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cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Ok guys. I need your opinion. After years of giving it a go, I think that the position of the coin in the C*****c P**m for me is a lower than I usually see it demonstrated. I find I can keep the coin in this position and practically play the piano. My question is- is there another, more advanced sleight that I might learn later where this position will hinder me?
Chris |
Matt Malinas Inner circle Transylvania 1367 Posts |
I really don't think so. I think you'll learn the muscle pass faster;)
I have a pretty low CP as well but it has never bothered me so far. -Matt
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
As long as you are using the muscles highlighted in yellow in THIS PICTURE then you are Classic Palming properly.
As an example, all four of THESE coins are in Classic Palm. As you can see those four coins are in different locations, but they are all held by the muscles in the prior illustration. These pictures are from my Classic Palm teaching in the Foundations section of http://www.coinvanish.com if you are interested in reading more on it. Dan |
Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Classic palming lower gives you better coverage to the left side (assuming you're palmming in the right hand) I say, the lower the better, but watch out for:
--excessive movement of the fingers while getting the coin into position. The farther the fingers have to reach, the more likely that there is a visible clench at the wrong moment. If you (as I do) use the third and fourth fingers to do this, rather than the second and third, the movement is minimized. You may also experience difficulty and/or angle problems on the palm-to-palm change, but this can be accomodated as well. --lack of coverage on the Malini/Kaps subtlety. Usually, there's less there to hide behind. Try it in front of a mirror and you'll see what I mean. A lot depends on the relationship of the size of the coins to the size of your hands. Have a look at the illustrations of Gary Kurtz's hands in Unexplainable Acts. He has the halves CP'd pretty deep. Moving forward (i.e. towards the fingers) would probably result in a cramped look and a "vanishing thumb". If your palming hand looks like your other hand at rest, you're probably doing things right.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Will-Ace Regular user Newark NJ 170 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-13 06:10, Curtis Kam wrote: Can You elaborate on that. Would it be on a display of the hand showing its "palm", sort of like a Reverse Malini/Kaps Sublety? Or like a Downs Palm display, where the Thumb and Base does the coverage? Wil |
eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
Whats this about the Classic Palm beeing the most basic slight ?
Most people I know find it hard to do right. (whatever right may be) |
aiturran Loyal user Santiago, Chile 260 Posts |
Maybe because most of the routines and effects in coin magic use it?
It's not basic for being the easiest, but for being the essence of coin magic, more than any other sleight. Regards, Antonio |
cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-13 00:05, Dan Watkins wrote: Ah, very helpful. Yes, My coin is in the same location as the second from the bottom one. I'll check out your site, too. Thanks! Chris |
cboscari Regular user 119 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-13 06:10, Curtis Kam wrote: This is another alteration I had to make to get it into position. That's when I started to wonder if it was going to be an issue. looks like as long as I watch myself, it should be okay. |
Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Wil,
I'm talking about coin in CP in the right hand and the hand held palm facing the floor. (i.e. the typical position) If the coin is palmed too far forward, it can be seen through the space between the index finger and thumb. I hope that's a little clearer?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Hmmm. Interesting photo. I have seen it once before long ago.
My coin is in the position of the second one from the top, more or less. That is to say, I don't really use any other muscle than my thumb. Our Norwegian coins are smaller (and thicker) than the ones in this example picture. So for me one side goes into the curl of skin at the root of the thumb and the other side just stays a little farther than at the center of the hand. Kind of digs into the skin of the center palm. I have a bit more loose skin than the hand in the photo which wrinkles up very helpfully, although I have a somewhat thinner type of hand really. I'm not concious of having any muscles to talk about in my hand at all. I can't see any. But I can palm coins without a squeezed look like this. (Ok, I realize that it is an illustration photo). I can palm 4 coins like this, but they are right on top of each other in one stack. I don't know if that is bad or not. If you haven't got this kind of muscles in your hand there is no way that you will be able to build up big lumpy muscles like this. You need to have some visible there already. Either that or use electrodes or something to train the muscles that are so small and weak that they aren't even used for this kind of work. My problem is that I cannot finger palm. THAT is what everybody calls the most basic coin sleight on earth. But not for me. I would have to curl my middle finger(s) all the way in like Spiderman or the coin is not held. I think I must be a mutant.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Noobini, why are you having to curl you fingers all the way in to finger palm? That sound more like a Ramsey.
Wes
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Wes65, I don't think I even know what a Ramsey is. But I am certain that my problem is with a Finger Palm. When I see others do it, the hand is sort of half closed with natural looking tapered fingers.
But if I hold a coin at the base of my second finger, keeping the finger straight now for measuring purposes, there is a bit of space left on the other side of the coin until the joint starts. Even on my ring finger there is some space left. I can do the palm with my ring finger only. But I think everyone would still pretty much figure out where the coin is. It looks curled up and feels awkward to me. I'm sure I can get comfortable with it with lots of practice. I haven't got a lot of coin experience. But the point is that for me, this is the most difficult palm of the ten or so grips I feel I do fairly well now. And everyone always says it is the easiest of them all.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
CDKconjurations New user Knoxville, TN 36 Posts |
On the finger palm - it is my understanding that by moving the object to be palmed lower, onto the 3rd & 4th fingers, makes gripping smaller objects easier. Also, that this position is called the Bosco Palm and was originated for the purpose of a cups and balls routine (?)... At any rate, when palming something as small as a dime (for instance), this position makes it much easier. Of course, when I need to palm a dime, which is rare, I generally do so by classic palming the coin in a lower position (closer to the heal) as discussed above.
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Yeah. I think that if the grip is changed all the way down to the pinkey, then it is no longer nesseccarily practical whenever a Finger Palm is required. So I guess it is logical that there is a different name for that position. Good to know.
Besides me being a mutant and a beginner, I am also using coins that are smaller, thicker and smoother along the edges than a US Half Dollar, which doesn't help. I think I need to go to a coin store and see what I can find as an alternative. I prefer to use local coins, but if I'm going to for instance change them into something then they wouldn't be local coins anymore anyway.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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