I guess it depends on what each person wants their magic to be like, then.

Actually The one I think I am changing my mind. I think that perhaps this would would turn out to be a good effect. However the routine would have to be changed to suit the effect. Weapon I think that your effects "flooring" ability would be greatly improved if you changed the patter to be a whole 'mind power' trick i.e. play up that you can use your great mind power to divine the what the spectators card, then if you concentrate hard enough on the card and use your great psysic abilities you can actually cause the card they are holding to magically transform into their card. In this way I think it could be a great effect but the correct patter is essential to ensure that the two different parts of the tricks smooth over a little better. Good work thinking of the effect though weapon.

Moyle

Moyle good idea as well.. every effect ever made can altered and change that what we call variation and variations is what keeps magic fresh and brand new

I think the biggest issue with the trick is that it feels like its been thrown together without much thought.

Two pieces that don't fit well with each other.

This is what vernon was talking about regarding dingle. To paraphrase
"hed do a great cutting to the aces and then ask, know how I did that? and show a coin under the cards... what the hell does that mean?"*

Why does the card change, other then because we can?

Figure that out

*Vernon said something about dingels kickers. Im not sure the exact example.

Here is my 2 cents...i use marlo's key card replacement and then follow up with the wispering queen using the selected card. in marlo's replacement the spec cuts to the selection completes the cut in hand and cuts his half into the remaining half...u don't touch the deck untill you locate the card.

dug

Hey Nord wassup, I definitly understand what your saying..but the laymen love it..i think the idea is on the right path I think we need to fine tune it a little and make it more logical without straying from the orginal effect

Hey buddy,

Im not saying it doesn't get good reactions. Im saying it could get BETTER reactions.

I also think its a good routine...

;)

Just gonna chime in with this discussion..
Great effect, if it suits you, and you are happy with it then sure stick with it! Don't change things because others don't like it. Remember, that in art there is no hardfast ground rules.

Now that goes with knowing that someone like you, Weapon, would not just discard something based on what others may think.

Now as for the discussion, mentalism, magic, they all fall under the same branch. It all depends on how you present the whole thing.. so you can't argue that its as different as someone kissing you and someone sleepin with you. At least from my point of view. To me (for sake of keepin this clean) difference of getting a hug from behind or front (I'm sure thousands of other comparisons could be made.)

I'm sure that as weapon does this over and over, the trick will develop and take a life of its own. Climax will be adjusted, method will be adjusted. Isn't this how all tricks are "created"?.

As for mentalism should stand on its own. this is only a trick and I don't think weapon wants to come acorss as a pure mentalist... so I think its good to have the card change, something visual in there as wel. If he is working as a magician. Then shouldn't the climax be a magical moment? I'm no saying that mentalism can't be magical. I'm saying that if you are doing a pure mentalist show, this might take away from it but from a normal magic stand point of view.. I don see how it would harm it.
Mentalism is good on its own, but nowadays audience is up for something... more visual and in-their-hands. At least the "norms" do

Btw all this is just my opinion. So no getting fired up cause I'm sure that it differs by people.

Hey mc magi

I completely agree with you I wasn't suggesting that card change should be taken out. All I was saying was rather than just letting the card change by 'magic' he should patter it up as his mind changing the card. This was the magical card change you see it remains but the routine runs more seemlessly from the mentalism to the magic which to be quite honest I think your right to a layman is one and the same. But you are right these adjustments are how tricks are created that was just my creative spin on the routine.

Moyle
P.S. All that without getting fired up

You make a good point but I meant (although my writing is not that good) that both are good even the few kisses before the time and although one is more memorable than the other it does not mean that they should be "performed" seperately. People are more likely to remember the last effect but since they are linked to each other I do not think it leads to a negative conection. They compliment each other in my opinion. The specs do not distinguish between mentalism and sleight of hand when they see magic. For them it is either magic or it isn't. We distinguish between them.

Nice effect weapon but instead of just showing the spec the wrong card I would "accidentally" flash it to them. The double error with the wrong card and the fact they saw it when they are not supposed to makes more sense to me.

I agree with steve. To deliberately show them the "wrong" prediction is like telegraphing the pass in a football game. Play it as if your prediction is real, maybe begin to place it face down, perhaps drop it as if you made a mistake pick it up and top change instead?

I performed Weapon's original effect today. Just as he said it COMPLETELY floored everyone watching it. It all has to do with how you bulid up to the mindreading and the change. I think I will try steve_sargent method tomorrow and see which gets better results. I have used a color change and mindreading before in the same tick and they always blended nicely for me, it all depends on your personality. Thank you Weapon for the great trick, I hope to hear about more of them in the future.
Rob Pond

Its not an issue of whether or not its going to fool or floor them

If they don't know the force, control, double lift, how could they possibly be not fooled by this?

It comes down to this- do you want to keep working on making it stronger/more logical, or are you happy witht eh current incarnation.

Hey pond thanks for trying the effect... yea nord I agree..magic should always evolve

Ah.
I completely understand (well okay lets not say completely but hopefully lol) the point that you were trying to make. And I guess my ideas are more or less the same with your ideas.

Ah.. isn't art lovely lol

I seem to remember an effect where the performer shows the top card Which is not the one slected and then places it down on the table. They tell the people that with there mind they are going to make the card change into the selected card and of course when it is turned over it is the chosen card. (If I remember the name of the effect I will post)

What Weapon has done is taken this trick and made it more powerfull. In the previous example the people know that some type of trickery has happen. In Weapon's effect, he has added in the "I will read your mind and tell you what the card is", this shocks the people that he could even guess the card. Know with the card change it is the part that knocks them over. I do think that Moyle's change may make it even more powerfull.

For what it is worth, which is not much, I do not like the classic force. I would rather control the card, manily because I was never any good at this type of force.

Aiki, no classic force needed, just peek the card.. and have them shuffle...i always love the diea of the laymen shuffling the deck to really "lose" the card