I need honest feedback from anyone reading this forum, Gospel magician or otherwise.

I do a mostly Gospel show, for church audiences. Banquet entertainment settings. My show has expanded in this last year, and gotten more magical thanks to the Café. I am including some effects that don't have a specifically Gospel patter, but the overall show is still presented as a Gospel magic experience.

I have always opened shows with a goldfish production. It's strong magic, and the patter is about how when we create, we work with raw materials. But God creates from nothing. Ink to goldfish is great for this. (In the right crowd, I can even teach a little latin, creatio ex nihilo....)

I have thought about expanding the opening production to a longer routine, involving steps in creation. Light, earth, water, fish, animals, birds. As of right now, the livestock situation is limited to fish, but I can dream.

For the time being though, as I expand it, I would see this done with a musical track with narration from Genesis 1. The ultimate goal is of course to have an assistant, who appears when we get to the making of humankind in God's image.

Now, aside from the technical aspects I have to work on, is this even a good idea? A lot of good discussion has been had on this forum about doing effects where we "mimmick" God's powers, and it can be trite or downright insulting. I would hope this would not be the case, but what I see from my eyes is not what others see.

So, the question is, if you were watching a show, and you knew it would be religiously based, would you find such a presentation moving or cheesy? I know a lot depends on the presenter of course, but in general, what do you think you would think of this?

Funny you should ask this. I saw a Gospel magician do something similar a few years back. Didn't do a whole series of effects for creation, only the appearance of his assistant. I think it went over OK. I certainly didn't see the presentation as, "Hey look. I can do the same 'tricks' God did!" Don't know if "moving" is exactly the right word (the method he used wasn't all that great, if I remember correctly), but I think under the right circumstances, it could be great.

(Of course, you're asking Gospel magicians. You might get a different opinion if you asked someone at your church. Maybe not. Don't know.)

I try to look at my purpose first: I want to present the Good News that Jesus saves. I see creation effects telling a Bible Story which is good, but, speaking only for myself, relating it to Christ might require some explaining--John 1:1-5 maybe. Your goals may be different as well as your point of view. It is just MHO. God bless.

I think something like this is a good idea, especially with your intent to include music. I belive how 'moving' this is will be GREATLY affected by the choice of music that you use. A routine like this could be quite moving if performed well and if the background music track is particularly fitting. Good luck with it!

The only problem I have with it is the length for an opening production. Goldfish.. quick, gets the point, and then you can talk. But is this the first effect, and how long will it go?

Perhaps if it ends up taking more of the show, it is an ending or a middle portion instead.

But as for moving, I think it has great great potential. I think the Mystery School participatants would be a great group to run some of this by, or perhaps a Master Class. Taking this there and expanding it and working with it.

This really has the potential of becoming something great and with meaning. Something about it touches a deeper level than most Gospel Magic I know. In the book about the Mystery School, there is a routine about creation using bubbles, and grabbing one out of the air. The script that goes along with this is nice and flushed out. And well done.

My point... not cheesy at all.

Good Luck.

RevJohn

I had thought of doing something similar to this some time ago, but one of those things I never got around to doing.
It's a great idea, but as RickyD pointed out, others outside the world of gospel magic may not be so inclined to accept.
Sadly, as has been discussed in other threads here, some cannot divorce the word 'magic' from evil and misunderstand the content of our ministry.
Using illusions to illustrate the creation is far removed from claiming the powers to do so.
Go for it!
Done well, it could have a profound effect and open the doors wide for the Holy Spirit to minister.

Andrew

Just stumbled on to this forum and this thread. I hadn't noticed the Gospel Magic section before. This is great!

I think a Genesis routine is an excellent idea. IMO. I can't recommend highly enough the Reasons to Believe website if you want the greatest wealth of material out there for creating a Genesis routine. If you e-mail them, I am sure they would even help you develop it.

Keeping the faith, Benjamin

Why not feed 5000 people with the goldfish. that'll get their interest.

ML

Rev:

You ask a good question:



As you and other said, the success will depend on the presentation and the audience. It is something that has concerned me; I am still developing my "wings" in this regard. So I hope you will share your experiences with us as you try different things.

For myself, so far at least, I try to do effects that help illustrate a principle or concept,( but I don't know how successful I am with that) and I've avoided effects that seem to duplicate a miracle, for reasons already given.

John

I think magic could be an excellent tool for evangelism, especially with a "Genesis" theme. I think a "Genesis" theme could open doors with non-believers and serve as a platform for expanding the knowledge of believers on how the Bible and the record of nature are in perfect harmony; God's specific and general revelations respectively.

Let's just take the ink to goldfish as a starter. Ask people if they knew that fish and humans are in the same animal phylum. This shows that a phyla is a pretty big a group of living organisms. Ask if they know when most of the phyla on the Earth were created. You could ask how long it took. If you did the math, you could use an analogy with the time it takes to produce the goldfish with the average human life span. (You see, 50-80% of all the animal phyla ever to exist on the Earth were created within a 2-5 million year window between 570-540 million years ago, which if compared to the age of the Earth, represented as a football field, would fall inside a hash mark somewhere near the 30 yard line). That is an explosion! There is no natural explanation and it shows the creative power of God.

You put the magic in there wherever it suits your style best. Well, this is what I think would work and I am just talking about ink to goldfish. The possibilities are endless. Here is the info I based this example on:

"Recent work undermines the attempts of evolutionary biologists to avoid the consequences of one of the most powerful pieces of evidence for a Creator$B!G(Bs direct involvement in life$B!G(Bs history. Approximately 540 million years ago, the fossil record shows a dramatic event. Over the course of only 2 to 5 million years, somewhere between 50% and 80% of all animal phyla ever to exist on Earth appeared explosively. The Cambrian explosion, also known as "Biology$B!G(Bs Big Bang" defies a naturalistic evolutionary explanation. Some evolutionary biologists have argued that the Ediacaran fauna, a highly enigmatic collection of fossils that date between 570 and 540 million years ago, represent evolutionary precursors to the animals that appear in the Cambrian explosion. Analysis of the new Ediacaran fossils from China makes this view less probable. A team of Chinese paleontologists demonstrated that these newly discovered fossils are vendobionts, a group of complex organisms that are neither animals nor plants. As such they have no evolutionary connection to the Cambrian fauna. While the Cambrian explosion remains a puzzle for evolutionary models, this remarkable event fully squares with RTB$B!G(Bs biblical creation model." From http://www.reasons.org/resources/tnrtb/200509.shtml

Just one example and I pray for your success.

Benjamin

Greets... adding to this thread:

I do religious educational shows which include puppetry, storytelling, and magic. Everything that I do is to make the educational part fun (make the show more interesting so kids will remember it).

It works-- I went to do a show at a place I hadn't been to for a year, and some kids remembered the show I did year before and were asking me about things in the show...

Nobody ever seems to think that I am "mimmicking" God. Most kids have enough exposure to magic and entertainment that they see this as a show, not something real.

I have thought about putting together a signs & wonders type show (like the Passover / Exodus plagues), and have wondered if some people would be bothered that I could simulate "miracles", but given the setting (a show in an auditaurium or room), I don't think I'd have a problem with it, especially if I explained to the kids that what I was doing wasn't exactly what God did (!)-- I'm not gonna make real frogs or vermin jump out all over everyone!

Joe