|
|
ThoughtThief Regular user 183 Posts |
A couple of (sadomasochistic) members have asked me to collect my posts concerning the talented and mischevious Derren Brown in one place for the convenience of other (sadomasochistic) members wishing to read them. I've added headings for clarity, and other users' names appearing in the original posts have been deleted and replaced with "*****"; but otherwise, here they are as originally posted:
DERREN BROWN ON COLD-READING: For members, such as myself, who are uncomfortable with presentations of "cold-reading" in the traditional sense, I want to suggest a careful reading of "Cold and Nasty," Derren Brown's essay on cold-reading in his book, "Absolute Magic"(pp. 103-111). Derren has come to reject what he calls "the unpleasantness that is in the very roots of the common variety [cold-reading]," i.e., cold-reading directed at revealing supposed insights about a person's personality, challenges and future. "Absolute Magic," p.104. Derren professes disdain for the "reader-client" model of cold-reading where the mentalist assumes the roles of psychic, counselor, comforter and/or therapist. Id. However, not wanting to forego the "powerful illusion that cold-reading offers" (id.), Derren instead adopts cold-reading techniques to enhance some of his mind-reading effects, particularly demonstrations of apparent telepathy where the crux of the effect is the mentalist's revelation of glimpsed or otherwise stolen bits of information (from billets, peeks, clipboards and other pre-show methods, etc.). Derren demonstrates this application of cold-reading techniques with examples of "reveals" he has given in a routine where he asks the spectator to "secretly" jot down and think about a childhood memory. Id. at p. 107. Having glimpsed, in the four examples given,"Pecan pie at the cottage," "Playing guitar," "when we got Bouncer, our dog," and "going away with my parents," Derren sets out the surprisingly elaborate and effective revelations he managed to construct using deduction, observed response and other cold-reading techniques. See Id. at 107-109. As Derren puts it, he uses cold-reading techniques for "building up the picture" he paints when revealing a volunteer's thought. Id. at 109. I, and many others, have long used cold-reading techniques in precisely this fashion to enhance the illusion of apparent mind-reading. So even if you don't care to become a "reader" per se, but do wish to greatly enhance the effectiveness of your mentalism, study, learn and practice cold-reading techniques. And beg, borrow or steal a copy of "Absolute Magic," not only for its intriguing exposition on cold-reading with top drawer examples of the art of revealing information, but more importantly, for some of the most valuable and insightful essays ever published on the subject of the performer determining a VISION of what MEANING he wants his magic to have, and then developing that vision and staying true to it with every decision he makes. DISENCHANTMENT WITH MR. BROWN - YOU MEAN NOT NLP OR OTHER POWERS? Don't feel at all foolish, *******. It means that Derren has achieved precisely what he set out to do when he hit upon his particular "dressing" for mentalism. Derren set out to update his packaging of mentalism to make it more plausible--and hence more palatable and believable--to modern audiences. By clothing his demonstrations in the parlance of NLP, mind control and the like, he has given the audience an "out" and made what he does seem factually (albeit remotely) possible, but no less remarkable. One needn't believe in psychic phenomenon to "believe" what Derren does, so the wall of skepticism that can separate the "traditional" mentalist from his audience comes tumbling down more readily, or is even obliterated. Derren WANTS his audience to think they know what he is doing, at least in a general sense. For example, as he explains in his book, "Absolute Magic" and on his video tape, "The Devil's Picture Book," he shies away from presenting a book test as a demonstration of telepathy or clairvoyance and instead presents it as a demonstration of hyper rapid memorization, requiring the most intense concentration imaginable--which he supposedly has achieved through his ardent practice of mind training, NLP, etc. He will insist on 15-20 minutes with the book to prepare himself, and then he's off to the races. In other words, he seeks to make his abilities seem plausible, and therefore more credible, yet astonishing nonetheless. Another case in point is Derren's presentation of his vision of what the process of transferring an unspoken thought from one person to another (trained) person would actually look like were it possible. Derren makes it a visceral process. Again, he wants to make the ability seem at least barely plausible so as not to require of his audiences a leap of faith to the paranormal. So when Derren asks a participant to begin the process of "telling" him the name of a card (for example) without saying anything, Derren will place himself directly in front of the person, mere inches away, and instruct the person to "tell me" over and over again, first the value then the suit, while Derren looks intently at the person's throat twitches, pupil response, etc.--the supposed clues that are the key to discerning and deciphering unspoken thought. Not psychic, "just" trained sensitivity and hard work, which the audience finds eminently acceptable and equally incredible. Derren is not the first performer to travel this route, but his consistency and clarity of vision, combined with his obvious talent, intelligence and charm has made for a delicious stew indeed. Having said the above, Derren does make excellent use of psychology and linguistics in his routines, in particular in the context of his verbal card forces--ESPECIALLY his marvelous verbal force of the Jack of Spades. One certainly could argue that such techniques are a kind of mind control, yes? DERREN BROWN ON NLP; DERREN'S CONVENTIONAL METHODS AND UNCONVENTIONAL VISION [quote] On 2002-10-22 21:21, ***** wrote: Yes also known as NLP! while he may use a whole range of techniques from traditional to not so traditional he does use some genuine NLP.[quote] Actually, *****, Derren himself might beg to differ. Here, in his own words, is Derren's take on NLP and its application to the performance of mentalism: "Understanding the role [in the performance of mentalism] of suggestion need not be daunting, nor does one need to get into such exaggerated nonsenses as NLP to use it." Brown, Derren, Absolute Magic, p. 53. "If you already have a knack for communicative subtlety, then the 'elusive' part of [NLP's claim to be 'elusively obvious'] is rendered redundant: the 'art of people-handling' becomes, in Stephen Fry's memorable words, 'the art of the-so-f******-obvious-it-makes-your-nose-bleed.' Speaking as someone who has practised, trained, studied and worked with NLP for some time, it seems ot me to be a mixture of part common sense (which are the parts that no-one can seriously call peculiar to NLP), part reasonably effective techniques for turning the mind from such low-level pathologies as phobias and so on, and the rest over-hyped and evangelically-packaged seductive rubbish."* Id.* Every method and technique that Derren uses to achieve his effects is traditional mentalist's fare, as Derren himself tells anyone (in the profession). There is NOTHING non-traditional about his methods; he uses gimmicks, steals, switches, cold-reading, glimpses and word-play: "There have been times when I have gone out with an ITR fixed inside my jacket, a thumb-writer in pocket and a magnet strapped to my knee . . . . With them I can perform miracles that would be difficult to match without this preparation . . . ." Absolute Magic, p. 116 "Very often I find myself in this position when I am performing my presentation of the 'Invisible Deck'. Absolute Magic, p. 130 " . . . I perform [a routine] where I have a person think of a childhood memory. This can be revealed and elaborated on through a mixture of cold-reading and billet or pre-show technique." Absolute Magic, p. 107 "The steals I use [of a man's wallet to enable me to copy numbers off his credit cards] are essentially standard, but here I will concentrate on the misdirection involved." Absolute Magic, p. 128 "In this position [seated at a table scribbling on a napkin], I can look directly at the [stolen] information on my lap although I appear to be looking at what I am writing on the napkin." Absolute Magic, p. 131 Derren's METHODS are entirely traditional. It is Derren's carefully considered VISION of the MEANING he wants his magic to convey to those who witness and participate in it (Absolute Magic, pp. 39-47), and his steadfast commitment to developing and furthering that vision in every choice he makes (Absolute Magic, the book)--which sets Derren apart and is largely responsible for his success.** I would encourage every magician, metalist or euphemism of your choice to read "Absolute Magic." In my opinion, its insights are at least as important as anything published concerning the elevation of magic from mere amusement to truly emotional entertainment. ThoughtThief *The views expressed by Mr. Brown in this regard are not offered to suggest this writer's agreement, or disagreement with them. **That, and Mr. Brown's obvious charisma, talent and intelligence, of course: "If an unappealing magician with no presence presents effects trivially but with all of Mr.[Kenton] Knepper's ['Wonder Words'] techniques brilliantly at hand, I don't feel that he will succeed magically as much as a performer with immense charisma equipped with just a natural knowledge of word-power." Absolute Magic, p. 54. "LIFT" AND "REMINISCENCE" Regarding Lift and Reminiscence, it appears that the "you can't have it so you must/grass is greener" phenomena have spread like viruses. By not including these particular routines from his working repetoire in the mass published version of Pure Effect, Derren has inadvertently (or perhaps knowingly?) elevated these effects to mythic proportions. There is no denying the intelligence and cleverness of Derren's thinking in structuring these routines, but would you still clamour for them knowing the following?: 1. With both Lift and Reminiscence, the "jig is up" or the effect gravely undermined as soon as the subject talks to her friends and other spectators. 2. Particularly in the case of Reminiscence (the "apparently devining the detailed memories of a subject concerning a life experience" routine), the subject's reaction to the supposed revelations of her inner most secret thoughts will be oddly muted--certainly not the "oh my god!, how did you know that?, I'm going to p** myself!!" outbursts one would expect. (On the video performance of this routine, the subject's reaction was sort of a bemused, "cat who ate the canary" expression.) Frankly, IMO there are more satisfying applications in the literature and elsewhere of the "dual reality" (the subject experiences one effect and the audience experiences another) and "instant (witting or unwitting) stooge" principles employed by Derren in these routines--particularly in the case of Reminiscence. The key to a successful dual reality effect is that both "realities" must be sufficiently astonishing to create a reaction in the subject that is consistent with the effect that the audience is supposed to be witnessing. Taking nothing away from Derren's obvious talent and creativity, I'm not sure that Reminiscence gets there. Because we cannot see a thought being transferred, and only the subject knows for sure what the thought is and whether the mentalist has "gotten" it, an audience viewing mentalism must first and formeost take its cue directly from the reaction of the person whose thoughts are supposedly being "read." If the reaction of a subject to the mentalist's revelation that "the waiter's hair was red" is a shrug of the shoulders or sly smile--anything less than a hand-over-the-mouth gasp of astonishment--how is the audience to respond? Precisely. I have no doubt but that Derren's admirable desire for "minimal visible compromise" led him to choose the dual reality method for Reminiscence. He apparently didn't want to resort to pre-show work; didn't want the subject to write anything down in front of the audience (eliminating billets, p*** devices and impr****** devices); didn't want to reveal primarily numbers, letters or short words (eliminating NW) and only after the subject announced them (eliminating NW and d***** wr*****); and didn't want to rely on telepathy. Given these self-imposed constraints, therefore, Derren chose dual reality, and the "visible compromise" he made to this method was that the audience sees the subject select a tarot card to deterimine the kind of memory or experience to think about (relationship, career, travel, etc.) However, some would argue that what was sacrificed in real-time effect and post-perormance effect was not worth the "reduction" in visible compromise. Indeed, some would contend that the visible compromise made was not less than the visible compromises inherent in other methods, only different, and that the effect would be strengthened substantially (or at least the weaknesses diminished) by using one of the other arrows in the mentalist's quiver. But if curiosity still gets the better of you, then by all means keep searching for these "holy grail" routines. That's just one person's opinion, of course. THE END. |
xersekis Special user 591 Posts |
Some nice articulate posts.
I particularly agree with the last phrased quote >> >> **That, and Mr. Brown's obvious charisma, talent and intelligence, of course: "If an unappealing magician with no presence presents effects trivially but with all of Mr.[Kenton] Knepper's ['Wonder Words'] techniques brilliantly at hand, I don't feel that he will succeed magically as much as a performer with immense charisma equipped with just a natural knowledge of word-power." Absolute Magic, p. 54. << It is not the words - repeat - it is not the rote repetition of phrases that makes something work - it is the delivery. A charismatic performer armed with ordinary word power is more effective OBVIOUSLY than someone who works trivially and without charisma, and who can only say words and word phrases - and lacks the apparent know how to deliver the word phrases. So the point doesn't mean too much. That's like saying a charismatic ventiloquist is better than one that is not charismatic but knows all the standard one liners. It should be that - a charismatic performer, armed with ordinary word knowledge, who takes the time to learn the Wonder Words or NLP approach (because there are many aspects of NLP)can and will be a more dynamic, powerful and persuasive performer for having learned additional skills and talents. The adition of these studies enhances and helps a performer to be even better. But is a great performer better than a mediocre one that uses hypnosis ....duh... of course. So the obvious is stated, but it is misleading. Anyway - again you have posted some very nice thoughts. Enjoy! Rex |
Gary Veteran user Market Harborough, UK 367 Posts |
Yes Michael,
If you are intersted in heightening performance impact, then it's a must-have. Not written in the same vein of other such books on the subject and the humour may offend some sensetive souls out there, but a book you will return to time and time again.
"I can see clearly now, the brain has gone"
- Anon |
MANDRAGORE New user N.Ireland 72 Posts |
Hi guys!
Before quoting the book did you ask Derren Brown his authorisation? You could get sued for using them. ben |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
From the U.S. Copyright Office's website:
http://www.copyright.gov/faq.html#q47 How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentages of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See Circular 21 and FL 102.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
Ken Regular user Belfast 112 Posts |
Philemon
The problem with the direct quotes from his book are that they reveal specific methods that are intended only for those who paid for privilege to know. Only Derren Brown can give permission for them to be posted in a public forum. Ken |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
I'm sorry, Ken, but I don't see how the quotes that ThoughtThief has listed "reveal specific methods."
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts |
I amnot a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I am a writer by trrade and that looks like Fair Use to me.
I would imagine that Derren, if he wished be be a jerk and stupid besides, could make a case to the contrary and take it to court. It is, however, my guess that he'd lose. It is also my guess that Derren, who is reputed to be far from a jerk and fairly bright besides, would recognize the posts thus far as attracting people to his book and be glad of the worthwhile publicity. It's certainly closer to the top of my shopping list than it was before. |
MANDRAGORE New user N.Ireland 72 Posts |
I wonder how you would feel (Philemon) if somebody would quote not a line but pages of your book, if you have one? and if you can't see the techniques that Ken mentioned re-read again and maybe you will understand.
Ben |
E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
ThoughtThief might just be Darren Brown.
E-Leoni |
DB Disciple New user England 4 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-11-13 10:34, E-Leoni wrote: d!E!rren!!! |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-11-13 09:54, MANDRAGORE wrote: Quoting pages would indeed be a copyright violation, but that's not what ThoughtThief has done. And the 'techniques' are only obvious to those who are already familiar with them.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
GothicBen Veteran user England 353 Posts |
Well said, Philemon!
|
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown (again?!) - collected posts of TT (1 Likes) |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |