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Mr Amazing Special user 617 Posts |
Fellows,
I'm considering intimate dinner-type performances and realized my regular stuff is a bit restricted for what I have in mind. I work professionally as a mentalist, but have very little experience in the "Allied Arts". So, to get a clearer picture, it'd be really interesting to hear your 'takes' on some elementary terms. I.e. what the following mystery genres constitute of or the difference between them (perhaps typical claimed powers, phenomena, props, themes, form, ...?). I think this could prove interesting discussion. Thus; * Bizarre magick (btw, is this always 'dark' in tone?) * Magick (or does the term always come with "bizarre" first?) * Spritism (ok, my definition, from a performer's practical perspective, would simply be: "Effects supposedly produced by spirits". And "séance" would be the venue for it. Objections?) * Occult (in "How to Produce Miracles" McGill suggests it as a kind of `left-over' term for phenomena that cannot be classed anywhere else) * Strange (is this even a genre or just an adjective?) * Weerd (I'm guessing a certain Docc knows this one best?) * Wizard(ry) (how would a Wizard differ from a Magician. Are there limits to his powers?) * Geek (is there more to it than shocking with gore and surviving?) * …any others missing? Yes, I did say they were elementary terms – please forgive my ignorance. And surely there is great overlap between them, but I'm hoping we can capture the essence of them. Sincere thanks! |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Bizarre is not always dark in tone at all. If you have ever seen a performance by Kardor the Grate, you understand that bizarre can be bizarrely funny, too!
Magick does not always have to be bizarre, either. But it usually is. Generally, though, it is merely a semantic connotation for one who does a simulation of what a REAL sorcerer would do. Maybe. Magic caused by spirits usually happens to me after lots of Tullamore Dew or Jameson's... Occult, ala production of miracles ala McGill. Okay, I would have gone for Miscellaneous on that. PK, mystic healing, sticking things to the body, Georgia Magnet stuff. Works for me. Strange is what describes my life right now... but it can also be an entire approach to the performance. More on this later in the post. My general take on this is that many of the above terms are interchangeable in the eyes of the public. To me, it is character-driven and story driven performance art, as opposed to prop/method driven performance. What the various Tony's and Charles Cameron did when they started the Bizarrist movement, was, in my mind, re-start magic as a path to the gosh-wow experience for the audience. A bizarrist doens't want applause, necessarily. In fact, in many cases, applause would be completely out of place. Having the audience sit there in stunned silence, or to leave muttering among themselves is better. or, as in one instance of a performance of Daemon Dirt for a bunch of cops at a cult crimes seminar, to have them draw their weapons and prepare to fire on the prop - THAT's the response many bizarrists really want! To make the audience buy into the story so powerfully that they actually start to believe that it's real. That they connect with the story and the events on such a visceral level that they completely suspend disbelief and just allowthemselves to experience the moment, completely. Does this help? Or did I miss the point you were going for entirely? Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
Mr Amazing Special user 617 Posts |
You are right on my friend - exactly these kind of reflections I'm hoping to hear!
Kardor the Grate - nope, have not heard of him. Is he believable? Or does it all come across as make believe? In fact, is "Bizarre" always "story telling" magic, or what is the common denominator for these type effects? And you seem to separate between Magick and Bizarre, or indicating that you see Bizarre as a "sub class" of Magick. I'd love to hear some more on the differences. Quote:
Strange is what describes my life right now... Man oh man, I know what you mean. How about; in the process of separating and changing country, just to name a few things... Warmest thanks Lee! I'd love to hear more from both you and you other fellas! Note: Maybe I should explain, or at least mention, the back ground for my question; I fully agree that magic, or any performance art for that matter, mostly is character driven and that the public often see our powers or displays as interchangeable. For 'in-house convenience', however, we classify things. Because I intend to start out in these, to my main field of mentalism, related 'forms' of magic, I'm hoping to get a general grip on the terminology and because I already have some half-clear ideas of what I intend to do I'm hoping to understand what I should search for more specifically. At this early stage I feel it is more important to get started than to be original, thus I'll soon start turning to sources by creators that share similar 'aesthetical' visions. /Matias |
ptbeast Special user Oregon 831 Posts |
What I think is important to understand is that not even the long time practitioners of "Bizarre Magic" can agree on a definition. Some say that
it is storytelling magic. That however, would leave out ceremonial magic and other magic performed as if it were real, such as séances, which have long been a part of the bizarre fold. Likewise, some have tried to define the bizarre as magic that attempts to reach a deeper emotional level and/or seeks a reaction other than applause. I prefer this definition, but it too is far from adequate. Wouldn't it apply, for instance, to any comedy magician? We also can't seem to agree on what types of magic are truly bizarre. Is the so-called (and wrongly so as many would point out) geek magic bizarre? What about wizard magic, which is becoming so popular thanks to Harry Potter? The answer is, of course, not all that critical. It is only a word after all. And that is just bizarre, and didn't really even begin to deal with the other terms you listed. My point is, the such divisions are artificial and only become useful when there is a reason for them. I think that the term Bizarre should be as inclusive as possible, that we may continue to share ideas with all those who share a philosophy of story/character driven performance. Other terms, I suspect, are best defined by the need for division. I'll leave this to the publishers. There are materials out there on Wizard magic, Voodoo magic, Séance magic, Geek magic, etc. But each book or video may define the scope of the material they contain differently, so I am not sure trying to create external definitions for very specialized areas of magic is very useful. Well, enough rambling for me. Just my 2.5 cents worth. Your brother in magic, Dave |
Black Hart Elite user Scottish Highlands 475 Posts |
Bizarre: adjective - strange; unusual (Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English - Second Edition 2000)
Therefore: Bizarre Magic - Strange or unusual magic. That's all there is to it. But does the name really matter? Keith Hart
Black Artefacts, manufacturer and dealer of weird, bizarre and psychic magic: www.blackhart.co.uk
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
I knows it when I sees it.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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Parson Smith Inner circle 1937 Posts |
Black Hart,
Should not all magic be "strange and unusual?" Peace, Parson
Here kitty, kitty,kitty.
+++a posse ad esse+++ |
Black Hart Elite user Scottish Highlands 475 Posts |
Yes, playing with words is very interesting.
Oxford English Dictionary: strange; unusual (separated by a semicolon) Black Hart: strange or unusual (separated by OR) Parson: strange and unusual (separated by AND) Each has its own subtle difference and meaning. However to answer your question - no. Keith Hart
Black Artefacts, manufacturer and dealer of weird, bizarre and psychic magic: www.blackhart.co.uk
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Parson Smith Inner circle 1937 Posts |
Black Hart,
I am not certain, but I think that you were saying that all magic should not be strange and unusual. I might be in agreement, but am not sure exactly what you mean. What I was implying was that all magic is by nature, set apart from "the norm." I think that this could be a very interesting discussion. Would you please expound? Thanks. Peace, Parson
Here kitty, kitty,kitty.
+++a posse ad esse+++ |
Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Is Kardor believable?
OMG! I Hope not! He's far too good for that!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
Mystician Inner circle Wallachia 3485 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-27 20:49, Parson Smith wrote: Hiya Parson, I would take it to mean, strange and unusal relative to "normal" magic. It's all relative. I think that's a pretty good definition, actually, mostly because it's a broad definition, which helps to cover the territory - the many facets of that beautiful cursed diamond we call "bizarre". Even most of the storytelling magic is a little strange or unusual, as the stories themselves are often on the weird side. On the downside, then, by that definition, "geek" magic is bizarre magic. That's not a problem (with me, anyway) so long as people can identify "geek" magic as a subset of bizarre magic, but if they assume that it's completely representative of bizarre, then that's just not cool. IOW: An apple is a piece of fruit, but a piece of fruit is not necessarily an apple ! Or as so many people would incorrectly, " All apples are fruits, but all fruits are not apples". - which implies that NO fruits are apples, which is wrong, wrong, wrong.. it should be, "All apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples", but I'm going off on a grammar tangent here, so I digress .. ;-p Any way you slice it, you have to give it a somewhat vague or broad definition due to the sheer divergence of styles it entails. Storytelling, seance, goth & horror, spiritual, geek, .. etc. That's my take on it, anyway ..
Just hanging out with the rest of my fellow dregs.
http:// www . phrets . com Visit http://www.bizarremagic.net |
Black Hart Elite user Scottish Highlands 475 Posts |
Hi Parson
Quote:
I am not certain, but I think that you were saying that all magic should not be strange and unusual. I might be in agreement, but am not sure exactly what you mean. No, I'm saying that not ALL magic should be strange and unusual. That is very different. The position of the NOT in the sentence is very important and changes the meaning completeley. Keith Hart
Black Artefacts, manufacturer and dealer of weird, bizarre and psychic magic: www.blackhart.co.uk
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Parson Smith Inner circle 1937 Posts |
Hart,
I understand what you are saying. But what I was saying was that all magic SHOULD be strange and unusual. I admit that bizarre could be stranger and "unusualer."(Ain't that a great word?) What I mean is if it is normal, then it would not be magic. Example... 200 hundred years ago, a cellphone would be "magic."But, today it is the norm and no longer magic? Does this even make a lick of sense to anyone but me? It is a fun topic in any event. Peace, Parson
Here kitty, kitty,kitty.
+++a posse ad esse+++ |
Midnight333 Veteran user 353 Posts |
Ah... another one wanders in.. answer the riddles of Gede, avoid the gaze of Mystican, pay homage to Midnight. The Curator holds the tome you seek. The forest is deep, and dark but its treasures are worth your soul. Welcome to the world of bizarre!
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spook Regular user Columbus, OH 150 Posts |
Person doing a magic trick = Magician
Magic trick by person with oddly styled facial hair = Bizarrist, Worker of the Dark Arts. Or so it would seem. |
Robin DeWitt Regular user 187 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-12-03 22:50, Harley Newman wrote: Thanks, Harley. High praise indeed. Merry whatever. Kardor
I am the fakir, you....
<BR>Robin DeWitt |
Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Kardor, there just aren't a lot of performers I could watch every day, and you're one. I hope we can run into each other sometime soon!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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