members of the public. When one considers that daredevil presentations such as those discussed above are really, only appropriate at the circus -- where the audience expects to see its performers flirt with death and holds their efforts in a separate light from "serious" artists -- the public's perception of Magic doesn't strike me as being at all surprising. And back to Babakali -- Hi Baba, You saw this effect on Nu's special. It may not be an effect he invented, but he certainly can be credited with rediscovering it and making it his own by performing it on television. Do you think it is a good idea to jump on the "me too" bandwagon and invite the public to compare you to a televised performer? Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Good point Neil. I just thought it a good idea to have it in my repitoire...for a rainy day. It is not my intention to copy the guy, but I knew it was an old premise, and wanted to get to the root of it as I always do.
ah Hell, no one watches magic specials anyways... and Im just a hermit of a magi, waiting for people to cross my path to be "bizarr-ified"...no need for a stage, life is my stage... besides, I cant afford a "lazy susan!" thanx for all your input here. |
bloodyjack Veteran user Seattle WA 343 Posts |
Quote:
Hi Baba, You saw this effect on Nu's special. It may not be an effect he invented, but he certainly can be credited with rediscovering it and making it his own by performing it on television. Do you think it is a good idea to jump on the "me too" bandwagon and invite the public to compare you to a televised performer? While I agree with you that there are far too many "me too" magicians who see an effect on telly and then rush out and want to do it. Just from the Nu special alone there is a thread on any card at any number the pk engine and this one on the acid test. However I do not feel that NU has made it his own because he performed it on TV. There are many variations of this in print I even have some. Swami/mantra, Capricornia tales, the big black book (I think) and I am sure I have read a presentation in another book I own. The point is, that’s like saying The professor owns cups and balls because he did it on TV and no other magician can do it.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-03 16:19, bloodyjack wrote: Actually, if The Professor did the Cups on a major TV special and it was in my act, I would take it out immediately (with one caveat: provided I wasn't doing anything extremely different with it). Just because the Acid Test has been published numerous times doesn't mean that any of the authors has made it their trademark routine in the eyes of the public. Perhaps Nu hasn't done this either; I haven't seen the special yet. But if he has, and it was in my act, I would take it out (with the above caveat). In part, this is because I respect the work that others put into the creation/location and honing of distinctive performance material. In part, it's because I don't wish to be compared with a TV experience. But mostly, it's because I think it's far harder for me to be memorable as a performer if my material gives credence to the criticism, "all magicians/mentalists are the same." Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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bloodyjack Veteran user Seattle WA 343 Posts |
I have seen the show and it was one of many effects in his show, hardly a trademark routine. It did not even have a theme or any kind of story attached, it was set in a garage with a lazy Susan and some beakers of liquid. I can only guess the element of danger was all that was suppost to carry the effect. Cheltenham’s is certainly a far better read and I believe he does perform the stuff he writes but on saying that his would flop on TV
The only refreshing approach to mentalism on TV I have seen (it became available on DVD Monday last and I watched them all this weekend as well as the Nu shows) is the first season of Derran Brown from British TV outstanding.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
But I think Neil's point is still valid. You have to sit back and ask yourself, "Why do I immediately jump to do something that's been on TV?"
Think about it another way, do you think if some comedian came out on Letterman and did a wonderful line on plumbing that it would be wise for up & coming comedians to suddenly start working on plumbing lines? The idea to make fun of plumbers was out there, but now because someone does it you decide to do it too. Or, someone sings and interesting song they wrote so some unknown band decided to write up something similar. What would you say of the second band that now is just following behind? Sure there are cover bands, do you want to be a cover magician? Maybe some do... I like the added message in Neil's statement of trying to be memorable to your audiences and not someone who they will say, "Oh, wow, you did the same thing that guy did on TV?" When there's so much hidden material in books, lecture notes, magazines, old VHS tapes, DVDs, etc, why do you need to do what you just saw on TV... maybe, as someone said, people should title their acts "The Great Whatever... as seen on TV." Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-03 19:26, Greg Arce wrote: whatever man, I was just trying to find the darn roots of the old effect...so what if a tv special reminded me of the strength of the effect...the fact is I was inspired to find MY OWN variation of the effect, and have done so with success... you mentalists SWEAR you have just the right angle on the craft...off to "penny for your thoughts" you go! no hard feelings?? LOL |
bloodyjack Veteran user Seattle WA 343 Posts |
[quote]On 2005-05-03 19:26, Greg Arce wrote:
But I think Neil's point is still valid. me too there are way to many "me too" magicians I was just making a point that its an old effect written up in many many books and certainly not an exclusive effect. Neil does a seance type show and I bet a lot is based on old seance type stuff so what, its the presentation that counts and Nu,s presentation of that effect kinda sucked and would not be worth copying anyway.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-03 20:41, bloodyjack wrote: bottom line...and yeah who wants to copy Nu's "style" anyhow.... |
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