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Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
Before I embark on memorizing a new stack I'd love to hear any suggestions and comments on the following. I've made my stack decision based on ideas from Aronson, Tamariz, Ackerman, Skinner, Close, Swiss and others.
Objective: 1) Perform some incredible MD effects as part of my close up and parlor performances. 2) Close with the deck magically going back to full deck order. This in my opinion is one of the most incredible effects one can do with an ordinary deck of cards.If done with conviction it is one of the most incredible effects in magic. 3) If possible, be able to start from new deck order 4) If possible have built in effects 5) Minimize the handling needed to go from MD order to full deck order. My Solution: Start in European new deck order and give the deck 5 out Faro shuffles. See Tamariz book Mnemonica on simple way to convert American order to European order(should take under 30 seconds).You are now in stack order and can do any stack independent trick. Why is this my solution?:Originally I looked into ideas of Skinner and others of just starting in new deck order and giving the deck 5 Faro shuffles. This would solve most of my criteria above but by going to European order first, I have the advantage of being able to perform most of the built in effects from Mnemonica if I wished to. The reason why I prefer this stack to the Tamariz Mnemonica stack is my performing situations seldom allow me the time and handling that must be done to go from stay stack order to Mnemonica order back to stay stack and finally to new deck order. Instead I can very easily start in MD order and 3 Faro's later I'm in new deck order. If I want to take advantage of some of the stack dependent effects in Mnemonica I could give the deck 4 Faros, perform some great stay stack effects such as Super Poker,The Missing Card, and Prodigious Memory. I would then give the deck a Faro and do some MD effects and finally conclude with the entire deck in full deck order. I could also, if I want, bring the deck to Mnemonica order after 4 Faros and some additional handling and then back to stay stack then to MD order and finally to new deck order but it is doubtful I would ever do all this. It is just too much time and handling for my circumstances. In other words I am memorizing my stack while the deck is in stay stack order and not after the additional handling of going to Mnemonica order. This will enable me to perform 95% of any MD effects I would ever want plus have the ability to be only 3 Faros away from one of the strongest effects in magic-the entire deck in new deck order. I hope the above makes sense and welcome any comments and ideas. I'd like to learn my stack in 2006 so I can use it in 2007. An early new years resolution. Thanks Steve |
Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
The choice of a memorized deck stack depends on what you wish to accomplish.
Both the Aronson and Tamariz (Mnemonica) stacks allow for poker deals, including any hand called for, a bridge deal, spelling effects, and many other effects. While the Tamariz stack allows for shuffling into and out of European new deck order, almost all effects with the Aronson stack, such as any hand called for, requires no more than a single cut, whereas several of the effects done with the Mnemonica stack require displacing cards while shuffling. On the other hand, it's not practical to shuffle the Aronson stack into new deck order at all. There are a few other advantages unique to each of these stacks, but for the most part, they are very similar in what can be accomplished. While most of the routine I do are stack independent, I would never, ever, want to shuffle back into new deck order after certain routines because it would be more likely that the audience would realize I had control of all the cards rather thinking I magically made them all rearrange themselves. A trick like Everybody's Lazy leaves people totally amazed, and skill cannot explain the effect. Once they realized the cards were controlled, it would give a strong hint to the method. That is not to say it's a bad effect to magically bring the cards in order, it's just not the best effect to use after performing certain routines. And, there are so many other routines that bring the deck into a recognizable order, such as Triumph, Michael Close's Bammo Card Walloper, and Paul Jay's Faronell, that I would prefer to do these separately with a totally different deck. After performing some memorized deck routines, I give the deck away to eliminate the idea of a gaffed deck. (I do this even when a gaffed deck wouldn't explain the effect). So, it's pretty easy to introduce a new deck. There are plenty of opportunities to change decks while performing, and often it needn't even be done covertly, which makes achieving any one stack-based routine simple to work into an act. Although I know the Aronson memorized deck stack cold, I do intend to learn the Tamariz stack someday, or at least one other memorized deck stack. There are advantages to knowing more than one memorized deck stack. There is no right answer in choosing a stack, it all depends on what routines you want to perform.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
Bob Farmer Elite user Magic Forest 428 Posts |
That would be Bob Farmer's Bammo Card Walloper!
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Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
Bill,
Thank you for your response. While I fully agree that getting the deck back to new deck order can sometimes hint at the method I also believe that with proper routining this will not be the case. A good example is Ackermans Opener where the routine is structured with so much shuffling by both spectator and magician that the possibility of a stack is eliminated. I also prefer switching in the stacked deck rather than starting with one. After perfoming other effects that do not require maintaining the stack this too would reinforce my objective of eliminating in the spectators mind the possibility of a stack. I can only tell you that many years ago I saw a Tamariz performance tape where he climaxed with the deck in order. I spent the next 10 years trying to figure it out. I rewound the tape many times and could not find a switch. In fact I did not have a clue. It wasn't until Mnemonica came out that I finally realized what he had done. I still think in most cases a switch will be more suspect than using a MD. While Aronsons stack is excellent he designed it primarily with built in gambling effects. If this is your syle then great but I prefer much more variety and usually don't have the table space for these types of exhibitions. I would much rather have the new deck order climax. The gambling effects in Aronson's stack will also destroy the stack so must be done after your MD work in most cases. I fully agree that the choice of which stack to use depends upon your objective and performance style. That is why I listed my objectives before I gave you the reasons for my solution. If I were to do an entire card act I probably would go with the Tamariz stack. Likewise if my act was primarily geared towards a gambling theme I might consider the Aronson stack. In my case, however, I prefer variety and cards is only a portion of my act. I prefer a similar routine to Ackerman where I can reach an incredible climax after only a few MD effects. |
Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Hi Steve,
It seems to me that you have thought through your requirements very well and have a great plan. I would suggest, however, that it should NOT take you a year to learn your stack. Even if your standards are high, and you seek true mastery, I think that three months is a reasonable goal for reaching the point that you can use it in front of audiences. One of the reasons I believe this is that it's possible to practice, once you have the basic stack down, at all kinds of odd moments in your day. There are mental drills which don't require you to have a deck with you and which can be done while driving, standing in line, waiting in a waiting room, during TV commercials, etc. I have lots of concrete suggestions for practice in the mem-deck section of my web site. In particular, read the article on mem-deck mastery. The key to your project is discipline. Vow to never allow a day to go by without spending just a few minutes working on the memorization of your stack. On some days, you can devote more time, of course. Use Nick Pudar's Stack View program when you can. With your stack in hand, you may very well discover many fortuitous situations build into the stack that enable you to do particular routines. Many of the things that have been discovered with the Aronson and Tamariz stacks were not intentionally built in. It's likely you will find a way to do the Kruskal Count effect(s) with your stack if you look for it as just one example. All the best. Let me know if I can help in any way. Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
Dennis,
Thanks for your response and your web site is wonderful. I did not mean to imply it would take me a whole year to learn the stack. I figured to learn it now and be able to use it the beginning of 2007. As a matter of fact the stack took me less than 30 minutes to learn. A little before breakfast, after breakfast and on my way to work. I've been using Harry Loraynes systems for over 40 years and am still amazed how easy it is to memorize a deck once you've learned the basics of mnemonics. I will,however, continuously practice so that the stack becomes imbeded in my mind and my thinking does not show when performing. I've already used some of your ideas in practicing the stack and they work very well. My main reason for posting this thread was for someone like yourself who is experienced with MD work to let me know if I'm on the right path before I spend the several months imbeding this in my head. Thanks for your help. Steve |
Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Steve,
You are on the right path because you THINK and ****yze and do things for good reasons. The argument about the advisability of combining mem-deck routines with a finale where the cards appear in NDO is a thorny one. Often times the difficulty with lay people is to get them to watch closely. If, in the middle of a routine, they turn and talk to someone else, they will assume that you switched the deck when they looked away. I've found ways to do some card effectgs that would not need a mem-deck, but which can be done with one and retain the stack. This is a wonderful throw off when you do actually use the mem-deck principle. The sophitication of your audience affects your choice of material, what techniques will fool them, and the basic advisability of even doing card magic for them. With some groups, you're better off to do a quick sponge ball routine and beat a hasty retreat. But, when you have an intelligent, attentive, group that's familiar with cards... then you open up and do the truly sophisticated card stuff in your repertoire. I'm please to hear that you are conversant with mnemonics generally. It can and will help your magic in many ways. Dennis Loomis All the best and let me know how you are doing.
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
Thanks again for your help.
Steve |
Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
Bob Farmer wrote:
Quote:
That would be Bob Farmer's Bammo Card Walloper! Oops, my apologies! I just turned 50 this year, and I get mixed up sometimes! Ok, I got mixed up long before that too at times! Sorry! More on topic, I highly recommend getting all of Simon Aronson's books in addition to Mnemonica, but in particular Simply Simon, which has my favorite memorized deck routine, and is full of other great magic. That routine is not in Mnemonica, but is mentioned in the back of the book.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-12 19:42, Bob Farmer wrote: I truly enjoy this gem. Here's the description of Bob Farmer's Bammo Card Walloper - - Here's what the audience sees: A deck is removed from its case, casually shuffled, and shown to be in no particular order. Half the deck is turned face up and half is turned face down and the two halves are then mixed together. SPREAD face-up on the table, the deck is seen to be a chaotic mess of face-up and face-down cards, suits, and values. The deck is squared, then immediately re-spread: Now, impossibly, not only are ALL the cards face-up, but the entire deck is in order, by value and suit! Unbelievable!
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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