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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
I find this very interesting. Do people for example find Tom & Jerry 'violent' or side splitingly funny? At one time I used to screen Tom & Jerry in a cinema in Spain to an international cross section audience. We screened a lot of other stuff too.
But Tom & Jerry almost blew the roof off and was rated Number One. It needed no language. In Germany they have Kasper or Kasperl as he is sometimes known. Who is he? He WAS the German Punch. Banging about like Mr Punch. Kasper IS today a meek and mild do-gooder. A post war reaction. I take my Punch & Judy show to Germany. Like Tom & Jerry it's very international and most German children and certainly younger adults and families understand English extremely well. The show works to packed audiences. They love it. And older German grandparents confide they remember Kasperl being fun like this till the guts were taken out of him. As one told me "Now he is only fit for kindergarten." No one in Germany, nor Belgium nor the Netherlands nor France nor Switzerland nor Austria nor Italy nor Spain nor Portugal is the least bit concerned about the knockabout humour. It's like Tom & Jerry. This has nothing to do with quote "assault and battery, domestic violence, child abuse" quote. It does include quote "disregard for law and authority" quote but with an aspect people may overlook. The children watching know what is right and wrong. They don't have to be told. Adults continually tell them what is right and wrong. They know the difference. It is Mr Punch who doesn't know the difference. And the children recognise it. Suddenly we have a role reversal. Instead of an adult telling the children how to behave, it is the children telling Mr Punch how to behave. The children are empowered by the show. It's a very moral tale. Or as the Punch Proprietor told Mr Mowbray (London Labour & The London Poor 1850) "It's a werry moral story Sir." 'V' was often pronounced 'W' in those days, a hangover from earlier times. And weren't the old cowboy and Western films of yesteryear, despite all the shooting and killing and robbing, weren't they moral stories too? Didn't the bad - who always wore black! - didn't they get their comeuppance as well? Mr Punch certainly does. He gets scared to death. There aren't Ghosts and a Devil in the show for nothing you know. It's still a werry moral tale!
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
I have seen P&J done well for an American audience but it was nothing like what I saw in those previous clips. It was Americanized for an American audience. British and American humor don't always coincide. Ask most Americans what the two shortest international celebrity lists are and they'll tell you "funny British comedians and French war heroes".
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
If words were important a lot of entertainment would wither on the vine. That's the whole point about Punch.
The humour is visual and international. A good Punch show does not depend on many words. Action, sight gags, not words. If you have seen a show quote "Americanized for an American audience" quote you haven't seen a true Punch & Judy show. Please be very careful about French War Heroes. There were a great many of them who suffered and died dreadful deaths after having obtained and transmitted vital information in an effort to smooth the troop landings and to save Allied Forces lives in Europe in 1944. Vital disruption of the enemy's supply lines by sabotage was accomplished by these brave men and women. Please, don't forget the women. If you visit France go to Bayeux and see the memorial. You will need to allow a long time as there are so many names on it. My family know a number of them. They helped them to train and prepare in England before returning to France to carry out their missions, and to know betrayal, torture and their inevitable death. They went knowing the risks. The ultimate list of French War Heroes is much longer than you may suppose. The sadness was that so many of them were dead.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9v_5POyoVl8&feature=related
I must confess I am a little surprised at the ignorance some Americans have about Punch and Judy. This is a video clip I have found which might help clarify some aspects of this great British tradition. While many seem to spend their waking hours lusting after the latest and greatest puppet, or even a remote control puppet, children will continue to love Punch and Judy and Sooty and Sweep.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Well done Tom. I hadn't picked up on this from Bryan Clarke. Do take a look - this is ABOUT Punch rather than the show itself.
Bryan made figures for Supreme magic from about 1980 till they closed and must today be the largest producer of Punch figures in the country. This is an excellent video taken from a TV programme so is very high quality. Do take a look.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
The booth he uses seems rather delicate, as though it is designed more for indoors. How would this stand up on a beach on a windy day, or do P and J men use a more stable booth when they are performing outside?
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
You are right Tom. It does look flimsy, but the lazy-tongs design seen there originated with George Blake in 1946. Or put it this way: lazy tong elements were being used by Victorian Showmen but it was George who put it all together for himself between the wars.
He advertised his plans in the first editions of Abracadabra - very expensive just for the paper plans. Trouble was you couldn't buy the materials in 1946! It has since become the standard design for frames, whatever material they are made from, wood, aluminium, steel, plastic and rigid nylon in some cases. It's an engineered design and as such the total strength is greater than the sum of its parts. That one looks to me to be made primarily for indoor use though it would work outside quite happily except in strong wind. A frame designed mainly for outdoors would be made of slightly thicker timber than an indoor one. Remember that weather like rain is a nuisance but that's all. It's wind that does the real damage. You need a strong frame outdoors and it surprises many people to find that out in an open field the booth is usually easier to handle and stands up to poor weather better than when in a town or city centre. There the wind can whip around a pedestrianised area and buffet and twist the booth as the wind flies around and bounces off the buildings. It can be quite nasty. A permanent seaside beach booth on the other hand, working seven days a week, would be likely to be semi-permanent and rigid, made from bolt together panels and painted with a roof. It would have a floor, a locking door at the rear and a window like shutter to block and secure the proscenium opening. Built up in spring and pulled down at the end of the season before the autumn gales. Most people these days use a small booth, about 6 feet high, and work stood behind a gauze, see-through scenic cloth using hands in front of face. These work well indoors but not always so well outside. The secret is to perfectly blackout the area in which the performer stands so he remains invisible through the gauze. Any scrap of light getting in and the audience will make out the face and the illusion exposed. But for the most traditional of performances, with figures moving around each other the performer has to work hands above head and the minimum height of booth is likely to be 7.5 to 8 feet. My own is much bigger. This allows the frantic chase scenes of old. And big booths, 9 or 10 feet high are more vulnerable to wind so need to be built strongly and well fastened down. Everything like this in the UK has to be inspected, tested, risk assessed and covered by insurance for a minimum of £10 million and that's US$20 million. I wonder how many entertainers in the USA carry even US$1 million?
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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richards New user Brian Richards 82 Posts |
I think that it would be great to perform a P & J show for the parents that tell little Johny not to get a balloon sword, since swords are bad. Here is a question to ponder...
Do you know anyone that isn't tired of Political Correctness? Bring on Itchy and Scratchy! Brian |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-19 14:30, richards wrote: Quite right, Mr. Richards! Of course, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Itchy and Scratchy". Are they clowns? I find that PC has invaded even Britain, and we find ourselves inundated by uptight fanatics who have no sense of humour whatsoever.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Well, this is the beginning of the newspaper silly season. They are looking for stories and with the recent Covent Garden May Fayre with lots of Punchmen gathering to celebrate the birthday of Mr Punch - May 1662 - the papers pick up and run with stories.
It is quite true Punch no longer works on the beach as he once did. But lots of people used to entertain on the beaches and they vanished in the 1950s.There is still plenty of Punch about, lots of it in miniature indoor booths at Birthday parties. You must remember that a British Birthday Party is an event lasting at least two hours. So it takes lots of material and Punch is just one. Remember too, the British parent expects a full hour magic show as well as Punch and games and music. To be sure where Punch workers have changed is not just birthday party work but they don't go travelling as they did. They will go out and visit and come home but only a few travel round the country, showing and moving on to another. I am one of the last shows touring like this, working showgrounds. And if I ever brought my show to America you would find it marketed as a family show. Over here small audiences of say 400 would perhaps comprise 60 children and 240 adults. It is increasingly popular which is why these big shows, where audiences of 1000 and more have to be controlled, keep booking me back, year after year. So the show is healthy enough. It's just a matter of where it shows which has changed over the years.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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zimsalabim Special user Orlando Floirda USA 520 Posts |
This is very interesting. You say Americans don't know much of Punch and Judy and you are right Tom no doubt . But then you ask about ICHY AND SCRATCHY. They are part of that great American institution of "THE SIMPSONS". I think that explains alot. I saw a wonderful Punch show in London when I was there loved it no more voilent than Looney tunes. I thought about how much fun it would be to recreate that show for my audiences at home. But alas laziness won out.
Great stuff here. Z
Joe Zimmer
"The Second Greatest Magician in the World" Who is the Greatest? Everybody else! Borrowed with respect from the late Great Eddie Fechter Owner of the Forks Hotel Zimsalabim Orlando Florida |
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Chris Egleston New user currently: Athens (and LOVING it!) 24 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-20 06:20, Tony James wrote: Here, here! This is why it makes me quite ill to see those automated puppets coming out...and even those automated "trax" cheapen the effect in my view. If you don't have the actual skills to do the job, don't take the job. Otherwise, you simply make the art form look cheap. Have you ever considered coming to Italy to teach some "Punch" workshops, Tony?
The Winner of the Dickingham Award for Best Children's and Family Entertainer on EARTH as voted by a bunch of stodgy, self-important hobbiest hacks and the children they tricked into attending a sad, boring event at the Mastication Lodge in Nosepick, Gree
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Italy. Rome? I think that might just be like taking coals to Newcastle!
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Summer when there was a lot of Lewis and Clark programs, I saw a Punch and Judy here in Shawnee, Kansas...Wonderful with a mix of old standbyes and current references....
It is fun to step out of the box...as well as stepping into a time machine box.(classic puppet bits like P & J.) This thread helped in my latest puppetry workshop for 8th Grade middle school drama students. Though I do not do "Punch", we discussed it's historical and current applications...(Family Violence, challenging views, bullying takes place in other places besides schools.../many bullying experts have kids that are mean to their siblings....) You are all appreciated by, Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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James Arnott New user London 54 Posts |
They have people that can swazzle in Rome already!
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Jolly Roger V.I.P. Sedona, Arizona 1667 Posts |
I thought this old thread was worthy of revival. Just for the record, I am a huge fan of Punch and Judy, but have still not introduced it into my shows in the USA.........but I may do so one day. Does anyone here know of any P and J workers who currently present this in the US? JR
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