Now see, I think showing up 10 to 15 minutes early and working 30-minutes past your agreed time "when needed" is showing a willingness to go beyond and is showing you are a team player.

And yes we are being paid 50 to 100 times more than the kitchen staff (I don't know about serving staff -according to the restaurant I suppose). But that's why I'm not working in the kitchen.

I just think more than that is working for free and you're demonstrating that you are willing to work for tips.

Derrick

Having read this whole thread I'm more in line with Derrick. In any case I've rarely got time to arrive early and leave late. Of course I agree with the general principal of over delivering but if your not very careful your much appreciated over delivering becomes expected and the day you leave on time, they are actually unhappy with you. You end up having to explain yourself and come up with reasons why your leaving at what is the agreed time. Here in the UK we also don't have the benefit of much in the way of tips.

So in summary yes by all means over deliver, but not too much and not too often other wise it will be taken for granted and you will become under valued. Also leaving when there are people that want to see you can be a good thing, maybe next time they will come in the time period you are supposed to be performing. Maybe this will help the period the magician is there to be busier than any other period. Maybe them complaining they wanted to see the magician, will highlight how valuable you are.

I have the same attitude with children, the parents that give their children everything they ask for in the belief that their children will love them for it ultimately discover they lose the respect of their children.

Also personally I don't want to get into conversations where I'm being compared to the kitchen staff, I think we should be marketing ourselves on a completely different level.

But hey we are all different and there is room for both attitudes.

...agree to disagree.

No problem with that

I just want to applaud you getting $600 -$1,200 per hour.







ITS A JOKE!!!!! I get it.

I guess I'm sort of lucky with my regular gigs, there both bars with a strong bunch of 'locals'. While I don't get tips - I do get a tab that builds as the night goes on. My time being 7-9pm I normally hang around up to 30mins afterwards preforming, and then will hang around and have a drink 'socially' (and I do mean socially) with the locals who have gotten to know me, this can go till closing when the staff get involved.

I've found that this not only fits my persona (im very much a friendly person who chats to anyone) and keeps the crowd happy, lots of people miss me during my shows and the socializing gets people onside for their next visit, but gets rid of a lot of preconceived notions, and has landed me more private gigs than during 'working' time.

One word of warning to anyone that thinks of doing this - try to stay sober and just be social.....its better for everyone lol

:) Looking back, that is a bit high. Would be nice, though! I honestly don't know what a wait & kitchen staffer makes these days. I just rolled with her words without thinking about them. Makes one pause and wonder how we're perceived by the staff and managers, huh?

By the by, Mark, I just bought Bad to the Balloon II from Karl Hein as he passed through our area. Great performer! I can't wait to sit down and learn your new designs.

Patriot said:
Makes one pause and wonder how we're perceived by the staff and managers, huh?

By the by, Mark, I just bought Bad to the Balloon II from Karl Hein as he passed through our area. Great performer! I can't wait to sit down and learn your new designs.
-------------------

I personally want to be perceived as the highest paid person in the room by the staff and management. I also want them to know why .... because I produce results. It puts you on a different level with mangment and staff kind of a Customer Whisperer!!!

Good luck with the DVD, If you have any questions do not hesitate to call or e-mail me. And when your ready for number one .... you know where to buy ; )

I guess this thread pretty much shows us where we separate the guys who are in this because they like to do magic from the businessmen. Seriously, in my wildest imagination I can't agree with anyone who thinks it's "good business" to give your product or service away for free on a regular basis.

If I have the plumber over and he informs me quittin' time is 6:00, but the pipes are still leaking at 6 so he stays until 8:30 to complete the job, I think he's a great plumber -- but I still expect to pay him for an extra 2-1/2 hours for the time it took to do the job.

You have an agreement with the store. The manager who EXPECTS you to stay and compares you to kitchen help is, IMO, wrong. You are NOT an hourly employee, and you are NOT in a salaried position. Yes, you can be a "team player" but you are also an independent contractor, and as such you are under an entirely different set of expectations and rules than an employee.

I hear so many full-timers complain that the hobbyist magicians bring down the market by de-valuing their shows and undercutting prices. But people here are doing the same thing to themselves when they work for nothing and think it's good business. Man oh man, talk about having "SUCKER" tattooed to your forehead ...

I think it's pretty simple.
If your night goes long once and a while and you figure no big deal I'll throw in a litte extra time and you feel comfortable with it great.
If on a regular basis you are there a ton of extra time and not getting paid their is an issue.
Hopefully you noticed that I didn't use any specific times. Because it is all about what you are comfortable with. The big issue is that if you are feeling uncomfortable about your pay for the time you are there you need to learn to express yourself better.

Bravo. Absolutely perfect response and I agree 100%. I guarantee you that management notices who the team player is and when time comes to renew your contract, it should be a no brainer for management.

Thanks, Walter.

And, as usual, Starry has a valid argument that he cleverly(?) conceals behind a wall of insult and idea-bashing. What a shame that these individuals think they are the end-all-know-all on any topic. There are, quite simply, no 100% right-for-everyone answers to any situation. My style works for me and I believe that I am quite successful...certainly no sucker. If it doesn't work for you, Star, I respect that...and that respect should go both ways!

Why can't you simply state your rationale for how you do something without the demeaning insults and allow the rest of us to decide for ourselves what does or doesn't work best for us...in our environment...in our style...with our clients. You made some valid points...yet, I prefer my way of doing business. My way works very well for me. This does not make me...nor anyone who shares my style...a sucker and I resent your suggestion that it does.

Live and let live. Agree to disagree. It's help thy neighbor not bash him over the head until he thinks the way you do. Cut back on the caffeine, dude!

Geesh!

Sorry, Patriot, I didn't mean to insult you. It's just that am passionate about my opinions -- if I wasn't sure I was right I would post - but they are my opinons. And, of course, I don't suppose everyone will agree ... but that's a good thing, because it keeps me in business!

Fair enough.