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TheMagicalMan Loyal user 238 Posts |
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On 2013-11-06 16:05, serg wrote: Aha....so there are different prices for different versions huh ? Is there a huge difference in the price ? I was actually thinking of purchasing this levitation, but from what I heard John Gaughan is not building it anymore neither is Jim Steinemyer (or at least temporarily he stopped building it .... I don't know about now or if hes the builder of his version). I'm guessing the David Copperfield version must've been the Steinemyer version huh ?! |
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Oliver Ross Inner circle Europe 1724 Posts |
The Magicam Man,
Just to keep things straight, Jim Steinmeyer is NOT an illusion builder !!! He only designs illusions on the paper and eventually works them out with an illusion builder in a workshop. Oliver. |
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Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
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On 2013-11-07 02:01, Oliver Ross wrote: That's right. And furthermore - unless Jim has signed exclusive rights to build, he will typically let other folks build his designs as long as they pay the fee. So find a builder you like, and then simply contact Jim and pay the fee (or have the builder do it - but I'd probably want to do it myself to make sure it's done right, depending on the builder you choose). Then they can build your prop. The higher fees from guys like Johnny G are because he's well-known. So it's sort of like "designer jeans" or something. Doesn't mean the prop really is THAT much better. So there are other extremely competent builders who are less known and will do it for less. But certain illusions I wouldn't skimp on. Pole lev? Eh...dunno. Just not my thing I guess.
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
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Murray Hatfield Regular user Canada 150 Posts |
As an owner of a Gaughan Pole Levitation, I have to say it is a wonderful prop and worth every dime I paid for it. At the time (12 years ago) it was more like $12K including rights but everything goes up. In 1992 dollars it was a LOT of money. As for the price being TOO MUCH - a creator/builder can charge whatever they want. It's belongs to them. If you want it bad enough you pay the price. Then you end up with a wonderful piece of magic, built properly by the builder specified by the creator and you don't have a great deal of competition because very few can afford the prop. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on illusions and I paid for them by touring and performing - A LOT.
Just because you want something doesn't give you the right to have it. Just because you can't afford it doesn't give you the right to build it yourself, or to buy a bad copy from someone who thinks they've figured out the intricacies of how it works. And no - you can't find just any builder and pay Jim the rights. He restricts the builders who can build his creations because he knows that they will do justice to them. And the performer who spends a great deal of money buying an illusion will get a prop that works properly, lasts, is road worthy and, very importantly, is deceptive enough to fool the audience. That's what you're paying for. |
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David Charvet Special user www.charvetmagic.com 501 Posts |
Murray is spot-on.
John Gaughan has been building props for close to 50 years now and you DO get what you pay for. As far as it being "too much"(?)... Hey, I want a Rolls Royce for the price of a Yugo. Where can I get one?! Those people at Rolls Royce have been ripping people off for 100 years! After all, both the Yugo and Rolls have 4 wheels, an engine and a body. What's the difference?! |
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Chezaday Inner circle Naperville, IL 1673 Posts |
And I'll second what Mr. Hatfield and Mr. Charvet have stated. You don't know the research and development that was involved to get to the final version of each illusion. The parts and labor involved can really add up.
Sure you can buy junk from other builders but, they will never stand the test of time. One of my favorite quotes from a builder was "I hope you like the color ... because it's going to outlive both of us!" Now that really puts things in perspective ... Steve |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Stick with John. If you can't afford it, buy a chair suspension or do balloon animals.
Seriously, you get what you pay for. Some illusions are not only costly but they have to have extras like a supporting cast, scenery and lighting. Research and development of an illusion is costly. You may build something all the way through and it doesn't work. All the time and materials are scrapped and you start over. Also when you are dealing with people in illusions, there is a lot of liability in suppling such illusions that work with people. I know what I pay for product liability for my simple things. I can only imagine how costly the insurance on this would be. John has a proven track record of making illusions that work day in and out. Sure there may be other builders that have a good background. But if they may have other areas of expertise. John has already done the research work and made these several times and made them right. Again, I say stick with John. BTW, well said Murry, David and Chez. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Mad Jack Regular user 195 Posts |
I have operated an EDF version several times for a friend and thought it was really nice. I don't know if their version is cheaper than a John Gughan version or not though. Also, buying from a reputable builder and paying top dollar doesn't always mean that you're going to get a prop that works properly lol! Myself and many other performers I know have recieved props in the $6000-$12,000 range that didn't work properly! So just be careful when spending that kind of money.
Just my random thoughts, MJ |
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Sorcerer Loyal user 289 Posts |
Mad Jack, The guys leading EDF, John Uhern and Eric Olsen, used to work for John Gaughan and many of the illusions built in Gaughan's facilities were manufactured by them Their quality is top notch!!!
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Mad Jack Regular user 195 Posts |
Sorcerer, yes I am aware of that. In fact I'm sure they probably built my origami lol. I just didn't want to take possible business away from John's current shop. Either way, I'm sure you'll get what you pay for with either of these builders.
MJ |
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AllAboutMagic Veteran user California 333 Posts |
If I got $15,000.00 every time I created a Pole Levitation I'd be retired by now!
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DavidThomas Loyal user 240 Posts |
I own many illusions built by Gaughn, Smith, Mendoza and others. Over the years, because of having props by the builders, I understand many of their building techniques. Because of that, I build time to time some of my own creations. Until you try to build your own props to the highest standard, you will never understand how much time and money it takes.
In my opinion these builders deserve every penny that charge. Each prop they build is hand made, mostly one at a time. Yes sometimes in the case of Origami and ladder levi, because of demand they may build several at one time, but not in a "mass production." We are so used to going and buying items that are produced in the millions. If you were to go to a fabrication car shop and ask them to build you a custom, one of kind automobile from scratch, it could cost you 100s of thousands of dollars. The same car that cost you 20,000 of the lot. These builders have employees, the shop, tools.....all the overhead of running a business. $15,000 for a great prop, that will last a lifetime, keep a great resale value.....heck of a deal!!
David Thomas
TheWorldofMagic.com |
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AGMagic Special user Cailf. 775 Posts |
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On 2013-11-28 00:30, AllAboutMagic wrote: :)
Tim Silver - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Magic-Woodshop/122578214436546
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. Visualize Whirled Peas! |
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Murray Hatfield Regular user Canada 150 Posts |
AllAboutMagic - now imagine that out of that $15000.00 you have to pay $1500.00 to $2500.00 to the original creator for the rights (John Gaughan builds the Pole Levitation but Jim Steinmeyer is the creator. He (rightfully) gets paid for every one). Now pay the overhead for your shop, the materials for the prop, the tools to build it, the (high quality) staff who assist and then over the years build just the 20, 30 or 40 of the item. They don't build hundreds of an item like this. It's in the 10's and 20's except for a very few popular illusions. You seem to think that John Gaughan makes the entire price as profit. I can assure you that he makes a very small portion of that as profit.
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TaylorReed Special user Branson, MO 743 Posts |
Correct on that Murray and David. I bought my pole levitation at a time when I needed one really bad and fast..
John at the time was having a hard time finding parts and all that.. The cost back then was 10,500 1,500 was to Jim.. The cases were 900 at that time that means that the pole lev at that time was around 8,100 for John's part.. You have the cost of materials and labor.. around 3,500 to 4,000 then the rest is profit, if you want to call it that.. you have 4,100 left.. But then you have the rent or payment on the shop and electrical and shop up keep on tools etc.. So if you are not building a lot of illusions, then you are in trouble fast.. On a different note.. You may check with Bill Smith.. I think that he built a couple of the Pole lEv's for Broadway shows.. He always goes thru the proper channels... He is one of the World's Greatest Magic Builders.. I have a ton of his stuff and it works for 15 or 20 or more years.. I have a Kiosk that he built for Carlton and Company it must be 30 to 35 years old and it works every show.. I bought it from Carl when he retired. Most magicians don't think of illusions that are going to fool for the next 20 or 30 years.. If you stop and think to yourself, if I buy this now will it still be good 20 years from now.. If the answer is yes,,, then it is a good one.. And David Thomas mentioned resell value.. If you buy from the top builders. They keep the value much better.. I bought my pole lev for 10,500 from a guy that had only used it 3 times and it was in Mint condition.. I didn't have time to wait on John.. i used it for 8 years and sold it for 10,000 supply and demand.. People want the Pole Levitation and Origami.. So they seem to keep the value. I thought that the Pole was a good illusion for what it was.. It is a good 2 person practical illusion that can be done in the round... It has some limits.. It is not a show stopper... Like other illusions that I have had and performed. I'm doing levitation's now that blow it off the stage... but I still think it is a good one for being small and portable and can perform just about anywhere with it.. The current Levitation that I have been performing is by far a more impressive illusion, but is massive and heavy and takes a team. Take the good with the bad.. Taylor
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com taylor@taylorreed.com (979)482-0714 See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo |
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AllAboutMagic Veteran user California 333 Posts |
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On Mar 17, 2014, Murray Hatfield wrote: You obviously did not get the double entendre in my post Murray.......In no way was I discrediting Mr. Gaughan or other builders for that matter. I was simply making a play on words. |
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Oliver Ross Inner circle Europe 1724 Posts |
Someone shouldn't forget the point that illusion techique and building evolves. This is knowledge coming from building the props by hand through the time of years. The first Pole Levitation won't look the same as the latest one and won't work as smooth. The use of material changes aswell in time. All this is put to the profit of the illusionist who buys it and of course, it'll keeps rising the price.
Oliver. |
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Zlwin Chew Elite user Malaysian Magician with 437 Posts |
Can't wait to get my hands on one of these!
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