Hey, Jonathon:

I'm one of those who thinks they're synonymous -- are they not? Each of the words possesses differing connotative senses, but their denotations are distinct? Dish!

BTW, more irritating mispronunciations (though ECK-cetera takes the cake):

"Swaller" for "swallow."

ACMP: Herbs, with an aspirated "H." Wanna drive one of us Yanks absolutely starkers? Give 'im a pot of 'erbs 'eld by a guy named Herb and ask them to explain the differing pronunciations!

How do you pronounce "AMY"?

Aaah-me
ei-me
ei-my
or
aaah-my?

I've been.. confused.

A as in HayMe with out the H.

Is this thread reminding anyone else of a movie?

"Mr. Gambini, WHAT is a 'YUTE?'"

"Sorry, Your Honour, I mean, 'Y-O-O-O-O-T-H-H-H.'"

I can't believe English is the only language with schizophrenia about it pronunciation; youse guys what speak other langwages, what about it?

Whose on first?

The essence of language does not lie in "correct" pronunciation but rather in "understandable" pronunciation. The same applies to writing. Whether it is color or colour is almost irrelevant.
Within the next few years there will be more English Speakers in India than in all the Native English speaking countries in the world. The same might also be said for China in the next 20 or so years. They learn by studying phonics and phonetics to ensure they are well understood. That is all that is necesary as there are good arguments both ways for whether it is herb ot 'erb. As long as you are well understood it is fine. Problems arise when your pronunciation confuses people as to what you are saying and your message loses its meaning. Refer here to some rap songs for example.

Disagree.

A recent study in the States found that a large number of Americans could not point out Iraq on a map and the country is at war there. Thankfully a larger number of the population can say the name of the country correctly. No need to agree.
I teach in Asia and the speed at which people learn English here is an eye-opener or it should be. According to the above reasoning if 1 Billion people in Asia can speak English in the next 50 years then certainly there pronunciation would be the correct pronunciation as they outnumber the rest of us.

I'm sure there's a logical connection between geographical ignorance and whether words have correct pronunciation; it just happens to elude me at this time.

As for the second paragraph, I specifically opposed the notion of "correct pronunciation by consensus," myself. However, that doesn't necessarily extend to "the only correctness revolves around whether one is understood."

Do you hold the same belief about spelling and grammar? If your son says, "Me and Jimmy went to the store," is that "correct," since you clearly understand what he means?

Who is the ultimate arbiter of correctness in pronunciation?

John

I am very against mispronunciation and using incorrect grammar but for good reason. Cat should never be pronounced cut for example. It is and will always be wrong.
As for "correct" pronunciation lets take a word like "Taiwan". As hard as you try you will probably not be able to say the word the correct way because it is a Chinese word and should be said using the correct tonation. Now if you say to a Chinese person "I am going to Taiwan" they will understand you regardless of the fact that you are not using the "correct" pronunciation. That is off course unless you think that English pronunciation is more important than oter languages which I do not think is true.
Should we thus argue over whether it is herb or 'erb. No, because the pronunciation is irrelevant to understanding. Compare this to "the cat is ugly" as opposed to "the cut is ugly". Mispronunciation that leads to confusion. If we were looking at a picture of a cat and someone said "the cut is ugly" I would still understand but that is purely because of the situation and it would be misunderstood in another situation.
The same applies to grammar. If I ask you "what did you do yesterday" and you respond "I go to the park" I obviously understand the meaning. That would again not hold true in another situation and therefor the study and use of correct grammar is very important.

It's EE-RUCK, and the thing is the REAL pronunciation is kind difficult because there is a "letter" non existant that comes from the back of the throat....

Thanks. It's tough to use our "letters" without also going for convenience and renaming things.

What do the non-western folks who live there call the place? Or more to the cultural issue... how do they think of that area?

[quote]On 2007-03-12 10:05, Jonathan Townsend wrote:


This is the important and interesting question. But since we don't even give a number of cities the same names as the locals, English is in a bit of a bind.

What do the locals call Copenhagen? Munich? Moscow? Certainly nothing like what we call those cities.

John

Mary B.

excelente site this link here! Tks
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

A Teles