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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Ah, the practice of forgetting. Now that's almost a presentation premise all of its own.
The card will be forgotten, yet the signature remains. The word written on the billet is there so it can be recovered later if you want it. What's your name again?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
I could have a lot of fun with that seance, Leland ! An angry disturbed spirit might just go poltergeist (a bizarrist's version of "postal"? ;-) on us mortals, knocking things over, raising havoc, blowing out the candles, perhaps smashing some glass or crystal - and in the extreme - a short lived demonic possession ! I might have trouble getting my friends and neighbors to come back for next year's halloween party though. I guess I just start holding open house then !
Todsky, I hereby dare you to take up Caleb on that suggestion, and try to burn a hundred: we'll see how strongly you feel about the "worthlessness" of paper money then ! :evilgrin: I understand your point, but I think maybe what you haven't understood yet is that most everyone already understands this - money is symbolic - the system of money was devised to make fiscal transactions more flexible - the alternative is to go back to the old bartering days. Perhaps I want to "buy" your goat, but you're not interested in my pottery set and afghan, then what ? What if I have nothing else to offer ? The barter system had serious problems. With the introduction of the monetary system, this was mostly fixed. You may or may not also be unaware of the fact that money is backed up by something slightly more real and tangible - gold bullion. That's why there's all that gold at Fort Knox and New York City and who knows where else, it's what the Treasury of the USA uses to back up those promise notes and legal tenders. Of course, one may ask, what use is Gold then, other than the fact that it's a shiny, heavy, soft metal ? Well, other than the fact that gold is the world's best natural conductor of electricity, is rust proof, is the most malleable metal on earth (gold leaf) and a few other nice properties, not much, but then, need is always relative. In "Dune", water was the priceless commodity. Here, 3/4 of our planet's surface is covered in water. (Clean water is still a problem in some places, believe it or not) But a monetary system is better than no system, or medieval bartering. Now, I'm sure I may have a minor technical inaccuracy here or there somewhere, any fiscal historians out there feel free to elaborate. But, back to the buddha discussion.. In a sense, nothing is "real", or at least, as real as we perceive it to be. Let me elaborate before the nice men in white coats are sent out to get me: Matter is essentially highly "compressed" energy, as expressed in E=mc^2. Even within the matter itself, nothing is truly solid, although a neutron star comes the closest - a teaspoon of neutron star material (solid neutrons packed tightly) would weigh anywhere from half a billion tons to 10 billion tons.. the estimates vary.. so a lot of what you're looking at is just.. space, even though it seems solid enough. Why doesn't everything just pass through everything else then ? Nuclear forces, or charges, if you prefer. It's whacky stuff to sit and ponder, but when you really think about it, it does all kind of sound like an illusion, even by all the current known laws of physics. The vast amount of space of an atom is just that, space. The nucleus is a tiny thing, the electrons whizzing around in many different "orbits" or "shells", form the actual diameter of the atom, (valence shell at the outermost orbit) but mostly it's just space. On the molecular level, one level up from the atom, it's much the same story, with molecules being packed looser and looser as you go from one state of matter such as solid, to the next, liquid, then to gas. (yeahyeahyeah plasma too). Gee.. I guess I did remember something from my high school chemistry ! Again, if we have any physicists about, please correct any technical inaccuracies.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
All of these powers would be nothing, as we'd have to dream of something else. It's a thing that defines us as human. The grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
A number of these posts mentioned control, in various ways. Control is the child of fear. In American Sign Language, the sign for control is best described as being like holding the reins of a hors, when you're driving a wagon or carriage. I have an image in my head of some poor paranoid person (maybe a politician) trying to hold more and more reins, trying to control the things he perceives as demons. And yet it's a paradox. The more reins one holds, the more one thinks it's necessary to hold. No wonder they want power. Too bad we can't keep them from it. The best magic, would be to have a world where we didn't cling to fear, no matter how we disguise it to ourselves. The buddha and others have all said that it's the clinging that gets in the way of awareness. Look at the lillies, how they grow... As to tricks, I liked the idea of a signed card losing its numbers and pips, but keeping the signature.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
I'm not quite subversive enough just yet to burn a $100 bill. However, Mystician, I believe that American currrency is no longer pegged to gold, and the amount that is in circulation is now quite arbitrary. Anyhow, why should there be a monopoly on printing money?
You wrote: "Perhaps I want to "buy" your goat, but you're not interested in my pottery set and afghan, then what ? What if I have nothing else to offer ? The barter system had serious problems." Then you go and find someone else with a goat who wants your pottery. Or get me twelve chickens from Ishmael (he likes your pottery), and then I'll give you my goat. Sure, it takes longer to make the deals, but it's more fun, you get to meet many interesting people in the market while wheeling and dealing. The capitalist system has serious problems: We can get whatever we want almost immediately, instant gratification, resources are being used up because or this, forests vanishing, species going extinct, air and water filled with carcinogens and other poisons, people apathetic and depressed because they live in a culture that has become void of meaning, where our purpose is simply to consume. The soul withers and dies in these conditions. Money is the opiate of the masses. I think I'd like to do a miser's dream routine based on that theme.
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
Hi Todsky,
You might be right about the gold bullion, somewhere along the line, that may have changed, but it was originally the idea, and I'm pretty sure that gold is still used in int'l trade. You wrote, "Then you go and find someone else with a goat who wants your pottery. Or get me twelve chickens from Ishmael (he likes your pottery), and then I'll give you my goat. Sure, it takes longer to make the deals, but it's more fun, you get to meet many interesting people in the market while wheeling and dealing." What if nobody wants my pottery , or no one else even has a goat ? I don't think that model is very realistic, honestly. And what if we're talking about fruit, to fend off scurvy, or medicine ? Who has time to go searching down somebody with something to trade ? Just look at the for sale forums here for a an example - some people have "looking for" posts that go unanswered for months, or items for sale that nobody ever buys. Ever put something up for sale in the Tradin' Times, or the paper ? It's a crap shoot. Sure, lots of transactions do occur, but it's by no means a sure-fire, guaranteed thing. Again, a monetary system fixes that. By the way, that's not the same thing as capitalism - money is used by socialist, monarchy, and communist financial systems alike. The only people still using the barter system are 3rd and 4th world countries or peoples. Captialism is a financial, and to a degree, political system, (debatable, I'm sure) that allows for individualism, self-destiny, competition, and a free market - supply and demand. Is it perfect ? Hah ! Of course not !! Are socialism or communist systems ? Barf, they're even worse ! Is this because of the system ? Not so much as because of human nature. No "system" will ever be perfect, because humankind is not perfect - the creation cannot become greater or purer than the creator. There exists the possiblity of corruption in every facet of life. The best defense against corruption is a system of checks and balances, which is one reason the USA, for example, as 3 branches of federal government - Legislative (congress), Executive (President and cabinet) and Judicial (Supreme Court). And even here, corruption, like a weed, manages to grow here and there. It always will. To elaborate just a little further, our system is not pure capitalism, there's a good deal of socialism stirred in too: unemployment, disability, social security, medicare, welfare, the Labor Act, The Sherman Act, the Clayton Act, and hundreds of other smaller government programs and laws, are all anti-monopolist or socialist in nature. I look at this as a good thing, because it too fulfills the need for checks and balances - we all know Capitalism run amok, without anti-trust laws to prevent monopolies, child labor laws, etc, can turn quite evil. Some contend it already is, current laws notwithstanding, but those peple are usually either ill-informed, or dissenters of some sort. History has proven time and time again however that any government, without some kind of check or balance, inevitably becomes corrupt. There's always the "option" of anarchy, and anyone who truly believes that anarchy, as a system, can work, is verifiably pathological. Or incredibly, unbelievably naive. Anyway, I've gotten way off track with this, maybe as a saving grace it will inspire somebody to come up with an effect or story based on capitalism vs. socialism or something like that - a bizarre routine using money or coins, evil spirits corrupting the politician... any takers ? I'm dry.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
..."maybe as a saving grace it will inspire somebody to come up with an effect or story based on capitalism vs. socialism or something like that - a bizarre routine using money or coins, evil spirits corrupting the politician... "
How about something like this: a coin routine where you're trying to spread the money evenly between four people(four spots on the table), but the coins keep assembling under one pile (the capitalist's pile). And maybe it ends with the three penniless peasants deciding to revert back to barter, and one ends up with some rice, and one with a little toy goat, and one with a tiny afghan carpet. How cute is that?
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Once upon a time, money was made of gold or silver, and paper money could be exchanged for a fixed weight of gold or silver, as stated on the note. At one time in England, the gold coins of Ireland had to be exchanged for copper coins. Swift wrote a small book on that. Anyone know if it was Issac Newton who conceived of that plan.
BTW, I've explored the history of money, and have something that takes a coin all the way back to a pile of salt.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-17 22:43, todsky wrote: That's great Todsky ! Seriously - that's a neat application ! You're mixing politics and magic, of course, so, choose your audience wisely, but that'd be a riveting verion of coin matrix (or whatever) for a lot of people, I'm sure.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
Jonathan, good point, salt was paid to Roman soldiers because it was such a valuable and rare commodity back then, and that's where the word 'salary' comes from, 'sal' or 'sel' being the latin root for 'salt'.
So here's another idea, Mystician: Maybe the routine is about the history of money, from salt to seashells to coinage to paper money, to credit cards, to numbers in a digital virtual banking system. So the progression (or regression?) is from salt to shells to metal to paper to plastic to electrical impulses. And maybe the surprise end of the routine: there were some old cultures that used huge round stones as money (produce a big rock, haha!, maybe a foam rock).
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
That's also where the phrase, "worth his salt" comes from.
Roman soldiers earning their pay.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hiya, Mystician:
Your response had to do with the nature of what is real, and of our evolving understanding of that reality. You observed, for example, that solid matter is really quite porous, and that matter and energy are interchangeable. I can't disagree with these observations, but will note that they are essentially physical (having to do with the natural world). The Zen view is a metaphysical one (having to do with the supernatural world), which does not debate the relative porosity of solid materials or the transmutability of matter into energy. Rather, it posits that all reality is unreal -- not merely existent in a different form from what is visible to the eye or deducible by reason, but non-existent. In Buddhistic thought, neither the nuclei nor the interstitial spaces between them are real. Nor this analysis. Nor this exchange or the system on which it's being conducted. And so on. We take it for granted that there is ultimately an orderly, knowable universe, even if that universe unfolds (to our view) in progressively more detailed and surprising ways. These progressive revelations can enhance our knowledge of the universe, leading to greater understanding. But to the Buddhist, there is ultimately nothing; enlightment means there is no consciousness to be aware of the nothingness. Leland |
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Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
That's weird. I could've sworn I replied ... but no post here.
Maybe I did in one of those parallel universes .. Anyway, I understand what you're saying Leland. I was attempting to be agreeable to all parties, in a way, with an obtuse middleground approach to it all. But even nothing is somethng, isn't it ? And what happened to, "Cogito ergo sum", I think, therefore I am " ? I'm more partial to that philosphy.
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hiya, Mystician:
I, too, am partial to the Cogito: To think is to exist, as thinking requires a thinker; if thought is negated, then who or what exists to do the negating? But that is logic, not Buddhism. As for "something=nothing," no agreement there. Nothing is the complete absence of everything, where there is no extension in time or space nor even the potential for such extension. If there is height, length, width, mass, or thought -- any attribute or potential attribute whatsoever -- then whatever "it" is, it is not nothing. Leland |
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