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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Mentalisten New user London, UK 62 Posts |
Hmmm. Maybe that was too much packed into one little post.
Apologies
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
No.....im just tranced out reading it..
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Mentalisten New user London, UK 62 Posts |
Lol... wakey wakey, rise and shine...
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-19 11:26, Mentalisten wrote: Time to make another enemy. No BELIEF is not relevant. A person who is WILLING TO TRY is relevant. If they do not believe, but are willing to try and follow all of the directions, as things start to happen not believing can actually help the process. Save belief for church and religion, in hypnosis it is not relevant. WILLING is all you really need.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mentalisten New user London, UK 62 Posts |
Yea, I agree. If someone who has never been hypnotised is up to be hypnotised then willingness is surely important, and that is when compliance comes into it, aswell as a few naturally occuring phenomena labelled as suggestibility tests. But, for example, many subjects who have been hypnotised before truly beleive that they have been and therefore they will expect to be next time. These findings has been reported by Graham Wagstaff.
Maybe I put too much emphasis on belief - there are many cognitive processes in play to be able to reduce it to one area.
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You can not quantify belief in the first place.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
That's an interesting belief you have Danny...
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
It is, now lets try to quantify it.
You make the point perfectly thank you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mentalisten New user London, UK 62 Posts |
You believe it lots and lots. So now you probably 'expect' it never to be quanitifed, correct? You're best off arguing with the researchers with regards to quantifying the subjective.
Leave it there.
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea lets leave it there now that it is so clear LOL.
Sorry if your "belief" being incorrect sets you in such a bad state of mind.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mentalisten New user London, UK 62 Posts |
Not a bad state mind mate. Just this type of discussion is not best done on here. However, you seem a very certain and smart-minded guy. Fair play to ya.
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
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WW New user 26 Posts |
Back to Erickson... Here is my muddled recollection of an Ericksonian anecdote: He and a skeptical scientist friend were walking down the street. His friend was adamant in expressing his belief that Hypnosis was chicanery. As Erickson's friend reached his destination, they parted. But then from a few feet away, Erickson said, "One more thing" walked up to his friend and tapped him on the forehead. He immediately collapsed on the sidewalk. Even the negative discussion turned out to be an induction method.
Anyone have a fresher take on this anecdote or a source? |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea how about a source that the FRIEND quotes LOL!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WW New user 26 Posts |
As I did not originate this story, I am surprised at the sarcasm underlying this reply.
Is this forum a place to relate such pieces of history, to be believed or not, surely? But at least to be related. I am dismayed by the reception of some of my posts which have been innocent offers of anecdotal history relating to magic and hypnosis. It seems that defensive hostility is the norm here. |
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hypnoticmindreader New user 10 Posts |
I would love to know more about that story WW, It sounds very interesting, I'm studying Erickson, really wanna know if that is true, anyone else know about it?
Thanks for the post WW |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
WW what you don't seem to understand is that unsubstantiated stories then become silly legends.
Silly legends hurt our art form. Plain and simple. They are NOT HISTORY in any way. They get re remembered and embelished and pretty soon it is a 3rd grade game of telephone operator. Then what happes is people start to believe them! They start to think they are possible. They start to argue silly points. They even try to duplicate the feat. It is as when an audience remembers a magic show. They explain things that went on. Many times they don't remember exactly so they fill in the blanks. They had such a great emotional experience that they embelish on it unintentionally. Well that is great for the worker to say the least, but he could no more saw a person in half with no cabnit 100% surrounded and yada yada than he could levitate with no wires. But at least this legend is among FANS! See here is the deal. We KNOW there is a cabnit. We KNOW he wasn't 100% surrounded. So when you post anticdotal evidence of stories that are half a century old already, and can not be corroberated, well that does not advance SCIENCE. If we start to tell these silly stories to the next generation and they believe them, oh lord where do we go from there? See lets at least keep the performers themselvs grounded in reality. It will be far better for our art. Lest we go down a dangerous road.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WW New user 26 Posts |
An anecdote is just that. It does not beg for belief. Since it is not offered as fact it also does not beg for argumentation.
I was not witness to this event. I was told this anecdote by a reputable performer, but as an anecdote. It was interesting as a tale. And who, just who, are any of us to say it did not occur? I don't take that position, but it is such a common position amongst those in the know "Man will never fly", "Man will never reach the Moon", "Disease is caused by Miasma" and so on. I was life-long friends with both Ormond McGill and Arnold Furst. I doubt that they would dispute the "facts" of this anecdote, although they may not have believed the principle. What I believe this forum needs is a bit of lightness, patience, and tolerence. Hey, it was just a story. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I was that friend...
I say was because that crook went through my pockets and took my wallet. It wasn't a tap it was a punch..He used to punch the lights out of his clients.. |
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