Okay, I'm certain that this type of post must have been made on this forum before. Please forgive me if it's a bit redundant for those old timers here.

The problem I'm having is that my classic palm is terribly deficient. I've watched guys like Michael Ammar and David Roth palm coins and they make it look far too easy! I've tried several different positions in my palm (way down near the "heal" of my palm, up between the thumb and index finger, smack dab in the middle of the palm, etc.) and nothing seems to look natural. More often than not, I drop the coin when I'm trying to show my hand naturally open (looking at the back of the hand, obviously from the audience p.o.v.). As long as I keep my hand somewhat curled in, I have no real trouble. The hard part is trying to show the hand empty (again from the back) and somewhat open.

Actually, I've got a further handicap in that my thumbs (both!) are double jointed at two places -- the first knuckle and the second. So, this makes it even harder for me to hold a coin where the "experts" say it should go (see attached photo of my right hand).

Anybody have any hard and fast rules for a classic palm that might be helpful?!? Where should the coin be placed? What works (and doesn't) for you? Are there specific exercises that are helpful in developing the muscle (or fat!) in the correct area of the palm (keep in clean!) BTW, after reviewing the attached photo, note that surgery is not an option I'd like to consider!

Any and all suggestions are welcome, and THANKS!

Click here to view attached image.

I'm not sure what the various types of coinage are down there in Australia, but have you tried various coin sizes and thicknesses? I have smaller hands, and although many illusions are taught using the American 50 cent coin, I find that it's a little too large for my hands to comfortably palm.

What I ended up doing was perusing a local coin shop and found many types of foreign coins that work much better for me. And since they were all located in a 'junk' bin, I got them for a very low price. I like working with the English 1/2 Penny coin. It's about the size of an American 25 cent coin, but it is thinner and about 1/2 the weight. I can palm these very easily.

I too have double jointed thumb joints. The best way to get the classic palm down is to practice with heavy coins consistently. Also, EVERYONE (to some degree or another) will have some slight bending appearance along the side of the hand leading to the pinky finger. At first, this will be rather pronounced, but as your hand muscles become stronger, it will appear less so. Most specs will never pick up on it unless it appears blatantly obvious.

Hi Joedy,

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, my hands are actually pretty darn big. I find that palming an Aussie 50 cent piece is pretty easy because it's larger and thicker than a US half. It also has the advantage of being a 12 sided coin (is that a hexagon?). So it's easy to have it palmed in my rather large size mitts with a couple of the "points" of the hexagon(?) digging into various points on my palm(s).

Trouble I've got is that all the gaffs I can get down here are for foreign (to us) currency. The Aussie government seriously frowns on gimmicked Aussie currency. So, if I want an expanded shell, folding, or other specialty gaff, I've got to work with US or other currency which puts me right back to palming US half sized coins again.

I really appreciate your time. If you have any further suggestions, I'm all ears (or palms as the case may be!). Cheers!

" I drop the coin when I'm trying to show my hand naturally open "

Maybe the problem is that you're trying to "show" your hand "naturally open." If your hand was really natural, there would be nothing to show and nothing to prove. If you observe how your hand is when it is genuinely natural, you will see that it is somewhat curled in. You say that you have no problem palming a coin with your hand somewhat curled in. That's that then. If you want to prove your hand empty, you will have to show the front. No matter how much you can open your hand and look at it from the back, if your audience suspects there is something in your hand, you will have to show the front of your hand. If your audience doesn't suspect anything (the way it should be) then it doesn't matter how your hand looks. In either case, being able to open your hand completely while palming a coin is useless.

If you are comfortable with a coin in your hand, and can carry out most normal day to day actions with a coin palmed, then I would spend more time thinking about how to create a situation where the hand seems unimportant to the spectators, than on perfecting an "open hand palm."

Have you tried US silver dollars?

All I can really recommend beyond that is to practice a lot (every waking moment) and do some hand exercises.

Sneakers,

For my advice on the Classic Palm with pictures galore, head to the "foundations" section of my website http://www.coinvanish.com.

There you will find my essay on the Classic Palm.

Sneakers,

First, make sure you have the right props. For larger hands, the U.S. Dollar might be a better fit. And there's another thing to think about here: I have fairly large hands, and I find that a dollar sized coin is the only coin that makes an impression when I produce it. When your hands are bigger, it just seems a given that you might be able to hide a teeny-weeny half dollar. So using the larger coins might be not only easier, but more effective.

Try a dollar with a good, sharp, milled edge. You'll probably want to switch to worn pure silver coins later, but their edges are generally too smooth to start out with.

If your hands are generally moist, a smooth edge is not a problem. Unless they're really moist. If your hands are very dry, the milled edge is crucial. Or a hand cream.

I know how tough your government is regarding gimmicked coins. Barry Govan has some really funny stories, that I'm sure are funny only in retrospect.

Still, Todd Lassen should be able to help you with any custom gaffs you might need. It will depend somewhat on the composition of the coins. Getting them into the country is your problem.

So, assuming you've got the right coins and the condition of your hands is appropriate, now we can look at technique.

Dan's got some good advice at his site. Also, Reed McClintock has been teaching the classic palm in a new way at his lectures and I hear it has been very succcessful. He'll be putting the technique out in DVD form soon, but until then, you've got to catch him at a convention or a lecture.

He will be at the Café convention in March...

Hi Guys,

Excellent suggestions all. Thanks for that! More suggestions are welcome -- maybe this kind of basic question is not only helpful for me but some of our other Café attendees as well. Thanks!

Kind regards.

Hi Sneakers,

When I started palming, I used a larger coin than an Australian twenty cent piece (it was a 1966 Australian round fifty cent piece which looks similar from a distance and costs about $3.00 Australian in a coin shop).

David Stone, on his website, has some advice on palming and what he basically says is that classic palming depends on a well developed hypothenar (the muscle on the palm below your pinkie). He suggests several ways of building up that muscle by working out the pinkie (I'm not joking, honest) and it probably works.

If I compare my right hand (which I palm with a lot and can classic palm several coins and look okay) and my left hand (which only does simple palms and has to crimp to classic palm even one) the hypothenar is much more developed, but it took me six months when I first started to get that development - so my advice is use a larger coin and accept the fact that you have to 'body build' your hand.

It's hard to classic palm according to most of the people I've spoken to, but the technique is well worth acquiring. Best of Luck.

Hey Whiterabbit (Cool name...follow the white rabbit, Neo!),

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement. I suppose that I could admit to being just a tad bit impatient with this endeavour. As the owner/manager of a magic shop I find that I've now got all the neat toys in the world to play with (almost...!) and I also find that my customers expect that I should know heaps of techniques and (of course) all the latest and greatest gadgets. So, when I find that there's a topic that interests me personally, I think that I should be able to acquire the skill quickly and without "too much" practice (silly me!). It's kinda funny because I started working more coins (and coin gaffs) precisely because they are harder to do well than cards -- at least for me anyway. Others may somewhat or strongly disagree!

So, practice, practice, and more good practice for me!

BTW folks, if you have not yet been to see Dan Watkins' site at http://www.coinvanish.com (as noted above) please do yourself a favour and go there for a while. Study up and pass his little test to get into the "Foundations" link. Great tips and hints for a variety of coin sleights can be found there (thanks Dan!).

Cheers!

Sneakers,

Yes, good foundation and practice. My classic palm was terrible until 3-4 months ago. I was giving up. I have to thank this forum, Dan's web site and some videos. My classic palm now is not perfect but I'm able to use the PC mouse, write with a pen, pick up other objects, etc.

Luca

My classic palm was horrible. I learned it 15 years ago incorrectly and it's been a pain trying to relearn it. Dan's website has been a huge help. Thank you.

I used to palm the coin up and down (heel to fingers) as opposed to side to side. Still isn't great, but the muscles are getting stronger.