Kyle007,
I'm a bit lost. B'Wave is supposed to be a prediction. You supposedly reversed the prediction card in advance, and it eventually matched the one the Spectator chooses. Why would you show them all face down via E.C.? When you do that, the only explanation for the face up status is 'magic', as opposed to a prediction.

That may be the way you play it (as magic)...but as a prediction, I wouldn't do the E.C.

In Twisted Sisters, I DO perform the E.C. The reason is that the cards across, where the cards travel and appear face up in the opposite packets, is a magical effect initially.

Just my thoughts.

Some people perform Twisted Sisters as mentalism and not cards across. Some people perform B'Wave as magic and not mentalism. There is no one right way of doing either.

B'Wave is simply genius. It is one the best things ever to come from Maven.

My routine for twisted sisters: (magic and mentalism)

Toss out a brand new deck, (which you have previously opened, turned the queen of spades upside, but kept in new order deck, and resealed the bottom of the box and the cellophane). Asked the spec who caught it to hold it for a minute.

Force the queen of spades on another spec. (Criss cross force)

Then call up another spec.

Then do twisted sisters. You get 2 bangs for the buck---first, the trick itself.

Second, then say, actually, I knew you were going to choose the queen. Then have the spec with the deck come up, declare that he has examined the deck and it is unopened, the spec then opens the new deck, and spreads it on your close up mat, to show the queen of spades as the only face down card.

To me the weak part of twisted sisters was that before, you had to choose the queens, now they chose it.

Sometimes, 1/4 is better than 1/16 when it can produce such a powerful magic like B'Wave.

Sometimes 1/4 x 1/4 makes the effect complicated.

BTW, I have not found a good reason to sandwich the selected card between two Jokers.

Hideo Kato

I noticed a couple of times that the original instruction that I got from Eugene himself does not work all the time. For instance, when a spectator chooses red the first time, everything is fine. But, if he or she chooses black, I've already had three times that they said to me I must work towards the red ones because I threw the black ones away! If they choose black I change my patter now. Instead of throwing them away, I say I put these imaginary black ones in my breast pocket. So there are two red ones left in your hand. I want the spectator to think "What had happened if I chose the red ones??" at the end, NOT that I steered them toward a red card. Has anyody else had this problem and what was your solution??

Tha original instruction from Eugene?

Hideo Kato

Oh well, the original handling of Eugene, let's put it that way.

Patrick-

Regarding your concern about the spectator feeling that they were "steered" to the red cards, here's my wording to overcome that (and actually my patter is based on Greg Arce's excellent presentation which he posted here on another thread).

"Now I need for you to imagine replacing two of the queens back into the deck ... have you done that? Which queens did you put back into the deck ... the red queens or the black queens?"

[If Red] "Great. Take one of those red queens and turn it face-up in the deck, please. Which of the red queens did you turn face-up?"

[If Black] "So you now have the two red queens left? Take one of those red queens and place it into the deck face-up. Which of the queens did you place face-up?"

I think either line is wholly believable and seemingly logical ... none of that "select a card so we can discard it" kind of thinking which is always rather odd.

Wow - that's the best I've heard yet...............

“In my hands are four cards. They are the four Queens. Now, I have turned one of the Queens face-up as sort of a prediction. I’m not going to show her to you yet. Before I show her to you, you and I are going to travel back in time to the time just before we met, the time in which I set these cards into their current position.

Now, pretend that you are a fly on the wall watching my every move. You can see me removing the queens from the deck (pantomime this action. This will be of value in the future), and holding them in my hands. Next, you can see me removing two of the queens from the packet, and placing them onto the table in front of me. Now, I either removed the black Queens or the red Queens. Which did I remove? The choice is yours. The Black Queens, the Clubs and Spades? Are you sure that is you choice? Fine, so I removed the black Queens from the packet leaving the red Queens, the Hearts and Diamonds in my hand, correct? All right, so I took one of those red Queens, and held it up. Do not say anything out loud, but can you see whether it is the Hearts or Diamonds, yes, or no? Did I turn this face-up or did I leave it face down? Again, the choice is yours. Face-up? Are you sure? All right, so I turned this card face-up and placed it back onto the card in my hand. Then, I placed the two cards from the table back into the packet. So, which of the red Queens did you see me turn face-up, the Queen of Hearts or the Queen of Diamonds? Again, the choice is yours. The Queen of Diamonds, are you sure? Good, because the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face-up Queen.”

At this point the cards are spread to show that the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face up Queen.

“Now, you may be thinking that I got that result through some kind of luck, or coincidence. Luck had nothing to do with it, and the proof of that is the fact that the Queen of Diamonds was taken from a different deck!”

At this point the Queen is removed from the packet, turned face down, and replaced into the packet.

“Of course, you may also be thinking that I somehow, maybe through the use of some kind of magician’s sleight of hand, I turned the Queen of Diamonds face-up after you selected her identity. I did no such thing, and the proof of that lies in the fact that the Queen of Diamonds… is the only Queen in the pack!”

At this point the entire packet is turned over to show the Queen of Diamonds is the only card amongst three blank-faced cards.

That is my handling for B’wave. This is a wonderful trick and fries lay audiences as well as magicians. There are several problems with the performance and patter aspect of the effect as it is marketed, however. Please, do not miss understand me. I have the highest respect for Phil Goldstein, and his work. The routine as it is packaged is workable and does work. All I have done is expounded on Phil’s method by adding more presentation and changing the Equivoque to suit my style.

Plus the fact that magicians can’t seem to be able to tell the difference between B’wave and Twisted Sisters. While they are similar in the fact that the same gaffs are employed they are different not only in the overall effect, but method as well. Twisted Sisters uses a ploy wherein one spectator has a totally free choice and the other is forced to think of a queen of the opposite color. B’wave, on the other hand, uses Equivoque to narrow the choice down to one particular color. Twisted Sisters is a great magic trick. B’wave is a mental trick. They are very different.

Bring out the packet of cards and hold them squared in the left hand. Do not perform an Elmsley Count. This is a common mistake, because Twister Sisters use one at the beginning. Remember, you tell the audience that you turned one of the cards face up before you presented them, so to do an Elmsley Count to show 4 face down cards does not make any sense. Resist the temptation to make this a magic trick. Besides, if you show 4 face down cards, the rest of the patter and presentation does not make any sense.

Tell the spectators about the trip through time. Telling them to imagine you removing the Queens from a deck is a nice way of getting out of that, “Why do you keep those ‘special’ cards in that wallet?” problem, which really is not a problem for lay people. It is only a problem for magicians. If a magician sees another performer remove a few cards from a plastic wallet, he or she sees a magician removing gaffed cards. If, however, lay people see a magician removing a few cards from a plastic wallet, a few cards are all that they see. Lay people, generally, have not heard of “trick cards”. They have heard only of “trick decks”! I have never been asked if I am using trick cards after doing a packet trick. I have, however, been asked that annoying question after doing a series of cards tricks with a regular deck such as, The Ambitious Card and Triumph.

In the marketed patter, it is suggested that if the spectator selects the non-force color, you are to say something to the effect of, “All right, then I will remove the black cards and throw them away.” As in our Lobster analogy, this is extremely bad form. Here is where the word Remove can be used to our advantage. The basic rule is to never use the word Remove after the spectator has made a choice. Only use it before a selection is made. This way the word can be used as sort of a two-way swinging door. After a choice has been made you can place a different meaning onto the word if need be. Notice that I said that “I removed two of the queens and placed them onto the table in front of me.” All that implies is that I separated the black queens from the red queens (so far). Now, I ask the spectator, “Which did I remove the Black queens, or the red queens. The choice is yours”. Two things happen here. One, the answer to the question will determine the definition of the word Remove. Second (and possibly the more valuable for the spectator’s future recollection of events), the spectator is informed that the choice is theirs. The face up queen in the packet is red, so if they say that I removed the black queens, I then say, “The black queens, the Clubs and Spades. Are you sure?” By asking the spectator if they are sure implies that they could change their minds. If they say they are sure, then you repeat their apparent choice by saying, “Okay, so I removed the black queens.” Then I draw all attention to the “red queens” remaining in my hand.

If, on the other hand, they answer that I removed the red queens, then I draw all of the attention to the red cards that I removed from the packet, and placed on the table in front of me. The spectators will assume that I removed the red queens in order to use them. Do not mention the black queens again. When a spectator decides on the red queens, do not remind them of the black queens. Also, it is very important to name the suits!!! It is amazing to me that even magicians don’t think about the fact that each of the colors contain two different suits. There is nothing worse than to get to the pay-off of B’wave only to ask the spectator which card you turned face-up just to hear them say, “Uh… the red one.” I even had one inebriated soul answer, “Duh…all of them?” Anyway, I digress.

Notice that I remind the spectator that the “choice is theirs” about 3 times through out the trick. This is a very important thing of which to remind them. It makes them feel more in control of the situation. This is something used by Max Maven.

Now, pretend to pick up one of the red queens either from the packet in your hand, or off of the table depending on the choice of the spectator. Have him visualize which queen it is. Now is a good time to mention the red suits, hearts and diamonds. Ask him if this was the card you turned face-up or if you left it face down. Again, say, “The choice is yours” even though it really does not matter. Either way you get one of the red queens face-up.

The rest of the routine is just presentation. Just follow the rest of the script, and they will be talking about you for the rest of their lives.

Thanks

Thank you very much!it is very useful

666 -

Very nice handling! And I agree 100% ... the Elmsley count in B'Wave lessens the trick.

Regards,
Larry

[quote]On 2007-10-03 23:41, dpe666 wrote:
“In my hands are four cards. They are the four Queens. Now, I have turned one of the Queens face-up as sort of a prediction. I’m not going to show her to you yet. Before I show her to you, you and I are going to travel back in time to the time just before we met, the time in which I set these cards into their current position.

Now, pretend that you are a fly on the wall watching my every move. You can see me removing the queens from the deck (pantomime this action. This will be of value in the future), and holding them in my hands. Next, you can see me removing two of the queens from the packet, and placing them onto the table in front of me. Now, I either removed the black Queens or the red Queens. Which did I remove? The choice is yours. The Black Queens, the Clubs and Spades? Are you sure that is you choice? Fine, so I removed the black Queens from the packet leaving the red Queens, the Hearts and Diamonds in my hand, correct? All right, so I took one of those red Queens, and held it up. Do not say anything out loud, but can you see whether it is the Hearts or Diamonds, yes, or no? Did I turn this face-up or did I leave it face down? Again, the choice is yours. Face-up? Are you sure? All right, so I turned this card face-up and placed it back onto the card in my hand. Then, I placed the two cards from the table back into the packet. So, which of the red Queens did you see me turn face-up, the Queen of Hearts or the Queen of Diamonds? Again, the choice is yours. The Queen of Diamonds, are you sure? Good, because the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face-up Queen.”

At this point the cards are spread to show that the Queen of Diamonds is in fact the face up Queen.

“Now, you may be thinking that I got that result through some kind of luck, or coincidence. Luck had nothing to do with it, and the proof of that is the fact that the Queen of Diamonds was taken from a different deck!”

At this point the Queen is removed from the packet, turned face down, and replaced into the packet.

“Of course, you may also be thinking that I somehow, maybe through the use of some kind of magician’s sleight of hand, I turned the Queen of Diamonds face-up after you selected her identity. I did no such thing, and the proof of that lies in the fact that the Queen of Diamonds… is the only Queen in the pack!”

At this point the entire packet is turned over to show the Queen of Diamonds is the only card amongst three blank-faced cards.

That is my handling for B’wave. This is a wonderful trick and fries lay audiences as well as magicians. There are several problems with the performance and patter aspect of the effect as it is marketed, however. Please, do not miss understand me. I have the highest respect for Phil Goldstein, and his work. The routine as it is packaged is workable and does work. All I have done is expounded on Phil’s method by adding more presentation and changing the Equivoque to suit my style.

Plus the fact that magicians can’t seem to be able to tell the difference between B’wave and Twisted Sisters. While they are similar in the fact that the same gaffs are employed they are different not only in the overall effect, but method as well. Twisted Sisters uses a ploy wherein one spectator has a totally free choice and the other is forced to think of a queen of the opposite color. B’wave, on the other hand, uses Equivoque to narrow the choice down to one particular color. Twisted Sisters is a great magic trick. B’wave is a mental trick. They are very different.

Bring out the packet of cards and hold them squared in the left hand. Do not perform an Elmsley Count. This is a common mistake, because Twister Sisters use one at the beginning. Remember, you tell the audience that you turned one of the cards face up before you presented them, so to do an Elmsley Count to show 4 face down cards does not make any sense. Resist the temptation to make this a magic trick. Besides, if you show 4 face down cards, the rest of the patter and presentation does not make any sense.

Tell the spectators about the trip through time. Telling them to imagine you removing the Queens from a deck is a nice way of getting out of that, “Why do you keep those ‘special’ cards in that wallet?” problem, which really is not a problem for lay people. It is only a problem for magicians. If a magician sees another performer remove a few cards from a plastic wallet, he or she sees a magician removing gaffed cards. If, however, lay people see a magician removing a few cards from a plastic wallet, a few cards are all that they see. Lay people, generally, have not heard of “trick cards”. They have heard only of “trick decks”! I have never been asked if I am using trick cards after doing a packet trick. I have, however, been asked that annoying question after doing a series of cards tricks with a regular deck such as, The Ambitious Card and Triumph.

In the marketed patter, it is suggested that if the spectator selects the non-force color, you are to say something to the effect of, “All right, then I will remove the black cards and throw them away.” As in our Lobster analogy, this is extremely bad form. Here is where the word Remove can be used to our advantage. The basic rule is to never use the word Remove after the spectator has made a choice. Only use it before a selection is made. This way the word can be used as sort of a two-way swinging door. After a choice has been made you can place a different meaning onto the word if need be. Notice that I said that “I removed two of the queens and placed them onto the table in front of me.” All that implies is that I separated the black queens from the red queens (so far). Now, I ask the spectator, “Which did I remove the Black queens, or the red queens. The choice is yours”. Two things happen here. One, the answer to the question will determine the definition of the word Remove. Second (and possibly the more valuable for the spectator’s future recollection of events), the spectator is informed that the choice is theirs. The face up queen in the packet is red, so if they say that I removed the black queens, I then say, “The black queens, the Clubs and Spades. Are you sure?” By asking the spectator if they are sure implies that they could change their minds. If they say they are sure, then you repeat their apparent choice by saying, “Okay, so I removed the black queens.” Then I draw all attention to the “red queens” remaining in my hand.

If, on the other hand, they answer that I removed the red queens, then I draw all of the attention to the red cards that I removed from the packet, and placed on the table in front of me. The spectators will assume that I removed the red queens in order to use them. Do not mention the black queens again. When a spectator decides on the red queens, do not remind them of the black queens. Also, it is very important to name the suits!!! It is amazing to me that even magicians don’t think about the fact that each of the colors contain two different suits. There is nothing worse than to get to the pay-off of B’wave only to ask the spectator which card you turned face-up just to hear them say, “Uh… the red one.” I even had one inebriated soul answer, “Duh…all of them?” Anyway, I digress.

Notice that I remind the spectator that the “choice is theirs” about 3 times through out the trick. This is a very important thing of which to remind them. It makes them feel more in control of the situation. This is something used by Max Maven.

Now, pretend to pick up one of the red queens either from the packet in your hand, or off of the table depending on the choice of the spectator. Have him visualize which queen it is. Now is a good time to mention the red suits, hearts and diamonds. Ask him if this was the card you turned face-up or if you left it face down. Again, say, “The choice is yours” even though it really does not matter. Either way you get one of the red queens face-up.

The rest of the routine is just presentation. Just follow the rest of the script, and they will be talking about you for the rest of their lives.
[/quote
I know this is a pretty old post . I found it last night. Pure Gold ! I had to share it with anyone thinking of doing this packet trick.
hth
Ralph

Yep! I actually used to do it this way at times, when I had a bit more time to present it. But most times I don't have the time. But if you do have the time, this is an absolutely great way to do it, I agree, it can help make a truly great effect even more memorable and amazing.

Hi
I like it because it can stop a wise guys from telling you he removed a red and a black queen instead of two of the same color queens. I don't know if this ever happened to anyone here but I'm sure it would happen to me!

I have gotten that at times but it's easy enough to steer folks to either red or black queens as you need them, it's all in the words. This longer presentation addresses it but you can make sure the same way in the more shorter presentation as well. If you solidly put it into their heads, either the black ones or the red ones then they will follow that line as they are following all the rest of it as you put it.

Still, this longer presentation gives you a lot of subtler info on B'Wave and the specs IMHO. It really takes you into how the effect plays out in real time. You get this thing down right and you have yourself a great piece of the puzzle completed as to a nice closeup presentation, just add in a nice engaging Coins Across and an amazing closeup effect and you're ready to rock & roll out there.