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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
That's a good glimpse of the routine, stripped to its bare essence; burning a sneaker or shoe, offering replacements, restoring the shoe. But there is so much more to the full routine than that. However, if someone were to post a video showing all the comedy you can draw out of the effect, whether with the OOPS machine, the Wiz Kote, or even with Wolf's newest (and as yet unreleased) product, every magician would be copying that one routine. So, I sincerely hope no one will ever go so far as to post a video of the complete effect. Jim Gerrish convinced me NOT to release the DVD he had worked on all summer showing the building AND the performance of his OOPS Machine, and now I believe he is correct. It sits in our personal library and is only available to train the Wiz Kid performer who will be learning and performing the trick next.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Tim Hannig Inner circle Chicago area 1147 Posts |
I liked the video. Looks like a fun show.
The announcement Sam used in the beginning is from my Announcements CD. Pretty cool to see it being used up in Canada!
Author of PERFORM, the 2020 Magic Cafe Book of the Year
"I loved this book!" Ken Weber "4 out of 4 stars!" Nick Lewin "This will be a classic of magic!" Mark Pocan performbettershows.com |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
To my knowledge, Chalet has exclusive rights to produce and market the Wiz Kote. I don't think calling it the "Sonic Shoe Shine" and copying the basic effect and design would prevent it from being a rip-off. I can't imagine someone of Chance Wolf's reputation doing something like that. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Fairchild Entertainment has a very similar prop. How do you determine what's a "rip-off" and what's a new effect? The Fairchild prop has quite a few additional features that the Chalet prop doesn't have. I think it's fair enough for them to market such a prop, as they're not simply making a copy of the original. Hopefully, if Chance does make a "Wiz-Kote", it will have his special brand of cartoon comedy about it. Sorry, but for me and my style of shows, the Chalet prop just doesn't look cool enough. I like the Fairchild version, but it's very expensive. And without seeing the prop for real, it's hard to judge if it's worth the extra bucks. Chance Wolf's props are always a bargain, especially when he first issues them and you get a special price.
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
Well, I basically had this concern because the news and promotion of the Sonic Shoe Shine came to us in the form of a revamped Wiz Kote. I have the utmost respect and admiration of Wolf's products. I would just hope that any similar Wiz Kote type effect would be significantly different and not appear to be cannibalized from the original "Wiz-Kote". The line between innovation and imitation has become very fuzzy these days, as we all know.
Fairchild's version of the effect is actually a nest of boxes type effect, significantly different in my opinion. Chance actually states in a post here that his version will be "very close to the one shown" in a link on this thread. It shows a Chalet Wiz-Kote that has a cartoon face-lift. Chance even said he scrapped his original "wacky" version, as it would be cost prohibitive. Unless Chance and Chalet have some deal that we aren't aware of, I hope to see something that is more Wacky Wolf original in design and not just a tooned-up Wiz Kote. Chance has too much talent and creativity for me to expect anything less. |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
The Wiz-Kote has its limitations. Every time I perform it, I look for the smoke detectors, or consider a location.
You don't need the Fire Department arriving and interrupting the show.
Dennis Michael
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dking66 Loyal user 261 Posts |
Chance has an agreement with Steve Hart and Chalet to create a modified version of the "Wiz Kote". As you say...we would expect nothing less of Chance Wolf.
Doug |
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Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Hey folks,
No need to let the "rip-off" topic begin to spin out of control. I have already posted, in this thread, that Steve Hart and I have discussed the manufacturing rights. Let me, briefly, take you through the genesis of this project. Three years ago, I discovered the Original Chalet Wiz Kote. One of my customers made me aware of the effect and said it would be a good one to WACK-OUT. I felt the concept was great, but the design was weak. No offense intended to George of Chalet, I just thought it could be more wackier and "Machine-Like". Maybe, even change the workings a bit. I researched who created the effect, Steve Hart, and IMMEDIATELY called Steve. (This was still 3 years ago.) We discussed the possibility of me designing a new version, marketing it, and giving him a royalty fee (standard business practice and we PAY the royalties). Steve said no problem, and to send him a prototype for approval. I battled this project for years, as its method/workings had some drawbacks that I wanted to solve. This resulted in one of my biggest challenges to date. How can I make this a "One Man" effect? I finally came to a solution which, as John Bowlin expected from me, is COMPLETELY different than the Original Wiz Kote. Let's call it "Wacky Wiz-Kote 2000". (WWK2000) (Let me make clear that the "Sonic Shoe Shine" is NOT the new version. The SSS is just a super duper Re-Facing of an existing Chalet Wiz-Kote.) I then learned that Chalet was having trouble keeping up with the orders and getting an Original Chalet Wiz-Kote was difficult. Clearly there was a market for these, so I decided to move on the project. I CALLED Steve Hart (a couple weeks ago) and began negotiating the final deal. We came to an agreement and will finalize it when the final prototype is complete. "Sonic Shoe Shine" (SSS): Original Plot. Same basic workings with extreme innovations to design, structure, materials, and electronics. The materials alone will be over 5 times the cost of the original. It will look similar to the photo of Doug's SSS, but I will be using a Brushed Aluminum finish to make it more "Machine-Like" and top it off with layers of colors. Estimated price $700-$800 "Wacky Wiz-Kote 2000"(WWK2000): Brand new plot/prop, workings/methods. ONE MAN OPERATION!! It will retain the "Burnt Shoe" plot, but that is where the similarities end. Still in development. Once you see this prop and its workings, you will understand the higher price. Estimated price $995-$1200 This leaves me with a dilemma. Should I release the WWK2000 and sell far less units, as it has a high price range, or release the SSS at a lower cost, selling more units? Hmmmm...so I HOPE to release BOTH designs at near the same time. I hope this clears things up. Now, I gotta get back to my new Baby Boy!! Thanks, Chance Wolf Wolf's Magic
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
Thanks for addressing that, Chance. You have cleared my foggy mind. Please excuse my oversight of the Steve Hart post. Sounds like there will be much anticipation of these new effects coming out of the Wacky Wolf shop!
Congratulations on the baby boy! ....hope your life is forever changed as wonderfully as mine. |
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optimystik New user 84 Posts |
[quote]On 2006-12-06 09:57, Chance Wolf wrote:
I felt the concept was great, but the design was weak. ___________________________________________________________ I'm sorry to bring this up again...but, I also agree that the "concept" is great. It is FANTASTIC!... and the "concept" is actually more than 90% whole thing. Not just the look or design of the box. It is the plot or routine that holds the real value of the "burnt & restored shoe effect/routine" regardless of whether the box is made out of cardboard or solid gold. I am sure that Chance's version of the prop will be absolutely awesome .. as is obvious by taking one look at all of his other beautiful props...and his version will take this "concept" to new heights. But, the awesome concept for this trick was conceived, performed, perfected and then published in Genii magazine years before this chalet version came out. Whatever has been done with it by chalet is nice but I don't see why their permission is necessary when you are not copying the name of the trick or the design of the box. The design of the "Wiz-Kote" box may be their property...but the original concept and routine was PUBLISHED years before their version. I thought this mix up had been corrected. It is the concept or routine that is "the thing"... and historically and factually the "rights" to this effect were given freely to all of the magic community when the original creator, Jim Gerrish, generously published the routine in Genii well before it was "invented" by chalet. If I wanted to build, produce and sell my new "Shoe Toaster" illusion...I would credit the original source as an idea in Genii magazine by Jim Gerrish. Would I have to get permission from Chalet if I am not copying their "box design" or name? I really don't understand this. Perhaps I am wrong. I am not an attorney and I don't bring this up as a legal matter. It just bugs me for some reason that the real inventor of this routine/concept/trick does not get the proper credit....and somehow someone else ( other than the inventor )is constantly credited and must be consulted as to the rights of this effect. I have no financial or other vested interest in this so I can't explain why I chime in here with this...it just doesn't seem right. Honestly, can someone explain to me or correct me if I am wrong? I may be wrong, I understand that. I am not an expert in magic history, but if the concept/routine was PUBLISHED ... doesn't that prove who the original creator is? The historical record is there for all to see. Is this routine published somewhere else prior to the Genii/Jim gerrish article? Mr. Gerrish's routine was published "years" before the chalet version. There are plenty of Gold Nuggets in the old Genii magazines. Can I just grab an overlooked and little used trick from an old Genii magazine and then claim manufacturing rights? Even if, by accident, I "re-invented" something...once it is discovered that the "invention" already existed...it is time to credit the original source in some way...not just ignore the fact that it had been done already. Can I create a new "look" to the "Sucker Die Box"....give it a different name ...and then expect that everyone who builds a "sucker die box" must come to me for rights to peform or sell the old "die box" routine? Seems ridiculous. Anyway, sorry to get off topic but...as I said...it just bugs me for some reason. Something is not right. Jim Gerrish, the inventor, sat by humbly and quietly for years. Maybe I am wrong to make an issue of this now and maybe he would not appreciate me bringing this up but I am a fan of his burnt & restored shoe routine and had been for many years before the "wiz-kote" was ever heard of or "invented" for that matter. Maybe this has been settled in some other way that I am unaware of and if so I apologize for bringing it up. I have nothing against Chalet magic or Steve Hart but since the Genii article has been brought to light... doesn't this matter? If someone can show me where this routine has been performed or published prior to Jim's Genii article I will then have a better understanding and I'll delete this post myself if possible. Stephen Christopher |
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
I was always under the impression that when you get an idea or design directly from a published source, it was alright, legally, morally and ethically to produce it FOR YOUR OWN USE, and not to sell. If you read things like Kevin James articles/ideas in magazines, it's usually followed by a "not to be produced for sale" legality. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV...that's just what I always THOUGHT. I could be wrong...
Steve |
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KV Magic New user Missouri 58 Posts |
Back to the original question, Lance Burton did his version of the effect on his "The Encounter" TV special.
I don't know if it is available online anywhere. KeithM |
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
You'll find it on amazon.com for about $6.00 in the Lance Burton "The Secrets of Magic" DVD. Strangely enough the trick is included in the section called "Cheating Death" and if you go searching for it scene by scene, appears in the section called "Vanishing Women." The index was obviously not put together by a librarian, but it's in there.
I showed the DVD to Jim Gerrish and we both had a great laugh at the huge size of the fancy trunk and table Lance uses. You could almost put the kid inside it. However, Lance's presentation is impeccable, as always, and the audience loves the way he handles the kid and that's the crux of the routine, no matter if you build Jim's OOPS machine for $10 or buy the most expensive box (which would have to be the one Lance Burton uses, I imagine). The problem both Jim and I have with these slick, classy-looking props is that you don't get that terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach that "this crazy guy just burnt a litle kid's shoe with his kaca-mamie home made invention!" Maybe Chance Wolf will bring back that feeling with his version so the audience will be fooled along with the little kid. Get ready for the bad pun: Let's give him a Chance!
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Stephen,
You have a very strong point and I believe you are correct regarding the origination of the plot of a burnt shoe being published/created by Jim Gerrish before Steve Hart's Wiz Kote. I asked permission from Steve hart/Chalet due to the fact that I will be using their Design both structurally and method. I have added my own tweaks etc. but in the end the "Sonic Shoe Shine" will basically be the same. I felt it deserved permission and royalty payment as they have done the bulk of the R&D ( which is a LOT) I will NOT be paying any royalties on my "Wacky Wiz-Kote 2000"( this will NOT be the actual name) as Steve agreed I went so far past everyone else's original version that it clearly warranted a new effect. In the end...everyone will be happy Thanks Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Chance, I'm surprised that there would be a market for both machines, if they're both to be priced as you say, about $800 and $1200. Wouldn't it make sense, if I decided to buy the $800 version, to just save a while longer and get the $1200 version? Obviously, you know your markets. Perhaps going over the $1000 mark puts some folks off?
Anyway, you know I'll be after the "deluxe" version. I agree with Spellbinder that making folks think you may have ruined the shoe with a home made device is a great angle, but I also know that creating that impression is more to do with presentation than the actual prop. I love the "shabbiness" of the Wacky Weasel's box, but of course, in fact, it's beautifully designed to look shabby! |
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Clownboy Veteran user 355 Posts |
On the issue of where the ideas (tricks) come from; I like what Scott Alexander said in his video. "We all stand on the shoulders of Giants" We may never know who the original creator or inspiration is.
Chance, Your touch mixes Cartoons to magic. For Children/family entertainers this is a fantastic thing. You are not just creating a trick your also creating comedy props. I always expect to pay more because (beside the great quality) I am getting more then a trick. Please, Please add me to your list of the Deluxe Wacky Washer. I will mortgage my house, sell my vehicles and amputate my right arm to have one of these! This will, however, require that you make this a one handed trick. Brad
As the Frogs say "Times Fun when you're having Flies"
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SteveWoyce New user Family Entertainer 11 Posts |
Dan Wolfe from Smoky Mountain Magic has a new version of this out called the Jarrett Machine. The reason I went with this version is because it can be done with a single person, no need for an assistant. Here is quick video of my performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrGBVZGEQyg
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
A little pricey.
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