Brandon, I for one thoroughly enjoy deep theological content. But then, I'm a Lutheran with an MDiv, so that's kind of my thing.

Please don't feel chased away. People are reading but not posting, who apprciate this.

As to whether theology isn't well received in a Gospel magic board, that would be unfortunate. Too much American theology is a mile wide and an inch deep. I would hope you continue to contribute here.

Brandon:

I enjoy theology. As you well know, "orthodoxy precedes orthopraxy." My book was written with that thought in mind. But I agree that it is probably best to stay away from it in a magic forum - especially if we don't want the thread to be locked.

Not that theology's not received well here, but when brought up, the diversity of theological perspective will naturally lead to questioning; and individuals like myself are usually interested to see why someone believes what they do.

So since I'm still interested in your interpretation of the Scripture as posted, I'll PM you as suggested.

Terry

Hey Guys
I don't usually wade in on Deep Theological thought type conversations, but I have enjoyed what I have read here, and I "Really" appreciate how you are all handling what in other areas of the Café, would have turned into an all out "war of words" by now. This is how Christians "Should" be acting. Thank you.

As I said before, there is some Really Good stuff here. I will come back to read it from time to time. Takes me back to my "Bible College" years.

I said all that, to say this, we are possibly missing something here. My question is, How old are these children that we are about to boggle with these deep theological principles?

This is a subject that is very near and dear to me, as one of our past youth ministers was a divinity student, and a Great guy who the kids all loved. I had only one real issue with him, in his teachings. He felt that since these kids had all grown up in Church, that they should be Deep in the word and the deeper Theological meanings it provided.

Not to brag, but my kids were homeschooled and could probably stand up to any adult in our church in Bible knowledge. (All their mothers doing, although I had an active part in our homeschool, I was the principal and ok'd everything my wife actually did most(all) the work.)

The Youth minister Now a Dr o'Div, put out thigs that were so far over their heads that they got discouraged, because they thought he must be right, after all he was their teacher.

Jesus, the Greatest teacher who ever lived, put things simply, in terms that could Easily be understood by everyone.

At some time in their lives everyone Needs to understand the Principles discussed here in this thread. But at present, these kids(depending on their age group) may just need to understand that the Holy Ghost isn't really a Ghost.

For this, I suggest using a zombie with a white cloth, and talking about how this is "just a trick" and that there are no real Ghosts, and then if you feel they can handle more, go into a simplified version of some of the principles explained so eloquently earlier in this thread. There are several things that several people hit on, that, in a simplified version would be excellent, take your pick.

God Bless
Steve

Children need visual. The Holy Spirit (and, for that matter, the Full Mystery of God) cannot be put into any visual that will be 100% accurate. We can never tell the full story or explain God. So, don't worry about limiting the vastness of God into a 5 minute illusion. Just do the best job with the image you have at hand. Everyone will eventually understand that there is a lot more there than our human minds can fathom.

One image to consider. The words that both the Greeks (pneuma) and Hebrews (ruah) used for Spirit more accurately translate into 'breath.' What a wonderful image that the Holy Spirit is God's Breath. Check out Gen 2:7 - the Second story of Creation where God forms the man and "breathes into his nostrils the breath of life literally meaning that God's Spirit dwells in us, gives us life and leads us.

In my work with children I have found that they adore this image of the Holy Spirit. I think its a good direction fo us to pursue in developing a trick or two to help us explain and lead others to live the mystery.

God bless all,
Vinny

I've used a ghost glass with just that theme of spirit as wind, breath.

Thanks Vinny!

Now that's a cool idea. Thank you!

Vinny

Vinny:
Thanks for your words, I found them encouraging.
Arthur

Thank you, Arthur. God Bless and continued success -- especially with your Stress Awareness presentations. Lord knows we can all use less stress!
Vinny

Vinny, Thanks.
The Lord does know we need less stress! I'm glad he carries our burdens.
Arthur

Wow, the ghost glass is a great idea!

Since we are talking about the Holy Spirit why not use the spirit slates (a dealer item). Now before anyone starts cautioning me about a possible occult message please hear me out. The Holy Spirit testifies of the Deity of Christ. Remember that Jesus told Peter that he could not have known that Jesus is the Messiah except that the Holy Spirit has revealed it to him. Also the Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Anyway, to the trick. Use two spirit slates of a size large enough for whatever audience you may have. There is a lot of latitude for different messages here but ideally you may show them blank and face them together using rubber bands, silks (which could be used in another effect), or anything appropriate to your message. You can place a piece of chalk between them if you like. You may then speak about whatever subject you would like to tie in here but I think I would talk about the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to us and bringing our once dead spirits to life by revealing to us the Light Of The World, "Jesus". Simple, and to a lay audience amazing. For effect you could draw a heart and later reveal the name "Jesus" written inside it.