Dear All,

I read that the shapes on Zener ESP Cards are "free from semantic influence". I'm not too sure what that means.
Can anyone help?

With best regards,

Leeo

I would best say that I disagree with this statement. To be free from semantic influence the image would have to be without the influence of having preassigned meaning. For instance, the image of a heart, while it is an abstract image, has the preassigned meaning of pertaining to love, or the organ in the body. While there is more semantic influence in a heart than three wavy lines, I don't think the Zener cards, or any image for that matter can claim to be "free from semantic influence."

First there is the fact that the number of lines in each image associates to a number, 1,2,3,4,and 5

then individually they all have different sorts of semantic associations.

Circle: The letter O, the moon, the earth, the circle of life, cycle of nature, simplicity, the list goes on

Square: human creation, stability, math, etc..

Three wavy lines: water, aquarious

the cross or plus sign: both math and religious possibilities;

the star: a star, fertility, death, satanism, evil, etc..

And then there is the fact that the images combined are images related now to psychic testing. This is a new way to associate the images. When I use them I always start talking about Ghostbusters because this is an easy way to call to mind where people may be familiar with the cards.

Either that or I am horribly misunderstanding the meaning of semantics.

I'm in full agreement with your disagreement... they are definitely not devoid of semantic influence...

I agree 100% with the above two posts

psychologically the star and the waves are most appealing, I would imagine this is the same world wide to an extent as opposed to being culturally appealing

I think whether or not you decide that Rhine/Zener cards are without semantic influence depends on how broadly you define "semantic influence."

Any human artifact is going to have some semantic influence (SI). Humans are pattern-seeking creatures and if the ancients could see bears, dogs, and hunters in the night sky, surely you can find associations in some simple shapes.

However, I think SI in reference to Rhine/Zener cards was in comparison to playing cards, which are very redolent with multiple meanings. Spades are trump in many card games; aces and eights are the "dead man's hand"; the ace of hearts is the "suicide king" and so on.

In addition, patterns of playing cards have meanings that the Rhine/Zener cards do not. Three circles and two stars in a row are not nearly as as psychologically significant as three aces and two kings. And while three wavy lines followed by two plus signs has no more significance than three circles and two stars the aces and kings will evoke a response different from three deuces and two treys.

It is, I believe, in the sense of avoiding the stronger SI of playing card that the Rhine/Zener cards are said to be without SI.

Products that once might have been labeled "bulletproof" or "waterproof" are now more likely to be more realistically labeled "bullet resistant" or "water resistant."

So perhaps we should say that Rhine/Zener cards have less SI than playing cards.

I may be wrong, but my understanding was that Carl Zenner (also reported as being spelled Zener) tried to design his cards to be without CULTURAL BIAS. This is somewhat different than being without Semantic Influence.

Cultural bias (says Wikipedia) is the phenomenon of interpreting and judging phenomena in terms particular to one's own culture. The problem of cultural bias is central to social and human sciences, such as economics, psychology, anthropology and sociology, which have had to develop methods and theories to compensate for or eliminate cultural bias.

Don't know whether Zenner succeeded or not.

- entity

I have found that if asked to name a shape, a spectator will usually mention either the star or wavy lines. Usually it's the wavy lines.

ESPecially Best Wishes,

Chris

I once made love on the square while watching the wavy lines at the rising of the circle and the dimming of the star. I was very cross the next day. No, I don't see any semantic influence in the cards at all. It's all in your head.

I read the same thing previously but cannot remember where...its been bothering me since I first read this thread.

I guess it all depends on how strong your personal symbology is. For those of us who meet on the square on a journey to the eastern star such symbols have very significant meaning.

You can read all about the development of the Rhine / Zener symbols in an article by Rhine here:

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/rhine/start.htm

Have a look around the site - it's a very useful resource on parapsychology.

Barry

Great reference Barry. Thanks.

Just curious - does anyone know how rare or valuable an original set of Zener ESP cards from Duke University is? Mine appear to be form the late 30's /early 40's.

I paid less than $10 for my set a few years ago. They appear to be from the 40's, the box is in fair condition and the cards are in good condition.

I've seen a number of other sets sell for $25 or less, so I suspect they are not particularly rare nor valuable. I am no authority on this matter, but this is what I have observed.

-Alan

Value is determined by the buyer. List them on ebay as original Duke University Zener cards and see what you get?

Re: the original topic of this thread, I enjoyed the thoughtful answers. Even though the question posted about the value of Zener cards probably deserved its own thread, I'm glad this one was resurrected.



You mean Karl Zener was Jewish?

It said Semantic not Semetic.

Glad to resurrect this for you and thanks for the advice.