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RWhit Regular user 151 Posts |
Is the magic "box "idea dead..David Copperfield last time I saw him only used one trick box type trick.the one where he is shrunk or squashed by Andre Kole.
When a person gets in a box,does not the audience think that the box did the trick. Levitations, predictions, and such get away from the trick box leaving the audience with no idea (usually) |
rtgreen Inner circle Portland, Oregon 1322 Posts |
I wouldn't say the use of cabinets is dead, but I would say that the design of illusions has turned away from fancy cabinet-style designs. If something looks like a "magic box" then the audience is going to assume the trick is in the apparatus. If, however, the box design is modified or downplayed, the attention can return to the magician and the effect. If you think of Copperfield's show, for example, he actually used quite a bit of cabinet illusions. His current show opens with a shadow box, though the audience sees it as a platform surrounded by canvas. The car appearance is a cabinet illusion, but the cabinet is made of cloth instead of wood. Many years ago, the steel plate penetration was done with a mirror and two boxes, so it could be argued that the cloth covering is still a cabinet. Finally, the vanish for the Portal illusion is a metal cabinet on a crane.
My feelings on this are that in the past, magicians were seen as world travelers who had collected their magical skills. But now, everyone is a world traveler (whether in reality or virtually), so the magician has become a person who had developed their inner magical ability. Consiquently, the props and cabinets are no longer magical items themselves, but holders and display devices for the magician while he performs his magic. Thanks, Richard |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
To expand on rtgreen...
Some "boxes" have become pyramids, tubes, and other non'square shapes. The advantage to this is the audience will be less able to visualize where a person might hide. Many people are aware to the space available inside a box...remember when you were a kid and played in cardboard box forts and stuff? |
Dave Dorsett Veteran user Macomb, Illinois 345 Posts |
Unfortunately, no.
As long as there are "performers" out there who thnk posing and pushing make a magic act, there will be boxes. Before the flames begin, this is no indictment of those who actually put thought, time, character, scripting, stage direction and rehearsal into a show. I reference only those who wouldn't recognize themselves in the first classification.
Dave Dorsett
Douglas~Wayne Illusioneering |
mvmagic Inner circle Has written 1322 Posts |
Richard is propably the first person to say outloud that the much-raved "boxless magic" of David Copperfield is actually box magic with new types of boxes... And before someone starts nitpicking, yes his magic really is pretty much boxless if one thinks of boxes only in terms of solid walls and squarenes. If you have a defined space of whatever shape (and material) which hides someone from view for a certain effect, that doesn't differ from a box very much, does it? I am not saying I don't like David's stuff and his magic, I very much do, just staing a fact there.
Too bad that our profession is of such nature that some of our incredible demonstrations require some cover or a hiding place et cetera. I have done a good deal of stuff without boxes, using canvas cabinets. They have a very practical side to them: they cost less, are easier to pack and handle. As for the magical aspect, its purely psychological that those effects seem more magical. Imagine that you see two magicians who both make a car appear on a raised platform and both use the very same method. First one uses a big fancy box. Second one uses simple white sheets to make walls around the platform. I bet that most of us thinks the 2nd one is much better-yet they both have a space you cant see into during the magic, that space is just created diferently. In many effects using a base, the box has a function all of you are aware of. Making stuff without boxes could very well advance our art, take the designs further, improve things. In many cases that would require re-thinking, almost starting from scratch, but when has that been a bad thing? Dave said for the umpteenth time the real fact that remains after all the boxes, cloths and cabinets: talent and dedication count, they are the important things. A guy with rich daddy can have Dave Mendoza build a fabulous, spinning and sparkling all aluminum contraption which produces 3 dozen people and bore everyone to death with it, whereas a talented guy can make wonders with a simple box. Just think what Mike Cavaney does with scissors, some cutlery and a chicken! (ok, that's not box trick anyway but the talent point is very valid)
Sent from my Typewriter
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Nope. Box magic can be good magic, and good magic will always find an audience. It may run in "trends", but I think we'll always have them. True, DC may be shying away, but who among us has the advantage of always performing in a stage environment where we can control all angles and sightlines? As a banquet/convention peformer, I NEED boxes frequently!
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Matt Kap New user Seattle, Washington 67 Posts |
I personally still like box illusions. I think the audience gets suspicious if a show is studded with numerous cabinets, and castered props - but it has an old school aspect to it. Boxes are part of the history of magic. When you think of a classic magician you think of tuxedo tails, wand, rabbit, top hat, and cabinets.
I have always wanted to do a "cliche" illusion show including all of these classic images not often found in modern shows. Magic is like fashion - one year it can be modern, and then the next you recycle back to the depths of the past. Who knows what our audience wants next. Getting back to the original question, I think you can disprove the audiences notions of the trickery of boxes by using smaller form fitting cabinets. Million Dollar Mystery, Shadow Box, & Twister. These illusions have mystery to them. The assistance doesn't just climb in and leave the audience wondering if she is really in there. -MATT KAP
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious." -Albert Einstein
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
There is almost no place in Wizard style magic for box illusions. We may use the occasional treasure chest or small box, but we have to constantly be thinking "outside the box" when it comes to illusions. It's kind of like doing street magic on a stage. A street magician can't drag box illusions along, either.
But when you come right down to it, there are a lot of box illusions that don't really NEED to be boxed. The appearing arch is one example. If you're going to appear, just do it. No need to set up an archway just for that. Especially on a stage. If you're in a banquet hall situation, something like Jim Gerrish's Utility Cabinet - the handheld version - (PVC Pipe - Book 1) provides box-like conditions, but only for the second or two they are needed- then it's just a screen of curtains again. Bryce's screen is another example, because the screen is seen as a background, not a box. The arguments you're seeing FOR boxes are financial ones, coming from those who have a large investment in time and money on the things cluttering up the garage. Sometimes it's just hard to let go. I've made a museum of my old stage boxes.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Spellbinder. I have seen many magicians who perform street magic, use box illusions. I know I have.
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Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
On the streets of Montreal, I have seen street magicians doing things like sword cabinets, broom suspensions, zig zags, and sub trunks. They always gather a massive crowd and seem to rake in the cash for their performances. They pull up in a van or hatchback of somesort, unload, do their show several times in the afternoon, pack up and move elsewhere. I don't live in Montreal, but everytime I visit, the're out there, and the people love it. Creates quite an atmosphere.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
RWhit Regular user 151 Posts |
Street buskers with illusions..I saw this in paris in the 1980 s the sub trunk; It seemed very effortful-also now the money is split in half. Is there a person of note that does excellent at this yet?
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
Cyril and the other Xtreme Magic X-Team members are setting new standards for street illusions with nary a box in sight. The whole idea of Xtreme Magic is the element of surprise followed by shock and awe, which is completely lost the minute you drag out a box of some kind. Examples: Head off shoulders; the Lean; pulling real items out of advertising photos (the hamburger or bottle of water). I'm looking forward to a boxless Head Twister from the X-Team next.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Two thoughts and a conclusion for my 2 cents.
Thought 1. Every performer is an entertainer with their own unique persona. If what you do with a prop is entertaining, then it shouldn't matter whether it is a box or not. Thought 2. The audience is not a constant. What might play well for one audience, may not play well for another audience. Conclusion. Bring whatever is going to be entertaining to the people you are going to be playing to. Just a thought, or two. All the best, Rob |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
RWhit- I understand your point about it seeming like more effort then its worth to busk with illusions. Some enjoy performing illusions so the extra effort might not matter to them. As for splitting the money in half, the buskers I saw had way bigger crowds, no offense to close up magic, but sometimes illusions can generate more interest from passerbys as opposed to a guy with a deck of cards. But this will depend on each individual performer. But a big illusion might catch their eye from people just walking by or from people far away..."Hey look at that guy over there, he is levitating a girl on a broom, wow!"...as apposed to "hey look at that guy over there doing card tricks, you know my uncle does some pretty cool card tricks..." You get the idea.
Also using the bigger illusions allowed for them to play for a larger audience since people could see what was going on and not lose interest from way back in the crowd, generating a lot more money in the end. Also I know some of the buskers were also husband and wife teams, so the money was all going to the same place. I think it is effective for some, but might not be effective for others. It can go either way really.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
I have a boxless head twister!!! So does Andrew Mayne.
I agree with Peter on how an illusion can draw a bigger crowd. This is one of the elements that is not discussed in the street magic forums. Everybody assumes street magic is what David Blaine, THEM, and Criss Angel do. Although they do their magic in the show on the street, their acts would not be suitable or work at a street/busking festival setting. You need the bigger crowds for the bigger "hats". Why work continuous for an hour for a hundred dollars when you can get 3 hundred or more in a 1/2 hour circle street show? |
tharos New user Hanau / Germany 1 Post |
I think props are a little overrated in my opinion the story around makes the magic.
So it is not so important if box are used or not as long as it fits into the story. And sometimes some Illusionists think that the boxes will do all the work for them and that's definetly not the case. As long as used with the whole picture in mind boxes will never vanish from good shows.
lets bring back some magic to the world.
And sorry for the bad english |
Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-09-29 16:20, mrbilldentertainer wrote: I haven't seen YOUR boxless head twister, so I can't comment, but I've seen Andrew Mayne's and his definitely has a box. It may be a cardboard box, but it's still a box. Why not simply grab your own head by the ears and twist it around 360 degrees like in the Exorcist? Maybe spit out a little green vomit as a finale. THAT would be Xtreme! Before you say it can't be done, think about it HARD! Ten years ago, I couldn't imagine anyone taking his head off and holding it in his hands.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Andrew Mayne has one that does not use a box, but a different item. It is in his book Body Morphin'. He has more than one head twister effect. The one in body morphin is a little more impromptu as you can use a simple readily available item.
Mine uses part of one of Mayne's idea and another. I have put them together. Yes it does require a cover, but is not a box. I am currently developing one like the one you mentioned above "Why not simply grab your own head by the ears and twist it around 360 degrees like in the Exorcist?". There is a lot to work out since it requires something special for the whole body. |
kcedelcycib New user 77 Posts |
In a MagicBroadcast.com interview, Jim Steinmeyer said -
Quote:
There's a reason to not have boxes, and there's a reason to have boxes. The more you get into magic, the more you'll understand that. |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Nice quote kcedelcycib. See, sometimes us oldtimers do make sense.
All the best, Rob |
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