On Jul 4, 2006, Mr. Z wrote:

Quote:

On 2006-07-04 19:53, Dannydoyle wrote:

I do see your point BUT at some point, if you don't have actual experience your lacking something. At some point you CAN gain that ground yes, I agree. Forte I guess doesn't do mucks under fire. Fine. I am not saying it discredits him immediately but it does taint his knowledge some.

I look at it like a teacher of law who has never been in a courtroom but will teach how to be in a courtroom. How can he do it? It is done a lot, but to me it lacks something.
NOTHING to disrespect anyone without experience, just saying goes a lot further than ONLY book knowledge. I said it before. BUT at some point, it helps to actually know from experience as well as books.

Steve learned from the best hold-out men alive in his younger years and can perform the mucks better than anyone. Moreover, he knows the how and when to use such moves, if he wanted to. I'd say Steve is unquestionably an expert on the subject of mucking, despite never actually using it. I don't know how that "taints" it at all, aside from the fact that he never employed the most risky form of cheating in his playing days.

On Jul 5, 2020, tommy wrote:
Well, as I recall, the Steve Fortes Gambling Invisible Thieves video states it is for amateur home game protection, as opposed professional game protection and so saying that it would not stand up in a casino environment seems to be a straw man argument. What moves would stand up to a casino environment?

On Mar 24, 2021, Dicetricks wrote:
Cag wrote that the booklet How to control fair dice by the KC Card Co is the best book written on the subject.

If Cag is still around it would be interesting why he has that viewpoint?

Are there better illustrations in the book that assist you in learning to replicate the tosses described in the book?

Funny how the few tosses out there are all the same but changed their names throughout the years to create new interest.

Scarne's book is pretty good.


Yuri had a toss from the end of the table with a flick of the wrist which was his favorite method of tossing the dice.

Forte's GPS videos are great but the interesting thing is that another person is demonstrating the pad roll which in my books is the closest thing you can get away with in a casino if properly disguised. Forward spin eliminates the transition of the spin from backwards to forwards which IMHO is key.

Is there anyone here that can prove they can do that shot? I can provide proof by replicating it the old fashioned way they did it in the military.

I agree with Jason that eliminating bounce roll and loft puts you miles ahead but might not stand up in a casino environment. Not hitting the back wall is a perfect example of having the grift to get the job done and bring back the money.

Doc I sent you videos to the email you provided a long time ago but never heard back from you. Could you pm me please.