If the Café isn't going to allow speculation posts in this section, where can they be posted? I don't want to jump the gun and assume the people regulating this site are so precious as to feel there's no place for that here. But I'm starting to believe that's the case.

Listen, whether we admit it or not, a big draw to this site is entertainment. And it's entertaining to read all the ridiculous posts as well as the intelligent posts about effects that are soon to be released. The proof is in the 14+ pages of posts leading up to most highly anticipated releases.

So my advice, and clearly many others advice to the Café: Have a forum for speculation on not yet released material. If you don't care for such banter, don't go digging into the forum. Fair?

I respectively disagree, I got real tired of going thru pages of nonsense, guessing, fishing, arguing, and ridiculous remarks on effects that weren't released or never even seen yet. The Trick review section should be just that, a Review of an effect one has purchased and a honest review. I found that not only was it annoying and ridiculous but very unfair to the originators of the effect.

I see no benefit at all for one to speculate on something they either never seen first hand or have in possession. If I want to read speculation, guessing, rumors, etc I can read one of them dumb tabloids my wife sometimes purchases.

I'm thankful to the moderators for finally addressing this. I find the removal of such posts to be fair to all, especially the originators of effects. If it's junk I'm quite sure we will know about that quickly. Since this post has no reason to be in the trick review area I hope this disappears as well.


RandyM

Its easy to post about pre-releases. Just make sure the creator of the effect is a sponser of the Café or your a sponser.

Money makes the world go round.

I don't care for tabloid papers either. But I wouldn't call for them to be banned. It would violate freedom of the press. It might also upset your wife. However if these tabloid articles found their way into the NY Times, that would be wrong. So that's why I'm suggesting a separate forum for people to discuss not-yet-released effects.

You say you respectfully disagree with me but then go on to talk about how you hate digging through speculative posts and how the trick review section should be just that. The separate forum I'm suggesting would eliminate that problem of having to dig through those speculative posts. Right?

A lot of people clearly enjoy not only speculating about effects but also asking intelligent questions about release dates, the inventor, and more. Again, that's why it should have it's own forum. Like the tabloids, if it's not your thing, don't read it.

Hey Platt...

LET THERE BE MAGIC (seperate Café' forum)

isn't this where things like this shound be? concerning 'Intact' that is...

johnny

I said this lately and I will again. I think it is time to put another section for pre-releases.

Call it the "Hype Section".

....And most of the Café space will be taken up with threads that are 100 pages long

Allthough Im in favour of the pre-releas section, I somewhat agree with RandyM. I think members could use that section for their own benefit without giving anything to Café.

They'll be peddling their latest "new" miracles.

I think it is a good idea.
The persons who want to read 100 pages of pre release ad or speculations will go there and the persons who want to read a real review will go here...

Um...go to the "Let There Be Magic" section of the Café, there we shall be able to discuss things of this nature.

But no hyping puhlease!

johnny

I find it an interesting debate, when the pre speculation turns into personal attacks on individuals then there is no place for it on the forum BUT, the forum is the users, if I recal not to long ago the big move to a better server was seeking out donations to help pick up the cost. Not knowing how much money was actually raised the request itself implied it is the users forum which is quite obviously becoming not the case. Deleted posts, locked or vanishing posts does not imply any freedoms or liberties on the Café forum. I would like to think some repercution should happen to creators who mislead or deal in junk and try to peddle it on the magic Café should face an issue similar or worse. It strikes me that behaviour like that goes unoticed by the Café when strong opinions from members not selling items or profitting face something a lot different than some poor vendors that choose to be dishonest are seemingly rewarded for that but facing nothing. Just my opinion but it is becoming somewhat comical to a lot of people that once used this for open minded discussions about magic. The good dealers and creators will always have my support and we are lucky enough to have them on sometimes but remember one thing, the bad ones are making a ton of money as well and the disappointment level or misled levels seem to be on the increase rather than the oposite. Work with honest people and this might not happen so much. The advertisers pay the bills but without members no one will bother to advertise.

Jeff

The "Let There Be Magic" forum's stated intent is for "the general discussion of magic publishing" and should probably remain so.

I would like to see a dedicated forum to "pre-release" or "coming soon" items. A lot of the time a post in the official review section will begin with... "Has anybody seen this...? Does anybody have a review for....? etc. "

Several posts then ensue like "Wow...this sounds like a winner!...anybody have it yet?" etc.

Eventually a review appears after several pages of breathless antiicipation.

It would be great to have a review section that features opinions by owners of the effects ONLY. If you want to post questions or speculate on an effect you do not own... or find out about some anticipated release.... then that should be allowed but in a dedicated section.

So what about about that new Daniel Garcia wallet.....?

Jeff ,

All is noted and you have a fair point. but as many have said before, the Café is not a democracy, so the freedoms or liberties sometimes go out of the window.

They have rules and regulations that has to be followed. I think its not too much to ask for a wondeful service they provide.

Brilliant thinking oombob!

I have know idea what the Garcia Wallet's like, may hafta check it out!

johnny

Good gosh, yes.

Conjecture about tricks people haven't even seen reaches absurd limits.

Besides being completely disinterested in this guessing game, I have very busy days and truly appreciate being able to cut to the chase, to get the facts about products people actually own. It's those educated opinions which I value.

Seems like a seperate "Coming Soon" section would easily accommodate those who enjoy conjecture, while the existing sections could be for "reviews only".

Wouldn't that make everybody happy? Seems like the server space would be the same in the end.

Steve H

I have posted a request in "I want to see the manager" section asking Steve to consider a new "Hype" section... Hype Hype Hooray or Premature Speculation?

There's enough discussion between people who have actually bought something without pointless debate between people who haven't. There's also the people who keep asking questions in a hope of finding out the method.

I think there is definitely a call for pre-release hype and promotion. After all, when I first brought out The Silent Tretament, I offered Café members a discount!

Let's see what Steve reckons.

This has already been talked about and Brooks said he is going to consider it...

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......40&9

Isn't the "What's Cookin?" section where new items to be released are announced? Confine it to an accurate and succinct description of the effect, without all the hype ("sold out immediately at the Big Name Magicians Get Together....," "..as used by Blackstone, Henning, Vernon, Malini, and endorsed by Houdini in his last will and testament..""...the best trick you'll buy this year or any year..." "totally new concept never before even remotely thought of or considered by any human or non-human being...", ad nauseum...) and you've probably got a more valuable category. Of course, it will be hard to police, since most creators can't resist the urge to hype something more than it usually deserves.

If there was a section dedicated to speculation posts, this would conveniently allow me to NEVER go to such threads. On the other hand, review threads only by people who own and/or who have tried the item being reviewed. HMMM. What a concept.

Mike

P.S. And, as a way to keep such speculative posts down, I would suggest that Steve and staff not allow any such posts to count against a contributor's total. (Just as the Buy-Sell-Trade posts do not count against one's total posts). I've always suspected that a lot a these "review" posts are done as a cheap and easy way to build a poster's total number of posts.

Yes... but limited to Café sponsors only.