I recently read that Nate Leipzig was one of the first magicians to use film technology to enhance his act, by showing a closeup film of his hands performing the coin roll while he did it live on stage. Does anyone know if this film survives, and who might have it or where it may be today? I don't know if Mr. Leipzig had any offspring, but he was one of 8 children, so I think it's likely he had nieces or nephews who might have descendants alive today. If the original film has survived, its condition is likely to be precarious, as it was most likely printed on the notoriously unstable nitrate film stock, and steps would have to be taken immediately to try and save it. Does anyone here know anything about what happened to this film?

I've spoken with several descendants of Leipzig's family members (including the one who would be most likely to have the material), but so far, this film does not appear to have survived the years. Leipzig had no children himself. As you're probably aware, the originals of this film were burned in a fire at the Vitagraph warehouse, so the only copy that could still exist was what Leipzig was using in his act, and even that was wearing out at the time of the fire.

There is a clip in the SAM library of Leipzig performing the coin roll from sometime in the '30s -- this was not the clip you are asking about, but rather a brief, 5 second or so clip of him hanging out at a gathering.

-Jim

Thanks, Jim. I wasn't aware of the fire, but that probably was the only other copy. It would have been a long shot anyway, since the film was certainly shot on nitrate stock rather than acetate, and if it wasn't stored in a cool, dry place it would almost certainly have disintegrated by now anyway. Even copies made on acetate would be likely to deteriorate. Nate Leipzig himself probably never thought of the film as the historic document it was, more likely thinking of it as just another prop. It's too bad, it would be a wonderful thing to see.
Don

No question about that -- the original film also included much more than just the coin roll, including billiard ball manipulations, thimble work, cards, matches, etc. It was about ten minutes of his hands doing their work. Leipzig only wanted the coin roll for use in his act.

-Jim

From what I've seen of the Leipzig coin roll, it doesn't appear to be anything different than what is commonly used now...the coin rolls across the backs of the fingers, then under the hand and back up to begin the roll again. Am I mistaken on that?

Rick

I’m sure the reason why the originator of this post brought it up was that he wanted to see the master himself perform it. It’s a shame that we can’t jump into a time machine and watch some of the greats perform.

It's not entirely clear from your description, but one important point about the way Leipzig did it was that he didn't just roll it along the backs of the fingers, but he would then turn his hand over and roll it along the inside of the fingers as well. I rarely see anyone do it that way today. Now, most just bring the coin back from the pinky to the index finger by reaching the thumb underneath the fingers and carrying it back, without rotating the hand.

-Jim

There are some videos of Leipzig around. I have references to there being 4 existing video clips of Leipzig from various sources. I, unfortunately, have not had the opportunity to view all of them at this time. The most easily accessible ones are in the SAM and Magic Circle libraries. SAM members should be able to get a copy of the one from their library, though as I mentioned earlier, it's only a few seconds long and barely worth the time if that's all you're interested in. The Magic Circle one can only be viewed on their premises, due to an agreement with the BBC (who provided the video). My understanding is that this also is a fairly short clip. The other two videos are owned by private collectors and, from what I have heard, they contain more substantial performances.

-Jim

Jim, that makes sense as to what I was missing...he added the "under the hand", in a manner of speaking...

Rick

It's more like everyone else removed the "under the hand", since Leipzig was the first to do the coin roll. (Allen Shaw likely independently invented it around the same time, but he only went along the tops of the fingers.)

-Jim

That's correct, I just thought it would be a treat to see a legend like Leipzig perform. Now that I have heard about these other clips, I'm very keen on tracking them down, just for the pleasure of seeing them.
Don

Very interesting. I may have to give that a try.

I've been doing it that way ever since I read about it in Henry Hay way back in the '70's. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else do it that way. Here's a short clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-rkvTNoDcs

Timothy

That's the way I've been doing it since I was in high school in the late '50s-early '60s. Discovered it myself by accident.

The "king" of the Coin Roll was Frank Ross who was a character in Hollywood...worked at Hollywood Magic. Frank could do the Coin Roll with four coins on each hand. I think they were $20 gold pieces. I know a film of his exists doing this because I saw it on a TV show when I was a kid. Frank told me it took him seven years to learn how to do it.

Please excuse me for bringing up this old thread but I think what I quote below is quite relevant. If you follow the this link

http://www.miraclefactory.net/mpt/view.p......s&id=129

you'll arrive at the first part of Nate Leipzig's autobiography. It is very informative and if you read it you'll find several references to the coin roll and also about this thread's topic: the coin roll film Leipzig used on the stage. It says:


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"The offices of "The Vitagraph" used to be down in Nassau street in those days, and one Sunday the boys asked me to come down to the studio. We went up on the roof of the building and Smith rigged up a black cloth with two holes in it. I posed for about fifteen minutes, my hands alone, showing my novelties of sleight of hand tricks, like the thimbles and the matches, billiard balls, cards, showing only the hands in action-especially the coin roll. The picture ran about ten minutes.

"I saw a showing of this picture a short time later, with a very novel introduction. A black space and coins floated up into the screen and formed themselves into "Nate Leipzig's" and cards came floating in forming "Wonderful Hands." Mr. Smith gave me several rolls of the film of rolling the coin, which was all I cared for, as I wanted to use that film to close my act. He even told me to have them colored the natural tint of the hand. There was a woman in Orange, N. J., who used to do all their work of that type. When I was in England, my films became nearly used up, and I sent over for more, but unfortunately, they had had a fire and my negatives were among thousands of others that had been burned."

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This fact that was mentioned previously by JimMaloney would answer the original question: the films were used up and the negatives were lost in a fire, which is a pitty, no doubt.

The other references to the coin roll as very interesting. Here's Leipzig about the origin of the coin roll:

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"Here is an instance of how one lights on new effects by accident. One day while holding a vest button in my hand (I always had something in hand to practice with) I tossed it in the air and caught it on the back of my hand, which being rounded on one side caused it to roll accidentally across my fingers. I was so surprised that I tried to do it again but with out success until I actually placed it on the back of my hand and by moving my knuckles made it roll over and over. Then I discarded the button and tried it with a five cent piece until I got quite proficient. For a long time, while sitting in a street car, I would become so engrossed in rolling the coin through my fingers that I would never notice how all the other customers were staring at me, then I'd wake up and stop, quite embarrassed. I was afraid they would think me a show-off; really I was only a youngster. Later I used larger coins, a half dollar becoming my favorite. I never dreamed what an amount of talk the flourish would create. I looked upon it then as merely a good exercise for the fingers. In later years a sleight of hand artist's repertoire was not considered complete unless he could do the coin roll or steeplechase."

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Lepzig about Allan Shaw "independently inventing" the coin roll:

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"Later that season he [Horace Goldin] came back to Detroit to play the Temple Theater and he told me to watch out for one Allan Shaw, coin manipulator, who was routed to get to Detroit in a few weeks. I had never seen a coin manipulation act and Shaw had a reputation second only to Nelson Downs, who was conceded to he the greatest of all coin manipulators. Shaw came along in due course and as I had entree back stage I saw a good deal of his work. In those days Shaw was a very good-looking boy with curly blond hair and a good complexion. His act was clean-cut and original. Booth introduced me to him and, of course, I had to do the coin roll as this was always Booth's favorite. Shaw didn't say much, in fact wasn't at all friendly after I had done a few tricks.

"A year passed and Horace Goldin returned to the Temple. The moment he saw me he said: "Leipzig, I want to tell you something. I met Allan Shaw on Broadway about a week ago and he told he had his latest original coin creation to show me. So he proceeded to do the coin roll, rolling it up and back on his knuckles as he had not mastered running it all around his hand. Goldin said he then asked him when he had been in Detroit and Shaw colored up and said he had heard there was a fellow there who was already copying the trick." We had a good laugh over that, though naturally it hurt me a little."

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Great post Marko!
Richard

Thanks, Richard. Soon I'll be needing to replace my Sympathetic Silks. I've bought twice from you those nice heavier silks you sell and used them hundreds of times!

Marko

In the movie "Dai Vernon, the spirit of magic", there is a short sequence where we can see Nate leipzig beginning his cigar and purse routine.

In the book "the Vernon touch", I read that one day at the magic castle, there was a projection of a movie where we can see leipzig. Vernon said taht he was happy that Jennings could see that.

Is anybody knowns any info about that? Maybe Jim can say something cause I known that he is a Leipzig fan.