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rtgreen Inner circle Portland, Oregon 1322 Posts |
Hi everyone,
I would like to hear opinions on whether or not a magician should advertise set rates or not. For example, which do you think would bring in more business? (i.e. qualified leads.) Harvey and McBongo - Spend an hour unlike any other with magic's original Odd Couple. Watch in amazement as world-class magician, Harvey Jones and his unruly chimpanzee companion, Scratchy McBongo perform the great illusions of magic. Dates are filling up fast, so call today! or Harvey and McBongo - Spend an hour unlike any other with magic's original Odd Couple. Watch in amazement as world-class magician, Harvey Jones and his unruly chimpanzee companion, Scratchy McBongo perform the great illusions of magic. ONLY $1,499.99! Dates are filling up fast, so call today! Thanks, Richard PS: Harvey and McBongo would be a registered trademark of Scratchy McBongo Enterprises if only Scratchy would spend less time TIVOing reruns of Bay Watch and actually take the time to register the name. |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
They both have pros and cons. Many discussed at the Café before.
This is how I see it. Ad number one creates interest and people will call because they want you, or they may call because they may want you depending on price. But this will allow you to talk to them to defend/qualify your price and turn some into qualified leads. You can also offer other packages/services if you have them. But at the same time you can be wasting your breath on useless leads when you could have been watching Babewatch. And if you are so busy, why are you answering the phone and not at a gig? The second will eliminate some of the ones who want a magician for $50.00. Which means less being bothered by useless leads. But you may not get to qualify some potential leads that don't understand the pricing. But if you happen to be really reasonably priced, posting the price can put you ahead of the competition (sometimes). I personally use number two style on my website only, because I use my website as a live marketing tool when I'm am talking to clients/leads. |
rtgreen Inner circle Portland, Oregon 1322 Posts |
Thanks Bill,
That's the exact argument going on in my head about this. You make a good point about missing leads that can be shown the value of a higher priced show. Another idea I had was to not list a specific price, but to use some sort of symbolic device - something like Disney does with their restaraunt guides at the parks. Each restaurant description is followed by a number of dollar signs indicating their pricing. A burger stand would have $ whereas the French restaurant in Epcot has $$$$. However, since most of my shows would be priced pretty closely, I don't know if this would make sense. Thanks, Richard |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
I know exactly what you mean. This is why I use both methods. I list prices on my website, but most clients only go to my website after they have talked to me or as they are talking to me.
I don't list pricing in my hard copy advertising. If I list a price it might be more like a discount (save 10 percent) or for a special ($50.00 telegrams for Valentine's... restrictions apply). One way to advertise and suggest the price is to state what this is good for i.e. for large festivals and theatres and groups of over 500. Really acknowledge your target market. This way you will less likely get the lowballers. Also possibly state some performing conditions without really stating that they are conditions... Harvey and McBongo - Spend an hour unlike any other with magic's original Odd Couple. Watch in amazement as world-class magician, Harvey Jones and his unruly chimpanzee companion, Scratchy McBongo perform the great illusions of magic on stage. "Harvey and Scratchy McBongo were a thrill to have and greatly added to our mainstage entertainment series." The Washington Art Festival Dates are filling up fast, so call today to make your festival grandstand entertainment like no other. Or something like that. It can really set your standard a lot better |
BalukMagic Veteran user Toronto, Canada 319 Posts |
Wait, you have a Chimp?
Really? If so, cool... |
todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
I don't list prices. I prefer to negotiate that on the phone (or by email). More flexibility. Now, if I was selling magicians by the pound, that would be different.
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
The only problem with negotiation is that if you get two different customers talking to each other, then you will almost have to give them both the same price when you did that other guy's event at a bit of a discount. Or even worse, guy number two can find out after he already booked that guy number one got you for cheaper. Listing prices can reduce this type of problem, or you can just say when people call that prices are non negotiable in some way.
I have seen the above situations come up many times from my friends who try to negotiate each and every event. Some people may view price listing as a sign of professionalism. You have a product and this is what it sells for. Otherwise some people may view you as a non-professional who is not sure what he charges and can therefore be brought down to what they think is a fair price. |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Sure, but let's not forget that "negotiation" is a process of give-and-take. If Customer A paid the full $500 (or whatever), but Customer B can only afford $400, then you can do a shorter show for Customer B. If they talk among themselves, they're liable to find out you went lower for a shorter show.
A lot of times you can use the "take-away" close or a variation. When they mention the lower price, offer to take away "this one routine" that's just long enough to make up the difference in price. Amazing how taking something away will often make the guy remember he does have the money. The "take-away" close is a classic: you can learn about it in any number of good books on selling. I'd be curiuous as to how bands, DJ's, and similar services advertise their prices.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Well I am a DJ and in a band and my prices are set in stone. You get a discount for multiple bookings. There is an hourly rate, but you are better getting the package. I know some DJ companies offer extras in the form of adding lighting and FX. But upon talking with customers/clients I have found these add-ons can seem like one is being ripped off. Kind of like those computer companies who offer a deal and try to get the add-ons and then you end up paying twice as much. Leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth. I include lighting in my wedding and other similar packages. If you don't want lights, that's fine, the price is still the same as lighting is a free add-on. I do have extras but they are not needed for a really successful party.
With my magic/juggling portion of the business, I have different packages available so there really is no negotiating. You view your budget and pick the package that best suits that. And without me being there you can see what you are missing out on. And I agree that negotiation is important. That is why I do the best of both worlds. Even with listed pricing there is always room for negotiation. I have done shorter shows for less. The listing helps see what they are missing. People remember things more by seeing than by hearing. Actually, 50% of my festival/fair gigs are negotiated because of multiple bookings/performances with either multiple performances or multiple performers. You may notice too that I am on both sides of the fence in this issue. A lot of it really depends on the market I am targeting for each service. Birthday parties are set in stone. I never negotiate on them. DJing is set in stone. And to note I am the top DJ company in my area. DJing almost every weekend and I am the only company to have more than one DJ. I have 3. Everything I am doing is working for me, but I am always learning and changing things also. Any advice by anyone is only as good as what works for them. It may not work for others, depending on markets and such. One should take as much info from all sides and apply what will and may work. Some trial and error is needed. |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Thanks for filling us in on your DJ work. We can learn a tremendous amount by seeing how fields outside of magic address the same issues we have.
Just one more note. "Negotiation" is not the same as "bargaining," even though some customers would have you think they are. Negotiation is a give-and-take: I'll give you this if you give me that. It's a way of life in many areas of business. Bargaining is trying to get the lowest price without giving up anything. Some people will automatically ask for a discount no matter what price you quote. In some cultures, it has been a way of life for thousands of years, and it's almost expected that a vendor will drop his price after some haggling. A few years ago, I spent five weeks in Dubai on a huge theming project. It was amazing. Even in department stores, you were supposed to bargain. They guy would say, "I'll give you the best price" right away, and (according to all the travel books) you were supposed to bargain him down to about ten percent less than that. Fifteen tops. Any more would be an affront. So I tried it. One day I was buying some gold for Donna, and the guy gave me his "best price." We haggled back and forth a bit, but he was still above the ten percent. So, following the approved drill, I grabbed a slip of paper and wrote down what I wanted to pay; this way, no one else would hear it and he wouldn't lose face. So he put on his best American-car-salesman face and told me he couldn't do it himself and had to check with his manager. I said okay and he headed off to the back room. He came back a few minutes later. I figured he had to build up the suspense and was either having a coffee, reading the sports page, or going to the men's room. But he said his manager approved it, and we had a deal. That wasn't negotiation. That was bargaining. The funny thing was that, while he was in the back, I was looking around the cases again and found another piece, a much smaller one, that I also wanted. The price was a lot lower, and I really didn't feel like going through the whole exercise again for a few bucks. So I leaned in slightly, smiled, and told him I would just pay for the thing. He thanked me, but the look on his face was priceless, and I didn't have to be a Dunninger or an Annemmann to read his mind: "I don't understand Americans."
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Yeh, I sometimes mistakenly mix up the two (negotiation and bargaining).
I dislike bargaining (both trying to do it and having people do it to me). I personally find it "cheapens" everything like character, not just the price. Negotiation is fine because both end in a win-win situation. Nothing is lost. |
Frank Simpson Special user SW Montana 883 Posts |
With my vocal quartet we do not post specific pricing in our advertising. On a few pieces we may have something like pricing from $XXX.
This way we can weed out the "cheapies" but still leave plenty of room to accommodate an organization's budget. The theme of our show is "a journey through romance", so we offer 4 show packages: The Day Trip, The Over-nighter, The Weekend Getaway, and the Luxury Cruise". This can be anything from an a capella 15 minute spot in the corner of a room up to our 2 act show with scenery, lights, etc. By defining a range of 4 show packages we can narrow a client's field of interest by implying the broad aspects of the shows available. Once a call is made we then qualify the lead to see which show is most appropriate for their needs and/or budget. We've only ever lost one gig becasue of price. |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I made a list of the pros and cons a few years ago....
PROS - Your price can become a selling point - Customers can call to book instead of calling to ask about prices. - Customers can be 100% sold by your website/flyer etc. - Customers who don't like asking how much things cost (and they do exist) will call you. CONS - You can not negotiate easily. - If a show requires a surcharge (travel, original material etc.) the customer will find themselves paying more then they originally thought. - If you have multiple packages on offer with multiple prices, customers can become confused. - You often won't get a chance to 'sell' customers over the phone who ring for the price and offer them specific benefits that wouldn't be on your marketing material (e.g. "Having twins you say? Why, for twins I can do you a special rate where they both get a gift for the cost of one".) |
briansmagic Special user USA 507 Posts |
I don't think the reason of not listing your fees would be so you can negotiate. I think it is important for professionals to maintain fee integrity. You must charge every client the same price for the same product. If the show that would fit their situation and venue best costs $1000, but they only have $800, do not allow them to percieve you as dickering on your price. This is not fair to anyone prior to them who has paid $1000. Tell them that you can still do something for $800, even though you normally charge $1000. It will be a slightly different show for $800, but still work well for their purposes. Then in their minds, they are not buying the $1000 show b/c they can't afford it; instead you are putting together something special for $800. Maybe to you it is the difference of leaving out one routine. They don't need to know the logistics of it, all they know is that they are still getting a fantastic show, just not the same show that others pay $1000 for.
Does this make sense?? |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Brian - the problem is that most clients I have get a different product. An hour of roving for a wedding of 50 is different from an hour of roving at a cocktail party for 500.
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
As the former owner of a personal management and booking agency for professional entertainers, to me the primary actual use of posted pricing is to inform competition, not talent buyers. Thus, I just don't do it nor do I recommend it. After forty-seven years in the professional entertainment industry, I still doubt it has ever costs me a desirable gig. I'm sure it has been a major inconvience to my competition. Sorry!
Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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